Author Topic: Bleach Manga Discussion  (Read 218105 times)

Offline Pzc

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2009, 11:31:01 pm »
the 11 seconds he could hold his mask together for was in the real world, which like they said with bankai MUCH HARDER TO DO IN REAL WORLD
True but even so there's been at least two comments from enemies
he's fought (Grimmjow and Ulquiorra) about that he can hold his
mask together longer. Since Ulquiorra mentions it in one of the
latest chapters it may even refer to the last time they fought in
Las Noches. He's getting better at it but it's not like he mastered
it just by going to Hueco Mundo.
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Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2009, 09:08:59 am »
Ok, Ichigo just got his ass kicked in one giant sized attack. Even his cloths are half destoryed and his mask got blown apart.

Hmm, so Espada No. 4 could do this to Ichigo? How the fuck can the other captains even compare to Numbers 1-3? The only good guys with power on Ichigo's level should be the other Hybrid Hollow's cuz they are former high lev shinigami (Even 3 captains) who also have Hollow power. Im gonna be pissed off if the series keeps mocking Ichigo by having the reguler captains able to fight Espada's 1-3 on even footing. They shouldn't be able to touch those Espada's, infact they should have to run for their lives cuz the power diffrence is just silly.

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Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2009, 09:50:29 am »
Well we all know Hitsuguya will get owned in a matter of seconds by Halibel since he pretty much got destroyed by Luppi(former 6th espada who seemed to be a hell of a lot weaker than Grimmjow), but I wouldn't count out Shunsui or especially Yammamoto since we have no idea what they're capable of. 

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Offline Peggeh

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 06:14:07 pm »
Hmm *just read chapter 347*. Ichigo has gotten stronger. His hollow transformation is lasting longer.
That being said, it's alarming how long this battle has been dragged out. If Ulquiorra really is stronger (which you can tell judging by the fact that ichigo is pretty much almost dead while Ulquiorra looks like he just stepped out of a GAP ad, albeit one from your nightmares), why hasn't Ichigo been killed yet? I know he's the main character and hence can't actually die, else the show would be named....i dunno, Orihime or something...but this defies even the narrow scope of logic anime has. Why isn't Orihime healing him every two seconds? Doesn't she love him? screw his ego and get it over with!!!
 ^^;;; hmm.. that was a rant and a half....

Offline mgz

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2009, 07:53:22 pm »
Well we all know Hitsuguya will get owned in a matter of seconds by Halibel since he pretty much got destroyed by Luppi(former 6th espada who seemed to be a hell of a lot weaker than Grimmjow), but I wouldn't count out Shunsui or especially Yammamoto since we have no idea what they're capable of. 
but they also set up a thing at least in the series where it made it seem like hitsuguya could wield his bankai but hasnt mastered it.
dont know if they potrayed the same message in the manga.

And like ive said in the series thread. They have decided to give the captains superman strength styling.

Superman on occasion has trouble picking up a car, other times hes able to stop a plane crashing at full speed  or simply fling cars around with ease.


If memory serves they stated that more or less the
Gillian - took a squad of newbs to take down
Adjuchas - dont remember what was said about them
Vasto Lordes - stronger then a single captain

now making the vasto lorde class into espada they became MUCH stronger.

So unless the captain levels who were for the most part embarassed by the newly functional bankai and untamed vaizard capabilities of ichigo.

They basically make it seem as though the captains were much weaker then ichigo.

Captain commander i dont know much about. And a few other captains have had limited combat display.

AFAIK we also have limited knowledge of yoirichis full capabilities with her bankai and anything else, and uraharas.
Likewise we dont have much about any of the vaizard who are apparently all old high ranking members in the protection squads

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2009, 11:24:58 pm »
Well we all know Hitsuguya will get owned in a matter of seconds by Halibel since he pretty much got destroyed by Luppi(former 6th espada who seemed to be a hell of a lot weaker than Grimmjow), but I wouldn't count out Shunsui or especially Yammamoto since we have no idea what they're capable of. 
but they also set up a thing at least in the series where it made it seem like hitsuguya could wield his bankai but hasnt mastered it.
dont know if they potrayed the same message in the manga.

And like ive said in the series thread. They have decided to give the captains superman strength styling.

Superman on occasion has trouble picking up a car, other times hes able to stop a plane crashing at full speed  or simply fling cars around with ease.


If memory serves they stated that more or less the
Gillian - took a squad of newbs to take down
Adjuchas - dont remember what was said about them
Vasto Lordes - stronger then a single captain

now making the vasto lorde class into espada they became MUCH stronger.

So unless the captain levels who were for the most part embarassed by the newly functional bankai and untamed vaizard capabilities of ichigo.

They basically make it seem as though the captains were much weaker then ichigo.

Captain commander i dont know much about. And a few other captains have had limited combat display.

AFAIK we also have limited knowledge of yoirichis full capabilities with her bankai and anything else, and uraharas.
Likewise we dont have much about any of the vaizard who are apparently all old high ranking members in the protection squads

If we take a look at history supposingly the strongest captains were Kenpachi and Rukia's bro (With only peep above them being the commander). At least thats the impression we get alot of the time, but the sickly captain and that lazy one are the two oldest captains, so it's possible that they are the next most powerful underneith the commander. Anyway Ichigo in the space of a week made a joke of the shinigami's captains by overcoming two of their top most powerful.

That was back then, Ichigo's strength has grown by leaps and bounds once more and cannot be compared to what he was like during the whole Shinigami incident. We can actually assume that most captains are too busy to train constantly from day to day (unless u count Kenpachi who prolly just breaks the rules and does what he wants). So if we work by this idea then the level of power goes something like this

Commander > Lazy captain/Sickly captain > Rukia's bro > Kenpachi

Now, i'd have thought that the TOP captains might be able to take out the low-mid Espada, but how could they handle the most powerful ones? If they can thats all a bit ballshit saying that Vasto-Lords are more powerful then captains and now they are transformed into Espada's they're far stronger then ever. By that reckoning the Espada's should be able to MURDER every single shinigami in Bleach np.

I stick to my original opinion. The only ones with the power to kill the Espada's are Ichigo and the Vaizard. Reguler captain class shinigami are pretty much outgunned and outclassed ::) Ofc it makes no diffrence at the end of the day. NO ONE can beat Aizan cuz as we all know they have no freewill, all their actions are predetermined by Aizan AKA God ::)

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Offline relic2279

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2009, 11:39:11 pm »
You guys are forgetting Yoichi and Soi Fon. They have that special move that neither have mastered yet which looks badass. I would argue that even a punch from that would even take out kenpachi. And that is a move Soi Fon used as her final power up, even above her bankai. So that leads me to believe, along with kenpachi's show of force with no bankai, that a bankai is not the highest level attack of a captain.

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2009, 01:44:51 am »
You guys are forgetting Yoichi and Soi Fon. They have that special move that neither have mastered yet which looks badass. I would argue that even a punch from that would even take out kenpachi. And that is a move Soi Fon used as her final power up, even above her bankai. So that leads me to believe, along with kenpachi's show of force with no bankai, that a bankai is not the highest level attack of a captain.

I forget who those two are, amongst the hoards of good guys and bad guys out there =/ Refresh my memory plz?

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Offline relic2279

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2009, 01:58:15 am »
Yoichi is the cat who turns into a girl, and Soi fon is/was her apprentice with the short hair but with two long braids who has the 2 hit butterfly kill technique.

(You know what, I don't think soi fon used her bankai. I mispoke.) But that move still looked way mroe powerful then a bankai. Especially how Yoichi was treating it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 02:00:23 am by relic2279 »

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2009, 02:12:42 am »
ah. In the manga translation i've been reading they spell her name 'Yoruichi' so i didn't get it when u spelled it 'Yoichi.' Tbh i always worked under the idea that she trained up Ichigo cuz she was physically unable to defeat Byakuya. Though she could out do him in the super speed department -that much was clear- I always thought that if she could defeat Byakuya why didn't she just do it herself?

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Offline Pzc

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2009, 02:31:01 am »
ah. In the manga translation i've been reading they spell her name 'Yoruichi' so i didn't get it when u spelled it 'Yoichi.' Tbh i always worked under the idea that she trained up Ichigo cuz she was physically unable to defeat Byakuya. Though she could out do him in the super speed department -that much was clear- I always thought that if she could defeat Byakuya why didn't she just do it herself?

Other than the obvious convenience of the plot to match
Ichigo versus Byakuya against each other she may not have
wanted the attention and worse reputation than she already
had ?

There's also the Superman-problem mgz mentioned.. and
that's getting so silly it's not even funny by now, imho.
A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2009, 02:45:45 am »
I blame alot of the problems on having so many good guys. Because of the opponents that have been setup -Super baddies with powers greater then a captains- it means that anytime a peep (Non captain + lesser character) gets time in the spotlight they automatically become capable of of a 1 on 1 with some peep who should be able to kill em. I'd give Bleach alot more respect if such weaker good guys tag teamed together to topple a far stronger enemy. But alas the Bleach formula is mostly about 1 on 1's (With two exceptions i can think of kinda). Ofc at the same anytime someone says "Oh shit he's dieing! Come on lets go gang up on that baddie!" The other person spouts of alot of crap about honor, personal pride, blah, blah, blah. Fine spout your crap, but atleast kill off some good guy's for fighting people way stronger then them! Or if u really feel that attached to the chars have them get knocked out and then their buddies come in to save the day. To sum up this story, Ichigo's crew should be losing most fights cuz the enemy are bigger and meaner then them. Not every single character should be allowed to transform into a goku/Ichigo type peep to overcome insane odds ::)


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Offline furuoshiki

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2009, 04:52:09 am »
Yeah i don't think the 1-on-1 tradition will be stopping anytime soon.

But for the record I don't recall if Kenpachi had mentioned that he finally gave his Zanpaktou a name, in which case if he were able to do Bankai he would be even more powerful.

Ulquiorra may be strong but I don't think he was significantly stronger than Grimmjow, I think Ichigo winning against Grimmjow was a fluke personally. The fact that Grimmjow had to be PERSONALLY disciplined by Aizen shows that he is probably among the strongest in Los Numeros de la Espada. (excuse the proper grammar but I'm fluent in spanish :))
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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2009, 05:45:10 am »
Quote
Now, i'd have thought that the TOP captains might be able to take out the low-mid Espada, but how could they handle the most powerful ones? If they can thats all a bit ballshit saying that Vasto-Lords are more powerful then captains and now they are transformed into Espada's they're far stronger then ever. By that reckoning the Espada's should be able to MURDER every single shinigami in Bleach np.
Are any of the current Espada previously Vasto-Lordes though? Aaroniero (9) was a Menos, but he was the last of the old Espada. But Grimmjow is still clearly seen to be adjuchas before turning into an Arrancar. I was talking to a friend about this same topic, and I think he assumed that Vasto-Lorde was just some step on the way to becoming an Espada Arrancar, but given that Aaroniero is clearly just a Menos turned Arrancar, I think it's reasonable to assume that the bulk of the lower ranks were never Vasto Lordes, and perhaps none of them are.

To be honest though I'm not sure it really matters to the writer, since other than Grimmjow and Aaroniero it's never really mentioned specifically what they were prior to being Arrancar.

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 07:49:04 am »
Yeah i don't think the 1-on-1 tradition will be stopping anytime soon.

But for the record I don't recall if Kenpachi had mentioned that he finally gave his Zanpaktou a name, in which case if he were able to do Bankai he would be even more powerful.

Ulquiorra may be strong but I don't think he was significantly stronger than Grimmjow, I think Ichigo winning against Grimmjow was a fluke personally. The fact that Grimmjow had to be PERSONALLY disciplined by Aizen shows that he is probably among the strongest in Los Numeros de la Espada. (excuse the proper grammar but I'm fluent in spanish :))

1. If Kenpachi ever unlocked his swords powers and achived Bankai then he'd be prolly the strongest amongst the good guys. But it's very safe to assume that he hasn't what so ever. Same old Kenpachi, just alot of ballshit mixed in about him being able to beat Espada No 5. How could he do that if we're to believe Bankai Ichigo in Hollow form could not? For the record a fight between the current Kenpachi and Ichigo would be a battle between SSJ Vegeta Vs SSJ3 Goku. He'd get murdered :D

2. Ulquiorra is FAR stronger then Grimmjow. In hollow form Ichigo was equal too Grimmjow, where as Ulquiorra, he pretty much is helpless as things stand right now.

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Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 05:48:27 pm »
Ulquiorra may be strong but I don't think he was significantly stronger than Grimmjow, I think Ichigo winning against Grimmjow was a fluke personally. The fact that Grimmjow had to be PERSONALLY disciplined by Aizen shows that he is probably among the strongest in Los Numeros de la Espada. (excuse the proper grammar but I'm fluent in spanish :))

Ichigo seemed much stronger than Grimmjow for the most part during the fight.  The biggest example of this was when he caught Grimmjow's hand and then sliced his ass up.  He could have probably killed him right then and there if he wanted to, but didn't because his intent was to never kill him in the first place probably because he was enjoying the fight.  You also have to factor in Ichigo's unstable power with his hollow transformation because he still can't hold it for very long and has to continuously replace parts of the mask.....so this may have made it closer than it actually was.

Also Ulquiorra seems leaps and bounds stronger than Grimmjow, considering how badly he is raping Ichigo ATM.

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Offline Pzc

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2009, 06:25:24 pm »
The fact that Grimmjow had to be PERSONALLY disciplined by Aizen shows that he is probably among the strongest in Los Numeros de la Espada.

Except that Tousen cut off his arm and wanted to execute
him for his little excursion to the human world. I don't know
how strong Tousen is but he had some confidence at least.
A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2009, 06:42:17 pm »
Oh, that. It's become clear to me that SOMEHOW both of Aizan's human buddies have been made godlike powerful during the course of his rise to power. Grimmjow ain't frightend of Tousen because of the authority that Aizan has given him. He's scared of whatever overwhelming power that he's been installed with.

I think we just have to face the fact that this is NOT the same Tousen and closed eye sly guy (Whats his name) that we remember from the whole Shinigami saga earlier on.

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Offline vicious796

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2009, 08:15:20 pm »
Gin? This manga is starting to annoy me like Naruto. Drag the fight on to the same stereotypical ending that we all know is coming.


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Offline Pzc

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2009, 02:56:16 am »
Gin? This manga is starting to annoy me like Naruto. Drag the fight on to the same stereotypical ending that we all know is coming.

Indeed, I agree. Lots of details is one thing but dragging
out every single attack over one or two chapters is kinda
overdoing it..

I have my own hopes for how this will end but that aint
gonna happen.
A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. -- Friedrich Nietzsche