Author Topic: Where Reason and Science Fail  (Read 1544 times)

Offline Semnae

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2016, 11:05:51 pm »
You'd expect this sort of thing from the poor and uneducated, but it looks like people who believe the Earth is flat have just gained a celebrity figurehead. B.o.B. just came out as a Flat Earther. Neil deGrasse Tyson himself tried to educate him, but B.o.B. responded by creating a diss track.

Edit: Neil's son, Steve Tyson, who also happens to be a rapper, released his own counter diss track. I guess it's on now!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 11:45:53 pm by Semnae »

Online Ixarku

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2016, 12:12:23 am »
I saw this the other day.  I continue to wonder why people care what celebrities have to say.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline jaybug

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 01:56:52 am »
It's only going to get worse if you keep feeding the bureaucracies, instead of nurturing the people the bureaucracies are supposed to support.

News flash from the University of Oregon president, they need to hire several more federal compliance officers, before they can start hiring more professors. Brilliant!
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Online Ixarku

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2016, 04:28:17 am »
Leave it to Jay to turn a comment about idiot celebrities into another jab at bureaucracies.  Did a bureaucrat run over your dog or something when you were a kid?  I bet you hate Hermes Conrad in Futurama too.  You know, sometimes people are just idiots.  Everything in life is not automatically the result of some bureaucracy's failure somewhere.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline jaybug

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2016, 05:47:22 am »
Leave it to Jay to turn a comment about idiot celebrities into another jab at bureaucracies.  Did a bureaucrat run over your dog or something when you were a kid?  I bet you hate Hermes Conrad in Futurama too.  You know, sometimes people are just idiots.  Everything in life is not automatically the result of some bureaucracy's failure somewhere.

Yeah, but most of those don't get paid for with my taxes. I really think we should be avoiding hiring idiots to run our bureaucracies. It's probably my imagination, but didn't WE used to hire more capable people, before the saying those who can, work for a living, those who can't, work for the government? It was before my time, I know. So maybe I am imagining a Golden Era of government work.
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Online Ixarku

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2016, 12:17:45 pm »
Yeah, but most of those don't get paid for with my taxes. I really think we should be avoiding hiring idiots to run our bureaucracies. It's probably my imagination, but didn't WE used to hire more capable people, before the saying those who can, work for a living, those who can't, work for the government? It was before my time, I know. So maybe I am imagining a Golden Era of government work.

It's entirely your imagination.  Corruption, inefficiency, and bad decisions are a hallmark of humanity.  It didn't start in the 1970s, or the 1940s, or even in 2000 B.C.  There is not now nor has there ever been a Golden Era of government work.  You should always be suspicious of any sense of nostalgia which tells you, "Things were better back in the old days!"  They weren't.  That's just your brain wishing for times when you had fewer responsibilities and knew less about the world and how it works.  Go read up on the Gilded Age, and then tell me that the government was so much better then.

You act like bureaucrats are some kind of alien species.  They're not.  Bureaucrats are all of us.  I work in the private sector, but I work for a Fortune 500 company comprised mostly of other companies that were purchased and then cobbled together into a larger organism, like a Frankenstein of companies.  I see bureaucratic inefficiency and bad decisions all the time.

I see one business unit doing critical work for another, but lying to the other business unit about their ability to get the job done.  (This is going on right now on a major project which I expect is going to go KABOOM! within the next few weeks.  Everybody knows it, and the status of the project has been escalated multiple times because the project team can't get traction or resources, but are the executives doing anything about it?  Take a guess.)

I see one group of people in a company madly stampeding to fix something without regards to the impact or the potential to screw something else up, while other groups vainly try to enforce some sort of control over things to keep our company from shooting itself in the foot.

I see members of one business unit receive work tickets from another unit.  Members of the first unit take 2-3 weeks to respond to a request for work, then do the work wrong or not at all, then close out the ticket without explanation, and then refuse to do the job right or even respond to inquiries until another ticket is opened -- and maybe they'll get to that one in another 2-3 weeks.

Hell, even *I'm* not above using process and procedure to make somebody I don't like go away, and "do it right" before I'll do work for them.  It depends on my mood, how busy I am, and whether or not that person has pissed me off recently.

So, yeah, please remind me again how government has the monopoly on bureaucratic inefficiency and bad decisions.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Burkingam

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2016, 02:11:32 pm »
I really don't get flatearters. Literally all you have to do is have a skype conversation with something on the other side of the Earth and realize their days and nights don't coincide with yours.
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Online Ixarku

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2016, 12:19:18 am »
I really don't get flatearters. Literally all you have to do is have a skype conversation with something on the other side of the Earth and realize their days and nights don't coincide with yours.

Yeah I pretty much guarantee that anyone working in IT / software development in the U.S. has had to be on a conference call with someone in India before.  Hyderabad is 10.5 hours ahead of Florida.

Also, I read your typo as "flate arters" and for a split second, I was wondering what kind of art is flate.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Burkingam

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2016, 05:00:10 am »
When I worked for Videotron, we had tech support contractors in Egypt but for some dumb reasons Videotron only gave night shifts to its own Employees. It all makes sense now! It's irrefutable PROOF that Videotron is part of the Reptilian Illuminatii and The Round Earth is the BIG LIE THEY want you to believe to HIDE the TRUTH! Wake up SHEEPLES!!!!!! *puts one tinfold hat*
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2016, 06:50:50 am »
I really don't get flatearters. Literally all you have to do is have a skype conversation with something on the other side of the Earth and realize their days and nights don't coincide with yours.

Yeah I pretty much guarantee that anyone working in IT / software development in the U.S. has had to be on a conference call with someone in India before.  Hyderabad is 10.5 hours ahead of Florida.

Also, I read your typo as "flate arters" and for a split second, I was wondering what kind of art is flate.

Music. Using the musical fruit, beans. Flate-u-late. It's truly a one of a kind art, in that it is full of shit, that no one can deny.

Tin foil hat Burk. Unless you made a ten fold hat. 100 folds is proper for a chefs hat.
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Offline Burkingam

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2016, 11:46:12 am »
I kno no ho too gramar coz goverment mine cuntrol!!
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Offline capnmorgan

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2016, 02:29:02 pm »
BOOBIES!!!


If your superpower requires you to get naked, its not a power its a problem.

Offline Semnae

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2016, 10:52:35 pm »

Offline capnmorgan

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If your superpower requires you to get naked, its not a power its a problem.

Offline JD75

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2016, 02:23:54 am »
Doesn't Hip Hop have enough clowns like Vinnie Paz and Hopsin?  :-|

A lot of talk surrounding the track is of being "open-minded" or a "free thinker". It seems that those terms simply mean accepting whatever resonates with you the most. To be open-minded nowadays is to begin to abandon truth; to start creating your own narrative. Nothing good comes from that.

Offline Semnae

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2016, 04:24:33 am »
Doesn't Hip Hop have enough clowns like Vinnie Paz and Hopsin?  :-|

A lot of talk surrounding the track is of being "open-minded" or a "free thinker". It seems that those terms simply mean accepting whatever resonates with you the most. To be open-minded nowadays is to begin to abandon truth; to start creating your own narrative. Nothing good comes from that.

You've reminded me of a video I recently watched.
http://youtu.be/T69TOuqaqXI

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2016, 03:49:54 am »
https://www.facebook.com/godlessengineering/videos/779965412125396/

It is quite startling, in this day and age, that there are still those who will argue that the Sun travels around the Earth. How do you even respond to something like this? I could present a mountain of evidence proving the Earth travels around the Sun, but what good would it do? Any refutation would certainly fall on deaf ears.

I wager many of you would laugh and call them idiots. I feel sad for them. They are so blinded by delusion, they are unlikely ever to see the beauty of the real universe. I want to help people like them, but evidence and reason are useless in this endeavor. Like Thomas Paine said, "To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."

I've heard many suggest that you cannot help people like this. It is said that I should just ignore them and let them believe whatever they want. That is just so sad. Like this, these two will never amount to anything more than a joke posted on various secular websites for people to make fun of. To give up on them amounts to admitting there are people in this world that are worthless and have no potential. I would help them, if only I knew how.

Is there truly nothing that can be done?
lol .... I'm just trying to understand the guy in the video ... is he for real? The earth doesn't move?


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Offline Semnae

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2017, 12:45:09 am »
Shaquille O'Neal, famous basketball star, just came out as a flat Earther.

This makes me sad.  In every interview I've ever seen with him, he seemed like a genuinely decent fellow.  It's a shame that he holds such moronic beliefs.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Semnae

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Re: Where Reason and Science Fail
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2017, 02:19:52 am »
Sem, you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped.  This is a hard lesson to learn but an important one, and it applies to many aspects of life.  Certainly in cases like this, it's important to fight lies and disinformation with facts, but you're deluding yourself if you think people like this want to be helped.  If you want to help, then focus your attention on the ignorant but open-minded, on the uneducated, not the indoctrinated.

I already intend to take that course of action. I'm just a few hours of field based experiences away from getting my probationary teaching certificate. I think that if someone is taught the value of evidence based, critical thinking, it will inoculate them against pseudoscience. I went through the public school system, junior college, and university, got degrees in Science, and not a single teacher ever taught me what a logical fallacy or a cognitive bias was. That is the real tragedy. All over Texas, people are being educated, but not learning how to think critically.

I just reread this from the first page. Oh the hindsight! I spent months in figurative Hell chasing this this futile goal.

"Sem, you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped.  This is a hard lesson to learn but an important one, and it applies to many aspects of life."

That quote was near prophetic. I sure learned that lesson the hard way.

As for focusing on the open-minded but uneducated, that was a total failure. It sounds good in theory, but it is a frustrating daily struggle just to get my students to repeat something I literally just told them. It isn't possible to teach them critical thinking skill, because they don't even have the ability to simply recall information.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. One day, I asked a student a question. He didn't know the answer, so I told him the answer, and asked the next student a different question. He didn't know the answer, so I gave it to him. I then went to the previous student and asked him the same exact question I asked him before. He didn't know the answer, so I gave it to him again. I then turned to the second student and did the same thing, with the exact same result. I kept going back and forth between these two students for 15 minutes before giving up and moving on. It began to feel cruel, like I was singling out these two students and embarrassing them in front of all their peers. I could have done this all day to no avail. I have 120 students, and the vast majority retain information about as well as Dory from Finding Nemo.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 03:02:17 am by Semnae »