Author Topic: Bleach Manga Discussion  (Read 218868 times)

Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2009, 07:47:41 am »
I'm with Steve Basnof, I'm not really seeing any obvious signs of decapitation. I think perhaps people were looking at the lines defining the shape of his neck and ignoring the one defining the outline of his collar and the start of his neck. There's blood flying around, but it's all behind him. If his neck got popped off presumably blood wouldn't be spraying in an arc backwards. It also seems to completely go against the focus of the attack's buildup, namely, the gigantic hole now in his chest.

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2009, 08:11:50 am »
If the cut did come from the back originally, that's where the initial spray of blood would go.  Also, unless you literally are right next to the screen(I Just checked) you'll notice the initial lining of the back of his neck is very hard to determine from a distance.  From literally 2-3 feet away it looks like to me that his neck line below the tail and above the tail don't match up(which caused me to think decapitation).....but up close(inches) you can tell that the line curves in and is being overlapped by what looks like blood squirting out which looks like another line all the way up to the tail with a very tiny break right b4 it reaches.

Here's the part that confused me(outlined in a crude MS paint based circle):
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Notice the black mark overlapping his neckline below the tail and how it makes it look uneven compared to the line above the tail.  That mark also happens to start at the exact spot where his neck curves in.  Edit: wish photobucket didn't resize my image >_<
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 08:29:36 am by beezer08 »

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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2009, 09:24:10 am »
I run at a fairly low resolution, 1280x1024, but I could tell something was wrapped around his neck from about 10 feet away, just viewing the page on onemanga.

I though it might be a matter of context, and while I can't see how you could assume that his tail (or some mysterious foreign object) removed his head when it's clearly shown levitating him several feet off the ground while he charges his cero blast in the previous page, I asked a friend to look at just the last page, asking him specifically if he thought the person on the page had been decapitated. He responded not really, and added "it looks like he's wearing a neckerchief". So even without knowing what the thing was, he could tell something was wrapped around his neck.

I'm just not seeing what you think cut his head off. I'll concede that the neck to back line might be hard to see at a higher resolution, but at the same time there isn't anything to indicate any of the other lines defining his neck have become separated from his body. Further, ignoring what the tail was doing in the previous page, why would he decapitate Ichigo from the back, given that it would be cutting TOWARDS himself? Why charge a cero if you're just going to remove his head? It's certainly not the most detailed or clear artwork, but seeing a decapitation in there seems to require some magiceye skills I don't seem to have.

edit:
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« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 09:50:12 am by zherok »

Offline Steve Basnof

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2009, 05:10:26 pm »
The neck line doesn't "match up" above and below the neck because that's the muscle part of the neck starting to turn out towards the shoulders. Right near the tail though the neck does start to go straight and follows the same line as the part above the neck.

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2009, 06:54:53 pm »
The neck line doesn't "match up" above and below the neck because that's the muscle part of the neck starting to turn out towards the shoulders. Right near the tail though the neck does start to go straight and follows the same line as the part above the neck.

Neither you nor Zherok read my post completely did you, because if you did we wouldn't be continuing this absurd argument.  Why absurd you ask?  You both(mostly zherok) are trying to argue that my initial perception(also called an opinion) of an image is somehow unimaginable or completely wrong when the notion of a perception is entirely subjective.  The image isn't cut and dry to myself and others here, which is where the confusion came in.  Just because you didn't see what I saw, doesn't make my initial perception of the image wrong or stupid.....because it isn't perfectly clear.  If it was, it would have taken less than 11 posts(not including mine) for someone to think otherwise...and even then Pzc used the statement, "upon closer inspection".  There wasn't a general consensus even after he posted that either.  We all obviously know a week later that I was completely wrong, so its easy for you to back up your claim now.....but when that chapter came out it wasn't as easy because it obviously wasn't very clear. 

Now going back to the part you both obviously didn't read.  I'm talking about this black mark that is located where the curve of the shoulder going into his neck is, which I've now pointed out better:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Hopefully you can read that, but this is where my confusion came in.  Just reference it to the larger image if you can't see where I'm pointing exactly(damn you photobucket!)  I also wasn't thinking about why he would have decapitated him and shot a whole in his chest or why he did it that way either, my thought was "OMG OVERKILL!!!!" at the time. 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 07:15:27 pm by beezer08 »

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Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2009, 07:21:47 pm »
It'd actually be damn funny if it turned out that Ichigo had been decapitated and had a giant hole in his chest. Dunno about you lot but i'd count that as pretty much a lost cause if he was =P Only going back in time or the dragonballs could bring him back to life if this was the case :D

But there's a fresh idea......killing off the main character of a manga...permenently ;D U have to admit it would be a frist to see a main such as Ichigo die off half way through the manga =P

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Offline Pzc

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2009, 07:47:18 pm »
In bleach 349..

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Offline Nikran

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2009, 08:25:48 pm »
he's already blond, it would never work ::)

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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2009, 12:04:33 am »
Neither you nor Zherok read my post completely did you, because if you did we wouldn't be continuing this absurd argument.
I think it's more absurd to start claiming "you're not letting me have my opinion!" as a defense. I'll quote:

"I'm with Steve Basnof, I'm not really seeing any obvious signs of decapitation." "I though it might be a matter of context, and while I can't see how you could assume that his tail..." "I'm just not seeing what you think cut his head off. "

Not once did I state your opinion was wrong or stupid, but I said multiple times that I wasn't seeing what you were seeing. The fact that perceptions are unique and subjective is sorta "no shit," but really, no one denied you your ability to have one, only that (at least personally) I couldn't see what you were looking at.  As for 349, I at least never mentioned it, so I don't think it weakens my argument at all. Additionally, I did ask someone to only look at the last page of 348. It wasn't for lack of trying that I couldn't see it.

Quote
Now going back to the part you both obviously didn't read.  I'm talking about this black mark that is located where the curve of the shoulder going into his neck is
In the full size version, there is a white space separating the two objects. It's clearer to see what you're looking at in the reduced and focused version, this version however removes most of the white space and blurs the lines together. But even when pumping my resolution up to 1600x1200, I could still follow the outline of his back running from his neck line, separate from the black mark with the page at normal size at onemanga.

Given how much you're willing to defend your perception, I have to wonder why you wouldn't have just zoomed in on the image to look at it closer if it were really that much in doubt. =/

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2009, 12:55:09 am »
Dude, the whole thing was the argument that you couldn't see what I and other users saw here.  In other words, you stated that you didn't agree with our assessment and then picked apart why my initial view of the image was wrong after I tried to explain why I probably thought that way.......how is that not absurd and completely useless????.  Of course my assessment was wrong, WE ALL KNOW THAT....but why should it matter? Personally I could care less what you, steve, or your friend saw initially compared to me....because the whole issue has no bearing on the story in the first place. 

All I did was explain what I thought I saw and why I may have thought this way and nothing more.  You yourself explained it wasn't very clear, so why continue this?  And why spin this to make it seem like I'm wrongfully shielding myself behind the basis of an opinion when the whole thing is completely subjective in the first place?  You aren't making any sense. 

Also, why would I study the image when I was sure that he had been decapitated?  Of course it made me wonder a week later when I was wrong....but I still didn't even notice the neck line issue till literally after your first comment.  The fact that I'm now bringing up the issue of perception has nothing to do with that, it has to do with your comment and yours alone.  Your initial comment was completely fine, but your second one with the "magic eye skills" comment and the fact that you literally got a third unbiased opinion to prove that mine was part of the minority was a little uncalled for in my eyes.  You may have not intended it to come off that way, but it seems like to me you took something completely minor too far.  Maybe you were just trying to explain it to me further or something....but I obviously figured out my mistake before your second post that I felt went a tad over the top.   

Jeez, this is getting more ridiculous than the argument I had with Tatsujin over FFVII's greatness....with a much more useless starting point. >_> But once again, my initial assessment was wrong....what more do you want me to say?   ::)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:28:39 am by beezer08 »

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Offline relic2279

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2009, 01:25:21 am »
than the argument I had with Tatsujin over FFVII's greatness....with a much more useless starting point.

FF7 greatness should never be questioned. I was 18 or 19 and bought it the day it came out, At that point in time, no other game even came close to story line and gameplay. It's a classic. Someone wouldn't get it unless they had lived it. Somewhat like taking the lord of the rings movies (special effects and all) and dropping them into the mid 80's. It was ahead of it's time.

But ontopic:
Seems Ichigo's alter ego finally got his chance he warned about. With his hair growing longer, I'm assuming that means something, maybe he will have full control. I'm curious as to how this plays out.

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2009, 01:31:28 am »
FF7 greatness should never be questioned. I was 18 or 19 and bought it the day it came out, At that point in time, no other game even came close to story line and gameplay. It's a classic. Someone wouldn't get it unless they had lived it. Somewhat like taking the lord of the rings movies (special effects and all) and dropping them into the mid 80's. It was ahead of it's time.

Don't get me started on this too. :D  The game is great, but not the greatest of all time IMO......I don't even think its the best in the FF series(its 2nd or 3rd IMO).

Seems Ichigo's alter ego finally got his chance he warned about. With his hair growing longer, I'm assuming that means something, maybe he will have full control. I'm curious as to how this plays out.

Me too.  I don't think they can use the same excuse as last time(that his alter ego is stronger when he has control) because Ichigo beat him....so either full control or zero control from neither of them seems likely.  IDK, we really don't know much about the Vaizards in the first place anyway....and Ichigo himself can't really use his power correctly because if he did he would already be firing ceros left and right.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:37:54 am by beezer08 »

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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2009, 01:37:31 am »
I was attempting to figure out how you came to the conclusion you did, because, given the various details I pointed out, it didn't make sense to me. Indeed, it took the image being crushed and specifically pointed out with to even sort of see it for myself. I'm terrible at magic eye puzzles, so I figured the parallel, something I wasn't able to see, fit. I'll admit it's use could be construed as potentially offensive, but it wasn't like I was denying that *I* wasn't getting it. I asked a third person because I figured maybe removing what I knew from the equation would make it more obvious. And the person I asked didn't help in that regard.

Pretty much, once I followed the neckline from the ear down, and knew it was a tail (or at least, something wrapped around his neck) there was enough definition to make identifying what you were seeing as near impossible until it was explicitly pointed out.

As for FF7, I'll just say I enjoy the gameplay, and I think it's one of the best FF games in terms of that (although I like tactics more). Honestly the story does not impress me the way some fans seem to build it up as.

On track, 349 seems to be definitely upping the ante in terms of "oh shit!" I can definitely say I'm looking forward to 350. I have a feeling none of the injuries are going to have any permanence or long lasting effects though. And if they don't, it seems like it would sort of further devolve Orihime's role further into a prop, rather than a character. She was already essentially Princess Peach even with the revelation of her powers. =/
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:45:55 am by zherok »

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2009, 01:44:28 am »
OK, cool....glad that's over. 

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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2009, 02:11:47 am »
But there's a fresh idea......killing off the main character of a manga...permenently ;D U have to admit it would be a frist to see a main such as Ichigo die off half way through the manga =P
I think it'd honestly have been cool if Orihime did something productive for a change as opposed to Ichigo being the inevitable pickup point. It'd be a nice change of pace from her playing the role of the raving frantic female and deus ex machina healerbot.

As for killing off Ichigo in particular, it'd certainly be a huge shift, but at this point is there anyone developed enough to carry the lead role? Almost all the other major characters exist to propel the story along in relation to Ichigo.

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2009, 02:38:23 am »
As for killing off Ichigo in particular, it'd certainly be a huge shift, but at this point is there anyone developed enough to carry the lead role? Almost all the other major characters exist to propel the story along in relation to Ichigo.

Yep, pretty much the whole story revolves around him and everyone else is kind of a minor character.  Sure they get their screen time in, but most of the time they never affect the story in any major way by their own intention(being kidnapped doesn't count).  Pair that with the fact that his immediate friends are complete weaklings compared to him and you have a series that would fall apart completely without the main character being in it.  If you think about it, almost every Shounen action anime/manga is like this.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 02:43:36 am by beezer08 »

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Offline zherok

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2009, 02:47:08 am »
Yeah, ensemble casts aren't terribly common. And it's disappointing in this case, I think someone like Ishida has enough potential to become more than filler fight potential. Orihime too, given how big a deal they made her powers out to be. But she's relegated entirely to immobile plot point or, again, deus ex machina to explain away removal of injuries.

Renji and Chad on the other hand I think pretty much irrevocably lost to being used to build up villains. It's a bit hard to take even that seriously when they haven't won anything on their own without getting flattened shortly afterward. Chad at least has had some recent progression in terms of well, power growth, but Renji seems to have capped out somewhere around like... Arc 2? He could get bumped off I think without losing anything.

Offline beezer08

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2009, 03:13:49 am »
Now that I think about it, this is exactly why a show like One Piece is so much better than Naruto and Bleach IMO.  In One Piece all characters are fleshed out, interesting and very entertaining, are relatively strong compared to the main character, and compliment Luffy instead of just being support/an extra.  Heck the characters are so good in the show, I actually love the filler episodes because they make them work.  Each and every one of them also grow consistently in one way or another in terms of strength and overall character.  The story also doesn't completely revolve around Luffy either.....which is another reason why its so good. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:18:41 am by beezer08 »

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Offline Forte Grazia

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2009, 03:28:22 am »
In One Piece all characters are fleshed out, interesting and very entertaining, are relatively strong compared to the main character, and compliment Luffy instead of just being support/an extra.  Heck the characters are so good in the show, I actually love the filler episodes because they make them work. 

The greatness that is One Piece is in the fact that you not only get an in-depth history of some of the minor characters (unlike Bleach or Naruto which merely teases you with brief synopsis of the supporting character's history, imo) but it feels okay to like a supporting character more than the main character. And frankly Luffy is a bit more personable than Ichigo. Also if someone said they liked Usop I could accept that, while if someone said they liked Ishida I would call them gay (LOL).

Each and every one of them also grow consistently in one way or another in terms of strength and overall character.  The story also doesn't completely revolve around Luffy either.....which is another reason why its so good.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH BLEACH IS THAT THE ENTIRE PLOT SEEMS TO REVOLVE AROUND ICHIGO AND HOW ORIHIME SO DESPERATELY WANTS TO RIDE HIS PENIS BUT CANNOT BECAUSE RUKIA HAS GOT TEH SHIT ON LOCK???? 

KL;AFGKL;FGJ;ALFJSDF!!!!!! ???

Orihime: ICHIGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Orihime: NOOOO???!!!!!! WHAT DO I DOOOOOOOO? ULQUIE JUST SHOT A HOLE IN MY BABY'S CHEST?!!!!!! ZOMG!

JON: SHUT THE FUCK UP AND JUST HEAL HIM BITCH!

Orihime: Okies....  :'(

Ishida: Who are you man?

JON: DOG DON'T MAKE ME POP MY GLOCK IN YOUR DOME!

Ishida: Um okay.

Seems Ichigo's alter ego finally got his chance he warned about. With his hair growing longer, I'm assuming that means something, maybe he will have full control. I'm curious as to how this plays out.

All thanks to the fact that Ichigo is a weak bitch who instead of saving Orihime and getting the fuck out of there felt the need to get a one up on Grimmjow Jagger Jackass and fight Ulquiorra at full strength.

This is what you get when you mess with the best.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:58:24 am by Forte Grazia »

Offline Sakura588

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Re: Bleach Manga Discussion
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2009, 05:24:11 pm »
This thread is now about DBZ  ::) ::) ::)

So he seriously just gets up like the hole in his chest is nothing (well, given the situation and his form, that hole is natural...)

Ichigo = Frieza then?

Anyways, back on the topic regarding the manga...
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