Author Topic: The Dominion  (Read 1652 times)

Offline Semnae

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The Dominion
« on: November 29, 2015, 12:51:27 pm »
Over the Thankskgiving holiday, I was visiting with family and we were talking about politics. At some point my mother said something pretty typical of an American with strong political opinions. "If Trump wins, I'm moving to Canada". Of course, this was said in jest, but it got me thinking.

Over the course of this election, candidates have seriously suggested several frightening things, like forcing Muslims to wear ID badges, creating a national database of religious affiliation, warrantless searches, and creating a militia to forcibly deport over 11 million illegal immigrants. The US has the most powerful military on Earth, under the direct control of the president, and Conservative Republicans tend to be heavily armed and xenophobic. In recent presidential elections, the popular vote has been very close, within two or three percentage points.

Christian Dominionists are a powerful political force in the United States. There are a frightening number of people here that believe the US should be a Christian theocracy. The nation teeters on the brink of insanity. All it would take to tip the scales is a galvanizing, dominionist president to be elected.

Imagine, political opponents arrested, the Constitution suspended, and minorities, as well as sympathizers, being incarcerated or just executed outright. I need to have a serious plan to flee the country should I need to. Too many people know that I'm an Atheist for me to get away with pretending to be Christian at this point. I live within driving distance of the Mexican border if my wife and I need to make a run for it, but then where would I go? My wife can teach English and Music, and I have a strong background in biological science. Where might we be most likely to prosper?

What are your plans for if the United States goes Nazi-style crazy?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 01:06:44 pm by Semnae »

Offline capnmorgan

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 02:04:29 pm »
Sem, you're nuts. The "Christian Dominionists" as you put it make too much noise about the constitution and the amendments to get away with anything resembling what you're talking about. Then you've got to figure out which denomination will rule them all? Are we talking Catholics, Protestants, Baptists (Southern, First, Second, Etc.), Lutherans, Orthodox, Zionist? Because if one took the lead, we would hear nothing but trouble from the rest. There's a difference between folks shooting the shit with their friends and family and crazy shit you can talk online. The difference being there's nobody to slap the back of your head and say you're full of shit when all you do is talk to crazies on the net.


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Offline AceHigh

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2015, 02:29:16 pm »
Then you've got to figure out which denomination will rule them all?
The religion of money and the church of ATM. Bembers of all denominations are obsessed of having these green holy papers on which it says "in god we trust".

In other words the religious folks will yap all day, but the federal reserve will take on the pragmatic and profitable course of action.

Offline Semnae

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 02:46:27 pm »
Sem, you're nuts. The "Christian Dominionists" as you put it make too much noise about the constitution and the amendments to get away with anything resembling what you're talking about. Then you've got to figure out which denomination will rule them all? Are we talking Catholics, Protestants, Baptists (Southern, First, Second, Etc.), Lutherans, Orthodox, Zionist? Because if one took the lead, we would hear nothing but trouble from the rest. There's a difference between folks shooting the shit with their friends and family and crazy shit you can talk online. The difference being there's nobody to slap the back of your head and say you're full of shit when all you do is talk to crazies on the net.

Denomination is nowhere near as divisive among American Christians as you are suggesting. As for their constant talk about the Constitution, that's important to a good number of Republicans, but a Christian Dominionist seeks to impose their religion through political means. They only give a damn about the Constitution when they need to defend their possession of a ton of firearms.

Edit: By the way, the US has 4.4% of the world population, but has almost 50% the worlds civilian owned firearms. You don't seriously think that's all just for hunting and self defense, do you?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 03:17:17 pm by Semnae »

Offline Ixarku

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 03:19:31 pm »
And here I thought this thread would be about the Cardassians, the Founders, and the Jem'Hadar.

I think the increasing noise from the religious fundies is worth keeping an eye on, but, Sem, don't be the liberal version of "that guy".  "That guy" is all of the right wingers who swore that Obama was a Muslim extremist out to take everyone's guns away and make himself into a king, and that Obamacare would be economic apocalypse.  And after the 2016 election, those same people will breathe a sigh of relief and pat themselves on the back for all the hard work they did to prevent King Obama the First from seizing absolute power.

On the liberal side, it is equally likely that the religious fundies will take power, suspend the Constitution, and impose Christian law on everyone.  The odds that these people can successfully change the Constitution through legal means are zero -- despite attempts to undermine it, we have a well-established tradition of keeping government and religion separate, and you can bet your last dollar that people will come out of the woodwork to defend it against a serious threat like a Constitutional amendment.  Not that an amendment will even get off the ground in the first place.  A coup is sure in the hell not going to happen, and if we were to elect a crazy fundie as President -- well, his power is limited, too, and nobody's going to stand for a sweeping away of the old laws.  Without military support, nobody is imposing anything on the nation as a whole, and our military is not in the habit of subduing its own people.

On top of all of that, consider the economic impact of such turmoil.  The kind of sweeping changes you're thinking of would send waves that could very well wreck economies across the globe.  It's not in anyone's interests to allow that to happen.  Even if the fundamentalists were to push forward with a widespread attempt for radical change, we live in the era of surveillance, and you can bet that federal and local agencies would aggressively pursue anyone who doesn't pursue those goals through legal means.
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Offline capnmorgan

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2015, 05:05:36 pm »
And here I thought this thread would be about the Cardassians, the Founders, and the Jem'Hadar.
Star Trek reference for the win!


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Offline Ozzaharwood

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 09:20:23 pm »
It seems to me that atheism is growing faster than Christianity/Catholicism and that is scary to people who belong to the latter groups, so we are seeing more desperate attempts to keep the religion around, not vice versa. Even with a retarded president you will most likely be fine; you guys did live through the Bush years, after all.

Offline Fool010

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 12:13:29 am »
The only way you'll ever see a christian theocracy is for catholics to take over power, and there's not remotely enough of them in the States. That being said, the procedure for getting there is most likely to devolve into civil war, especially in a country where firearms are that common.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:15:17 am by Fool010 »
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Offline VexHaus

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 01:22:02 am »
You've been living in Texas for way too long, dude. :P

They're not nearly as powerful of a political bloc as you think. The best they'll ever be able to achieve is get some mealy-mouth pandering from GOP presidential candidates when they stop by their state during a campaign. They got a shot in the arm during the Reagan years, but the Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson types have been in steady decline ever since. The Christians of the millennial generation have really turned out to be significantly more liberal (or at least a lot more politically diverse) than the Religious Right of the mid to late 20th century, too.
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Offline Fool010

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 02:26:58 am »
It's actually kinda funny to see how much puritanical heritage still lingers around in a country that fancies itself the most advanced on the face of Earth. Even funnier though is how much something that started from the idea that catholic christianism needed reform has become entrenched in dogma itself.
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Offline capnmorgan

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 02:28:17 am »
It seems to me that atheism is growing faster than Christianity/Catholicism and that is scary to people who belong to the latter groups

Not really. On the list of stuff that scares me, Atheism falls somewhere between pink fluffy bunnies and lukewarm dish water.

You've been living in Texas for way too long, dude. :P

Well it is the same state that recently was certain that the government was coming to take over and move everyone into the closed Walmart in pico Verde.


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Offline jaybug

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 02:46:37 am »
Quote
And here I thought this thread would be about the Cardassians, the Founders, and the Jem'Hadar.

My thoughts exactly!

But why is Goku called the French Stock market indicator by Vegeta? Cac 40? Cac quarante?

Second hope was it was about Dominion Tank Police. Which I have been sitting on, not yet ready to sift through that elder anime.

Sem lives in some weird city sort of American West. Posse Commitatus is more prevalent towards the Pacific Northwest. We don't do religion as well as they do down south. Mainly because we got Mormons, who those nice kind folks down south don't consider to be Christians.
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Offline Fool010

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 03:22:46 am »
Mainly because we got Mormons, who those nice kind folks down south don't consider to be Christians.

That would mean they're somehow kindred spirit with catholics, right ?

Dem people also consider catholics aren't christian, iirc.
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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 03:27:48 am »
Personally when I look at the States I am reminded of Austria-Hungary pre-WWI. Many similar issues and I could easily see the US devolving into many different countries (which realistically it already is, just with one level above it). The biggest issue is there is no moderation on any side, both sides go to the extremes and expect the other side to just allow what is essentially the opposite of there beliefs to be forced on them.

There is no Liberal or Conservative parties in US politics (though most parties like to call themselves those names even if they don't follow that ethos), only Socialists and Reactionaries. This is a major issue as countries which have political systems with such opposites with no balance usually end up in either revolution or civil war.

I know from Canada it is interesting to watch the clear and blatant lies that are told and no one seems to care. To be fair the same thing happened to us in Canada though a bit more subtlety, as the media portrayed one side as the devil and the other as the angel with no proof to either claim. One side got grilled over nothing and the other when they did screw up, didn't even make it to main stream media (and the other side screwed up significantly more then the one that got grilled). The result is a prime minister who can't even speak without a queue card, and is realistically a international embarrassment. For the record I didn't like any side of the election, I just want people to be able to make decisions based on fact not propaganda; where all sides are treated equally and questioned hard.

This could possibly be Americas case as well except it would be much more embarrassing and show how backward the states really is. Fear mongering, blatantly obvious propaganda, pure lies, scapegoating (the Muslim population) these are all tactics used by dictators (Hitler being a great example as he did this exact thing in a democracy to spring to power) not by a modern democracy.

Offline capnmorgan

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 04:11:13 am »


Second hope was it was about Dominion Tank Police. Which I have been sitting on, not yet ready to sift through that elder anime.
.

Watch it.


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Offline Nikkoru

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2015, 09:14:54 pm »
Incidently, Canada was and technically still is a Dominion though legal language has edged towards simply referring to it as Canada since WW2. I've often thought we should reverse that trend and simply start calling ourselves The Dominion, evoke fear in the hearts and minds of people around the world!
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Offline Semnae

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 12:08:26 am »
You've been living in Texas for way too long, dude. :P

They're not nearly as powerful of a political bloc as you think.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_22415.pdf

That's a fair criticism in the absence of data, so here's a poll to strengthen my claim. This poll finds that 57% of Republicans believe the United States should be a Christian theocracy.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:10:47 am by Semnae »

Offline VexHaus

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 01:41:54 am »
That looks like a survey of primary voters rather than the general party as a whole (the 2012 primaries had an average voter turnout of ~17% of those eligible to participate apparently), so they're effectively polling the most hardcore dedicated party members

And even granted that there's arguably a significant difference between establishing a state religion vs establishing an actual functional theocracy, at the end of the day both would still run afoul of the first amendment as well as a visceral reaction from the left

also lol I wonder how a libertarian like Rand Paul thinks about 62% of his supporter base in the poll agreeing with establishing a state religion


I'm having little success at it right now, but I'm trying to find an article (I think it was in either Slate or The Atlantic) that kinda went behind the scenes of Liberty University's law school program if you wanted to see some stuff that might actually creep you out instead of a pithy poll of public opinion. A lot of it mostly had to do with some of their curriculum centering around how to basically work/game the legal system to advance and/or defend religiously-charged policies since the Judicial Branch is arguably the one arm of government that ostensibly does not depend on popular support (how successful they actually are at some of this is an entirely different matter though)

This is not a very good way of describing it by the way, since I'm working with hazy half-memories here from a couple of months ago. I think it might have been in the context of gay marriage? idk
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 01:44:12 am by VexHaus »
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Offline capnmorgan

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 05:45:33 am »
Incidently, Canada was and technically still is a Dominion though legal language has edged towards simply referring to it as Canada since WW2. I've often thought we should reverse that trend and simply start calling ourselves The Dominion, evoke fear in the hearts and minds of people around the world!


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Offline Semnae

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Re: The Dominion
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 11:01:45 am »
also lol I wonder how a libertarian like Rand Paul thinks about 62% of his supporter base in the poll agreeing with establishing a state religion

“The First Amendment says keep government out of religion ... It doesn’t say keep religion out of government.” -Rand Paul
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 11:10:42 am by Semnae »