Author Topic: Bleach  (Read 4623 times)

Offline kuchikirukia

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Bleach
« on: September 27, 2014, 05:55:44 pm »
Ok, after two days of work I think I finally have my filters down to get a good picture from these R2J's.  (I haven't done an encode since 2000, so I had a little reading to do.)  So, before I continue on with project that will probably take me a couple months, I thought I'd get some opinions on where I am.

Here's a torrent with mine, KAA's, and Zero-HP's Bleach episode 1 if you want to grab them.  It ain't fiber, but I have 1MB/s up so it shouldn't take forever:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=82580572957965413855
You can probably skip downloading the Zero-HP one unless you want to see what "unwatchable" is.

Screenshots between mine and KAA: (I'll upload more after I get some sleep.  I've been at this all night)
http://compare.bakashots.me/compare.php?setId=905&comparisonId=6230&imageNum=1
I resized mine from its anamorphic to save your sanity.

KAA's is generally an amazing improvement over source (which is fuzzy with horrendous ringing), but it suffers from banding, and I think they went overboard on some temporal noise filter as the detail in some scenes is really muddy.  (In episode 17 it starts to rain in an emotional moment.  You can barely see a drop in KAA, while in Zero-HP the rain actually has depth)  Since the series especially needs some attention beyond KAA's season 1 only release, I thought I'd make a go of whatever R2J's I can find.  (I have seasons 1-3 and 13 so far.)

Anyway, this is Constant Quality crf=14 Hi10P, with Undot, MosquitoNR, Edgecleaner, Msharpen, LimitedSharpenFaster, and Dehalo_alpha.  Audio is LAME V1 from PCM.  I used KAA's subs.


« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 06:00:14 pm by kuchikirukia »

Offline Shreevatsa

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 01:27:40 am »
Colors & details definitely look better than every encode you can find on the net. :yes:
BTW what is the average file size of the encodes?
Oh, nevermind. I just saw 208 MB on the torrent.
I'm Currently downloading only your encode from the torrent.
It is now complete.
It's very good for it's file size with no overbloating, no dual audio & no ridiculous upscale either. I think it is a perfect encode in every way.
BTW, It'd be great if you restyle KAA's styling, their styling is horrible. Here's a guide which could help - http://underwater.nyaatorrents.org/?view=why-do-so-many-groups-fail-at-styling.
& use the Creditless OP/ED's (ISO's are available on ADC as Bleach the Best DVD's). :)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 03:52:21 am by Shreevatsa »

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 09:03:46 am »
Ok, I'm lost as to how to change the subs.  In Aegisub, every time I try to change the style for just the dialogue it loses KAA's styling on everything.

Grabbing the creditless DVD.  I guess I'm going to have to learn how to stitch chapters together now.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 04:39:05 pm by kuchikirukia »

Offline Krudda

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 12:42:04 am »
Encode the video without the credits, encode the credits, use mmg to select the credits, and append the episode then append the end credits.

You could also make ordered chapters, to cut Filesize without losing any video or quality. Would be very handy on somethingblike Bleach.

Offline mastrboy

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 09:21:23 pm »
Indeed, do us all a favor and use ordered chapters/segment linking... It might seem complex and advanced for a beginner, but there's not that much effort needed to understand how they work...

These links should be enough to get you going:
http://mod16.org/hurfdurf/?p=8
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=66444
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2609442#post2609442
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:23:24 pm by mastrboy »

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 07:56:05 am »
Okey dokey, after figuring out I needed blank subtitles in the OP and ED to make it work, I think I got it.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=20564350803313115064

I used the OP off the R2J's since it was higher quality.

E: Oh no, I just found FastLineDarkenMOD.  There goes my weekend.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 10:50:57 am by kuchikirukia »

Online der richter

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2014, 02:34:48 pm »
E: Oh no, I just found FastLineDarkenMOD.  There goes my weekend.

please no. also instead of Lame/mp3 use a good audio codec like AAC.

Offline Krudda

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2014, 03:03:16 pm »
I just noticed they said the audio was from PCM.
I highly doubt Bleach was released with LPCM audio.

Offline herki

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2014, 03:20:29 pm »
They do have LCPM audio from what I can see.

Also, the recommended audio encoder is qaac.

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 02:24:37 am »
please no.

Yeah, it wasn't set up right to do what I wanted.  I wanted a little more definition in the scenes whose lines were done in eyebrow pencil on construction paper, but that script is written as "the darker it is, the darker we make it," so making it strong enough to improve faded lines ruined everything else.  There should be a way to reverse it by changing a sign or flipping something around, but I can't quite see where.
So I'm back to just deblocking/denoising/sharpening/dehaloing/antialiasing.

also instead of Lame/mp3 use a good audio codec like AAC.

It's not like it matters.  AAC is far better at low bitrates, but as you approach 200kbps it's not like there's going to be a noticeable difference.  But I switched everything to QAAC Q=100 VBR LC-AAC.  So, if the 128kbps AAC = 160kbps MP3 and 256kbps AAC = 320kbps MP3 is correct, this new effective bitrate should be above LAME V0.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 05:17:31 am by kuchikirukia »

Online der richter

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 03:34:49 am »
It's not like it matters.  AAC is far better at low bitrates, but as you approach 200kbps it's not like there's going to be a noticeable difference.  But I switched everything to QAAC Q=100 VBR LC-AAC.  So, if the 128kbps AAC = 160kbps MP3 and 256kbps AAC = 320mbps MP3 is correct, this new effective bitrate should be above LAME V0.

it does. mp3, even with high bitrates, is noticeable worse than AAC with a reasonable bitrate. just the difference in how mp3 in comparison to AAC works should make that rather obvious.

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 05:13:32 am »
it does. mp3, even with high bitrates, is noticeable worse than AAC with a reasonable bitrate. just the difference in how mp3 in comparison to AAC works should make that rather obvious.

The subjective differences diminish rapidly.  96kbps --> 128kbps is a lot larger leap than 224k -->320k,  With the canned effects and music of this source, even in an A/B I doubt one in a million could repeatedly discern the difference between V1, V0, Q=100, 109, 118, 127, or FLAC.  I know I can't hear any difference in back-to-back.  So it's more an issue of codec efficiency than the quality level at V1.  If Q=100 reduces filesize by 1.5MB per episode over V1 and nobody's complaining that, "it's not V1 or V0," I'm certainly happy with the result.  AAC works for me.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 07:15:52 am by kuchikirukia »

Offline cold_hell

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2014, 10:01:02 am »
So it's more an issue of codec efficiency than the quality level at V1.
For me this sounds like 320kbps MP3 > 64kbps AAC => MP3 has better quality than AAC...
The only purpose of the lossy compression is efficiency. If you are comparing only quality without considering the bitrate then any lossless codec (like FLAC for example) will be better than all lossy codecs.
If AAC gives you better quality than mp3 on the same bitrate (and it does on both high and low bitrates for sure) => AAC is better.

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2014, 01:01:06 pm »
So it's more an issue of codec efficiency than the quality level at V1.
For me this sounds like 320kbps MP3 > 64kbps AAC => MP3 has better quality than AAC...
The only purpose of the lossy compression is efficiency. If you are comparing only quality without considering the bitrate then any lossless codec (like FLAC for example) will be better than all lossy codecs.
If AAC gives you better quality than mp3 on the same bitrate (and it does on both high and low bitrates for sure) => AAC is better.

There is a point where the amount of space is trivial, and a point where the increase in quality is trivial.  At the point where space is trivial you are comparing quality.  At the point where the increase in quality is trivial you are comparing space.  One is not the other.


Offline revo

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2014, 01:08:24 pm »
mp3 really ? Is this 1998 ?

If you can't hear the difference go with aac so that others don't laugh at you

Offline Krudda

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2014, 01:52:09 pm »
Seriously, 1.5MB... you're scrimping on 1.5MB?
Go with AAC for not only modern consistency, but also compatibility. A lot of devices won't accept MP3 audio.
(well, that depends if you're going with 8bit or 10bit, I suppose)

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2014, 11:29:42 am »
Hmm, the OP changes slightly at episode 5.  Glad I noticed that.

E: FUUUUUUU... Bleach the Best doesn't have all of the squad endings.  It would have been easier to extract those with the episodes and encode them, but I've already encoded them separately.  Now I need to go back, re-extract the chapters, and figure out what goes where.

Oh, and definitely a poster child for using CRF over two-pass:  Episode 39 (Zaraki fight) takes 2.46X the bit rate of Episode 34 (post-Renji fight), and ~2x times that of the average episode.  (And weirdly, I can't see why episode 34 is distinctly smaller than the average episode.  It doesn't look to have less motion than average, and it even has periods with the flashback static effect which chews up bitrate [a solid sequence at 6000kbps] but that episode still comes out TINY.)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 05:35:34 am by kuchikirukia »

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2014, 07:50:25 am »
Ok, no biggie that I need to do those endings separately since I found out the telecide filter I was using wasn't working right on any of the OPs and EDs so I needed to break them out anyway.

E:
What
The
Fuck.
The opening is made up of 24FPS progressive, 30FPS progressive, and 30FPS 3:2?
Ok, so now I have no idea what to do.  I guess I'll see what Handbrake does to it. 

The last encode I did was an rip of Blade in like '01.  It may even have been DivX, though I was messing around with Xvid at the time.  This is... just a little more complicated.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 09:29:06 am by kuchikirukia »

Offline Krudda

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 08:38:31 am »
I can't see why episode 34 is distinctly smaller than the average episode. It doesn't look to have less motion than average, and it even has periods with the flashback static effect which chews up bitrate [a solid sequence at 6000kbps] but that episode still comes out TINY.
There are likely a lot of scenes with mostly the same colour (think skies, etc)
Just because there's a lot of motion, don't assume it'll use lots of bitrate. Most people are fooled by fights because they forget only the characters involved are moving - and the pixels they use.

So while they may change a lot, it may only be 1/10th of the screen that is actually changing.

Offline kuchikirukia

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Re: Bleach
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2014, 11:59:41 am »
There are likely a lot of scenes with mostly the same colour (think skies, etc)
Just because there's a lot of motion, don't assume it'll use lots of bitrate. Most people are fooled by fights because they forget only the characters involved are moving - and the pixels they use.

So while they may change a lot, it may only be 1/10th of the screen that is actually changing.

That's just it, it still has pans and zooms.  While it has plenty of cuts from static background to static background, it doesn't look to have significantly more than any other episode, yet its video is 84% the size of the next smallest (episode 18).  And while episode 18 tops out at 4400kbps and only for 1 second, episode 34 has an 18 second segment of 6000-6400kbps noise effect -- that 18 seconds alone is worth 90kbps average.   So the other 98.5% of the episode is barely above 500kbps average.