Author Topic: Wondering about offering a SoundTrack offering in ripper's format for songs  (Read 686 times)

Offline Astara

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I have a sound track (actually 3 seasons), collection for Queen's Blade.  32 songs in Season 1, 32 songs in Season 2, and 42 songs in Season 3.  All were compressed using the exhaustive search method of FLAC compresssion.  The albums and songs are titled in English with original Japanese titles following the English titles in parenthesis) -- except for the title of Season 3, which only had an English title.  All text is in UTF-8.

Included in each season, as allowed for manga and other multimedia series is a small (~3KB) file of translator's notes as well as "folder.jpg" (Covers) for Seasons 1+2 and a Cover.png for Season 3 that are picked up by music players like "foo2000" and the FIIOS3 and displayed as cover art.

I've heard from more than one person that would be interested in this being offered on baka, using the ripper's original naming.  Also, I note, that this is a Sound Track collection, not an "audio collection".  I.e. it has the music from the 3 series (The Exiled Virgin, the evil eye, and Rebellion).

Would this be desired and acceptable?

A*a
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 05:56:57 am by Astara »

Offline 12laus

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Sure, we only have an MP3 version so far: https://bakabt.me/torrent/161052/queens-blade-music-collection-mp3

Our rule is that the tracknames have to be in romaji though, so I don't think you can keep the original filenames. Unless this soundtrack has been licensed and released with English tracknames?

Also, I'm not sure why you'd need some TL notes for a music collection?


Offline Astara

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That's the kink.  I know it hasn't been offered in Romaji.  Given how many other UTF-8 char are allowed in file names, saying one can't use Japanese characters in a Japanese Anime media offering seems a bit .... not sure what the word would be...  but "something"- ist?

From what I can tell, several of the titles are in English, some are in english-sounding Katakana, but seeing as how original Greek and other east and western european characters are used in many song titles allowed it seems 'alphabetist?[sic?]' to ban any Japanese chars, especially, in a Japanese media forum. 

However, the requirement that no official release has been made in 'xxxx' display format hasn't prevented translators from offering anime episode names in english, or just removing them entirely -- also unofficial.  The main concern was to use the ripper's convention for naming episodes -- and many of the songs relate to episodes and/or titles often given in anime episode titles.  I've seen anime episodes in english and Katakana (w/some Kanji's, but most often Katakana), but never in Romaji. 

Also, AFAIK, I've never seen any official release for a 3rd season OST, but have heard it was released only as CD-format regions or on a CD w/the episode release.  If romaji was a language official language I could see it being required, but given that many Romaji spellings are Romaji encoded versions of *English* words, I think some of this is touched on in the TLnotes -- but like you, I often don't see reasons for TLnotes includable w/anime or manga, but I certainly don't see why it would only be disallowed for music.  Ah... found an example of this type of "translation abuse":

What is:

1) クイー ン ズ  ブ レ イド ・  メ イ ン テー マ B    =>
2) Ka ee  N  Zu  BU RE I DO  .  Me I  N  Tee  Ma B =>
3) Ka ē   n  Zu  Bu Re i Do  .  Me I  N  Tē   Ma 2  =>
4) KaēnZu BuReiDo . MeINTēMaB =>
5) Kwēnz Bl a De  - MainTēMaB =>
6) Kwēnz Blade    - Main TēMB=> 
7) Queens Blade   - Main Theme 2


So While the Romaji can be done "programatically" (being the Name of the Japanese character), it's not until you sound it out that you can tell it's a Katakana spelling of the "English",  "Queens Blade - Main Theme 2".  If my GoogleFu was high enough, I might be able to do it programatically w/wget -- i.e. pasting in:

https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/クイーンズブレイド・メインテーマB

to either PaleMoon(x64 FFclone) or IE11 both show the english translation as well
as the Romaji below the text entry window...

Since this is an English speaking website, it makes sense to not botch Japanese attempts to spell "English" words, directly, by encoding it, via a "Pig-Latin"-type cipher(substitution w/special rules), into non-plaintext Romaji, when the Katakana is intended to be the closest Japanese spelling of English words.

OTOH, I've noted that the bit-torrent description/file formats allow for renaming both the folder titles
and song titles to whatever the end-user wants to make them.

However, I've also noted that modern torrent clients allow the end user to rename the files through the torrent-client to anything they want -- and it doesn't affect seeding or file-checksums.

So people could change the names -- as long as it was done through their client, after (or during) D/L, into just about any language they want.

Since it doesn't involve renaming, I'm sure the Trk-title notes could be put in a subdir though.

--edit(s)--

I remember the song rules emphasizing that UTF-8 was wanted -- it's not like the titles are in a non-standard alphabet.  But I liked the ripper's translations, since I've seen english names for the episode titleshaving the english and the original title since I can often find related material under either the English or the original title, but I rarely, if ever find official sources using Romaji -- especially the non-UTF-8 version I usually see used on here using vowel doubling or diphthongs instead of the vowel w/macron as has been linguistic Romaji for a few decades...

Also, in comparison -- with the series episode titles:
Season I: 2 english, 3 strippped
Season II: 1 english, 4 stripped
Season III: 1 stripped

Compared to the OST for Guilty Crown (using greek and other, mostly eastern European languages).
None are in english, Japanese or Romaji.

I've seen more than one like GC, that gets completely exempted, where english, and, therefore, romaji
spelling's of the Katakana sound-alikes would have been possible but were not required.

Is it only Japanese characters that are banned on baka, a Japanese Anime site?

As I mentioned, they titles/tags are all UTF-8 and display properly on Windows (probably XP+, but definitely win7+), linux and not certain, but fairly sure -- Macs.

Of course if you go with the Anime-episode standard, an auto-strip&rename script should be loads easier than auto->romaji using google (have to figure out why the same URL's work in IE+FF+PM, but not wget...hmmmm).


« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 08:23:55 pm by Astara »

Offline 12laus

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I literally just skimmed through that and didn't think much of that was relevant at all.

Having our tracklists in romaji is more for ease of use for our users as we are, in fact, a site geared towards English anime fans.

I'm not really interested in your arguments whether romaji is the most representative of the Japanese language.

Anyway, if you want to offer this, please rename to the following format:

01 - Trackname in romaji

If the trackname was originally English, then leave it as that. If it was katakana, romanise it as appropriate.

You can probably just copy the naming standards of the MP3 torrent. I assume most of the content you have is available there.

Offline Astara

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I've been a user here for over 6 years.  It's very inconvenient for me -- sites that track songs will take english or kanji, but not romaji.  If I don't know japanese, the romaji isn't useful.  All the japanese language books I have, say Romaji is worthless in Japan, because Japanese natives don't usually know it or how to read it.  One of the language books I have that has some Romaji only has it for the first lesson -- after that, it is expected one will have learned the alphabet (not that I have, mind you!)

It's only as convenient for music as it is for anime episodes.  It's not required there.  It's also not consistently required here.  As a site geared toward English anime fans, English should be appreciated.  I know of no population that speak
Romaji. 

I can insert the exact kanji title in a search and come up with listings for the song.  That is rarely the case for Romaji.  English -- depends on fans and english-based publications.

So are you willing to remove all audio/sound offerings that don't have a Romaji track listing? 

I'm offering a high quality FLAC for all 3 seasons (try to find the OST for season 3, it's next to impossible).  It depends on whether or not users find convenience in being able to have FLAC or not.  The original ripper's names are not easily negotiable given all the various exceptions to the rule I see here on baka.

There's nothing stopping you from taking the songs out of my offering and replacing it later on if that is really that important.  I prefer to find music w/readable titles and, at least, 1024x1024 Cover images (prefereably in png) that
is supported by most audio-players.  Even if your audio player doesn't support UTF-8 titles, the english text comes first, and is easily readable on players that display the whole thing or scroll.

Given discussions and messages I've seen, I think a fair number of users would appreciate the offering.  But how about this -- you take the same songs and re-offer them.  Keep both offers up.  make it clear that the only
difference is the titles.  See which people like in the long term (in the short term, any "ballot box" can be stuffed).

The main problem I have w/Romaji, is I can't cut/paste it into a translater like Google, and have it come up with anything useful -- vs. if I cut/paste the Japanese title -- I'll nearly always come up with the English song names that I'd expect.

How does anyone ever get anything to change around here if you don't allow them to try it? 


Online Krudda

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Please run the files through spek or similar first.
Too many fake FLAC around as is. Best to check first.

Offline Astara

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Please run the files through spek or similar first.
Too many fake FLAC around as is. Best to check first.

I found it -- what would I look for?

Shows alot of lines & dots from 0-22kHz, some songs are more trippy than others... wow...
not all songs show up to 22kHz throughout the whole song, but I'd expect that....

Too bad the analyzer in foobar2000 isn't in color....

But sorta moot if standards aren't updated, though I find Kanji-only titling to be confusing, the english ties me into the series as to what & where the music relates to.  And if someone wanted Greek titles -- they could cut/paste the kanji part of the title into google and get a translation. 

But I can't really see titling the songs in _lossy_ Romaji -- my experience from google is that there are too many variations when you type in Romaji so it's hard to tell what the real song titles are.  But w/the UTF-8 source chars included, it really is lossless titling.  Often It will come up with the exact English song title -- including capitalization!

It's really cool, cut/paste:
クイーンズブレイド・メインテーマ

into the japanese box @ https://translate.google.com/#ja/en/ --
and magic: comes up with "Queen's Blade - Main Theme", but try copy/paste
the Romaji:
Kuīnzubureido meintēma --- can't translate it.

I really need to write a flash-card program for Japanese characters -- only way I'm likely
to learn them, *sigh*.




Online Krudda

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You're basically just checking to see if the waveform is capped. If it looks like a consistent line going through the top end of the spectrum, chances are its lossy in a lossless container. i.e. Not FLAC

http://www.head-fi.org/t/442888/how-to-tell-between-a-real-flac-and-a-fake-flac
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 07:05:41 am by Krudda »

Offline Astara

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You're basically just checking to see if the waveform is capped. If it looks like a consistent line going through the top end of the spectrum, chances are its lossy in a lossless container. i.e. Not FLAC

http://www.head-fi.org/t/442888/how-to-tell-between-a-real-flac-and-a-fake-flac
Ah... I see.

No horizontal lines through any I looked at...

Offline Sashamaru

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It's generally easier for non-Japanese speakers to identify track names on sight if they're in English or romaji. We prefer romaji.

I understand your apprehension about leaving out the Japanese spelling, as it may hinder someone from easily looking up the song or album info. I suggest including the Japanese track name and/or album catalog number in the track's metadata. I believe this satisfies everyone, as it conforms to our preferred format and also addresses your concerns. I'd encourage you to include this info on your torrent's description page as well.

Offline Astara

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It's generally easier for non-Japanese speakers to identify track names on sight if they're in English or romaji. We prefer romaji.

I understand your apprehension about leaving out the Japanese spelling, as it may hinder someone from easily looking up the song or album info. I suggest including the Japanese track name and/or album catalog number in the track's metadata. I believe this satisfies everyone, as it conforms to our preferred format and also addresses your concerns. I'd encourage you to include this info on your torrent's description page as well.

If someone communicates in romaji, I could understand the preference, but if someone communicates in English, then Romaji makes no sense over the accurate UTF-8 characters that Romaji tries to name in latin characters.  I don't read Japanese or Kanji (or Romaji), But I do read english, and I can easily write scripts to process or rename the files to something else if the original information is there.  But Romaji is NOT a lossless encoding.  Once you've converted to lossy Romaji, you can't accurately get back the original.

I can't see how one wants to offer a lossless offering but w/o being able to easily recover the exact names?  The problem with the meta-info is that the tools vary by platform whereas most people know how to use rename and/or cut/paste. 

The translation notes contain Romaji equivalents, so one could conceivably rename the files from those if wanted (all 3 translations, Eng, Romaji, Kanji) are on 1 line/song.  The Kanji is last on the file names and Xlation notes, so it can be easily "trimmed" or ignored if you don't grok it.

It's also the case that for the most part the OST/audio's I seed aren't the copies I listen too because too many music playing/handling programs want to edit medadata, which invalidates the BT-checksums. 

With Kanji titles, I can get accurate english translations -- with Romaji, I cannot.  Romaji isn't portable and the romaji usually used violates the offering guideline to use UTF-8 in the names (using macron's where applicable for long vowels, vs. some variable vowel diphthong meant to represent what couldn't be represented before UTF-8 became a web standard).

It's also very insulting to rippers and translators to arbitrarily chop up names unless they are inconsistent within the offering.  I don't see why special rules should apply to some audio offerings (I can point out recent offerings, in the past few years, that don't have Romaji but use *other* foreign characters besides Kanji (Guilty Crown, Attack on Titan to name a few I know off hand).

To me, that projects an *anti-Japanese* attitude -- it's ok to use western alphabets like Greek or other eastern european languages, but Japanese?.... we don't want that on our Japanese anime board...
 ???   What's up with that?   

I've been sitting on the flacs of Seasons 1+2 since *before* the MP3's were offered on baka, but was afraid to offer them for exactly these issues.   The OST for Season 3 was a pain to find since it was only released in parts shipped with the Japanese BD release.  Worse -- most of the ones I found that were shipped were offered as 1 LARGE compressed file with an associated cue file (with no names/titles for anything).  To find and get S3 in the format I wanted was a major chore, taking over
a year.  Thus my choice to respect the format chosen by the ripper.

Offline Sashamaru

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You have our answer. No sense in arguing for argument's sake.