Author Topic: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT  (Read 10343 times)

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« on: March 05, 2010, 11:48:49 pm »
I've found (TV) raws for the first season of Pokemon. I'm planning to do a bit of audio magic and make the first complete dual-audio release of this series. Additionally, Southrop has graciously volunteered to do translation for this project, effectively making it a fansub. Most existing fansubs are of debatable video (and sub) quality, and can't be easily fixed, as they are hardsubbed.

Here's some more detailed info from the original thread:
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
I plan to offer the final batch release exclusively on BakaBT, so I would like some input from the staff and encoders for Box Fansubs as to how I should handle some things:
  • Transcoding- is uniform codec usage more/less important than video quality? What about framerate?*
  • Some files are missing the OP&ED, and thus probably the recap as well. Is this a problem?
  • The animation technology is somewhat primitave by our standards, so scene changes have visible marks. This is possibly fixable, but an extremely involved process, requiring a large amount of storage space. I'd rather not, but I may be persuaded otherwise.
*When I transcode for purposes unrelated to filesize, I use the same output bitrate as the input.

Thoughts?

Offline codex0nz

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 06:36:25 am »
Oh wow, this would be a huge project but hot damn it would be amazing o-o;

For framerates, figure out what is going on and restore it to 24 where possible.
Sig removed, broke rules.

Offline Southrop

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 5249
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 10:04:22 am »
Out of curiosity, crossed, how do you plan on tagging the final releases?

Offline gamera67

  • Box Fansubs
  • Member
  • Posts: 604
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 04:33:14 pm »
I would rather work on spt layzner or heavy metal l gaim or a classic quality anime over pokemon.

Offline theprophet9

  • Member
  • Posts: 86
  • Proud Aussie
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 02:37:37 am »
Pokemon deserves a good release which is uncensored. I really like obscure anime but the 4kids version of Pokemon deserves a fansub of some sort.

Make A Realistic Wish Foundation: Why go to any trouble, when they\'re just gonna die anyway - The Chaser\'s War On Everything

Offline Takeshi

  • Member
  • Posts: 5677
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 02:58:23 am »
Uncensored? Please elaborate. Pokemon hardly needs to be cut.

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 06:07:21 pm »
Out of curiosity, crossed, how do you plan on tagging the final releases?
Do you mean internal matroska tags, or actual filenames?
For matroska tags, I would have the episode title as the internal track name for the video stream. Filenames would be something like '[LASI]Pocket Monsters 01 (dual-audio)[XXCRCXXX].mkv
We could always discuss otherwise though, nothing's set in stone at this point.

Uncensored? Please elaborate. Pokemon hardly needs to be cut.
This is a bit of a moot point really. 3 episodes were cut from the Indigo League arc. Episode 18 featured James entering a swimsuit contest with inflatable breasts; it aired once in English and was cut after that. Episode 35 is where Ash goes to the Safari Zone and catches a bunch of Tauros, the Game Warden likes to point guns around and this was deemed too graphic for American television, and dropped before airing. And of course, the infamous Episode 38 that caused seizures in Japanese children because of the bright flashing lights. One airing and it was completely erased from the canon. (obviously I'll add a photo-sensitive seizure warning at the beginning) Other than those 3, I don't think 4kids made any other edits to the series.

For framerates, figure out what is going on and restore it to 24 where possible.
So, to be clear; I should re-encode the non-standard frame rates to 23.97, but leave the good ones alone.
I suppose I should post my example tanscode for the framerate fix:
Original: http://www.mediafire.com/?kwnw0mzt2m5
Transcode: http://www.mediafire.com/?ugyhndwynuy
Is there any noticeable difference?

I would rather work on spt layzner or heavy metal l gaim or a classic quality anime over pokemon.
I'm not asking Box Fansubs to work on this, I'm just looking for pointers on how you guys would handle these issues. I don't want the mods to have any transgressions about my final products.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 06:15:31 pm by crossed »

Offline JerkFaceBand

  • Member
  • Posts: 114
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2010, 05:59:02 pm »
Good luck in getting this done, I'm interested to see how it turns out. I saw the original run...god I was like 10 or something. I thought it was done it 30 frames per second, no? Season 1 was probably the most faithfully adapted season compared to what I've heard and remember from watching. I've never seen the show in its original format, so I have one question: Did they realy have the pokemon using thier species name as thier way of comunicating or did they have some kind of animal noise? after the first season I watched infrequently just because it was so damn annoying hearing "pika, pikapika, piiiiikaaachuuuuu!" all the time.

Offline Pierre Luc

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 06:26:30 am »
I will say a few things, and maybe come back once I've understood a few other things

Okay, I'm running some test encodes using just the OP.
Right now, I only plan on re-encoding the eps encoded with Windows Media Video 9, since these are exceedingly huge files. (250+MB). Obviously, h.264 is the preferred codec, but what should I do about framerates? The WMV9 videos are 119.88fps. Some of the others (FFmpeg MPEG-4) are 30fps. The only ones that seem to be the correct framerate are the DivX v5.
Should I be correcting framerates when I re-encode, or leave it alone.
The FFmpeg 30fps videos seem to have cut out the OP/ED, shouldn't be an issue if I can figure out ordered chapters. Although, I believe that would mean the recap is missing as well, not sure if that's quite as critical here, since this is intended for watching in order, rather than on TV one ep. per week.
Obviously the frame-rate is 30fps (29.970)
it may say 119.88fps on the header because your video is 2 I-frames 1 B-frame and 1 P-frame per Picture Group = 119 frames a second or 30 'Pictures' a second
I can answer any questions you have on that subject if you'd at least show me an analysis of the videos. As for what frame rate to use, you might find a 2:3 field blend in the videos although I recently saw Pokemon on CN and it was noticeably 60 interlaced fields per second. So either way I think you should leave the frame-rate alone.

But I got to say:
Why make a project out of something you didn't rip when it can probably so easily be obtained on DVD? Just aint right.

Transcoding a previously compressed Windows Media Video 9(WMV3) to H.264 AVC(guessing x264 is what you're using, I'll check your links) does horrible for PSNR value. I would never do that. Better to just leave it alone, trust me on that. Their are already several WMV and MS-MPEG4v1/v2 on Bakabt.

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 05:31:02 am »
I will say a few things, and maybe come back once I've understood a few other things

I can answer any questions you have on that subject if you'd at least show me an analysis of the videos. As for what frame rate to use, you might find a 2:3 field blend in the videos although I recently saw Pokemon on CN and it was noticeably 60 interlaced fields per second. So either way I think you should leave the frame-rate alone.
What exactly do you need for an "analysis" if I may ask? I'm talking about Japanese TV raws here, not any sort of American re-frame or whatever they do.

Quote
But I got to say:
Why make a project out of something you didn't rip when it can probably so easily be obtained on DVD? Just aint right.

Transcoding a previously compressed Windows Media Video 9(WMV3) to H.264 AVC(guessing x264 is what you're using, I'll check your links) does horrible for PSNR value. I would never do that. Better to just leave it alone, trust me on that. Their are already several WMV and MS-MPEG4v1/v2 on Bakabt.
Well, there's many reason why I'm using TV source for this, mainly there never was and never will be a DVD source for episode 38. It was completely erased from the canon after 1 airing. In addition, the rest isn't easily obtainable on DVD. The "complete" arc would cost upwards of $80 on Amazon for English dub only. This is (mainly) a sub project, and I don't have $80 anyway, nor a credit card to use on Amazon. Plus, there's 83 total episodes in the original arc, but the DVDs only go to 79. I have been unable to find any isos of the DVDs I'd need.

As for the WMV thing, the episodes are encoded with Windows Media Video 9, but are in an avi container, and file sizes range from 250-450MB.
More importantly though, how are the sample videos?

Offline arromdee

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 06:58:43 pm »
I believe that Pokemon-Originals actually took the American DVDs and combined the video with the Japanese soundtrack and the openings and endings.

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 09:54:33 pm »
I believe that Pokemon-Originals actually took the American DVDs and combined the video with the Japanese soundtrack and the openings and endings.
Are they hard or soft subs, and are they any good?

This is a bit of a moot point really. 3 episodes were cut from the Indigo League arc. Episode 18 featured James entering a swimsuit contest with inflatable breasts; it aired once in English and was cut after that. Episode 35 is where Ash goes to the Safari Zone and catches a bunch of Tauros, the Game Warden likes to point guns around and this was deemed too graphic for American television, and dropped before airing. And of course, the infamous Episode 38 that caused seizures in Japanese children because of the bright flashing lights. One airing and it was completely erased from the canon. (obviously I'll add a photo-sensitive seizure warning at the beginning) Other than those 3, I don't think 4kids made any other edits to the series.
Correcting myself here: The swimsuit episode aired in 2000, with the inflatible breasts scene removed. This causes story problems by the fact that Ekans and Koffing appear on stage as an entry, yet they are not paired with a trainer, as previous entries do. Of course, that's not something that the viewers for which it was edited would notice.

Offline Southrop

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 5249
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 12:27:30 pm »
I believe that Pokemon-Originals actually took the American DVDs and combined the video with the Japanese soundtrack and the openings and endings.
Are they hard or soft subs, and are they any good?
I don't think they ever got very far with those.

Offline Southrop

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 5249
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2010, 05:17:55 pm »
Found this: http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=109902

edit:
Asian DVD Club has quite a few unseeded volumes of the R1 DVDs.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2010, 04:08:24 am by Southrop »

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 04:33:48 am »
Found this: http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=109902

edit:
Asian DVD Club has quite a few unseeded volumes of the R1 DVDs.
Downloading the first 5 eps, now. We'll see if this is much better than my current raws. Additionally, this opens up the possibility of subbing the Orange League, which would be helpful for something else I'm working on. But first things first, we need to defeat the Indigo Leage before we can move on.

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2010, 02:00:09 am »
Well, turns out that torrent is the source for all the HQ files in the torrent I downloaded. Apparently it took 3 whole months for that one to be distributed, so whoever made the other one must have included the ones that were fully distributed and used LQ ones for the rest. Thanks for finding this, as the quality of the LQ eps is about on par with Chinese rmvb hardsubs. This eliminates the issue of whether or not to transcode the LQ files; I'm just going to toss them in favor of the ones you found.

Offline Southrop

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 5249
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 03:41:15 am »
Awesome. I might actually get started on the translations...

Offline Area88

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 446
  • AnimeClassicReviews.com
    • Anime Classic Reviews
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2010, 08:44:22 pm »
Good luck guys! Feel free to promote your project inside this forum :)

I used to be a big pokemon fan in my early teens so I will defintly support you. Let me know if you start subbing, I wouldn't mind helping out.

Offline Southrop

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 5249
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 01:46:13 am »
Would be great if I could motivate myself to translate ep 1 now >_<

That aside, I'm not sure if crossed still wants help with the encoding.

Offline crossed

  • Member
  • Posts: 214
    • LASI media productions imageboard
Re: Pokemon S1- external project for BBT
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 03:58:39 pm »
Would be great if I could motivate myself to translate ep 1 now >_<

That aside, I'm not sure if crossed still wants help with the encoding.
since I've got the entire season in one source format, that eliminates most of the encoding questions on my end. I can't do sub timing though, so if Southrop needs help with that, I'm useless.