Author Topic: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?  (Read 2539 times)

Offline Krudda

  • Member
  • Posts: 10298
  • 私は 日本語 が 上手 じゃ ありません
    • My Anime List
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2016, 01:30:33 pm »
Show me the computer these starving Aftican children are going to be watching their free anime on.

As I said before - you can afford it, you just choose not to.

As I also said before - making movies and animation is NOT cheap.
Everything must be paid for, from the equipment, to the workers, to the right to film on a particular location. Even selling the video commercially costs a lot of money. First you have the fee for the codecs used, then the software (which must be renewed yearly) then the plastic the DVD is made of. The Mexicans who made that disc demand more than a Taco as payment. The DVD case has patents associated to it, you gotta pay royalties to the inventor.
Then you need to burn the DVDs, costing electricity. Print shitty artwork to wrap it in. Advertise it (nobody buys shit if they don't know it ecists). Now you have Freight fees - DVDs do not magically teleport to the store.
Then the storage fees, floorspace ain't cheap. Then the workers at the store who run the register. Then finally, you can start collecting profits. This list ain't even remotely complete either. Remember, nearly every step involves human labour, and every human demands peanuts or more as payment.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:40:13 pm by Krudda »

Offline Johnny D

  • Member
  • Posts: 252
  • Kinda dumb
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2016, 06:24:02 am »
Nicely put, even if it's not a life depending service, it's still a mind demanding service, and it costs way less despite your chain of weaknesses there.
My idea of letting the lower of classes enjoy entertainment and information at much lower costs, might not be realistically applicable but has merits as desirable.
What got me irritated against you is that you are focusing on why it can not be made possible instead of when or how it might be, if ever, and that it should.

As it's written there in my status, I'm kinda dumb, more focused towards the end than the means to get there.
In my defense I can state that it's a treat of many anime characters, and I don't fight against it, nor do I feel the need to. :happy:

So where are we then? All in all? Piracy = good, stopping it = bad!  ;D
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Offline Krudda

  • Member
  • Posts: 10298
  • 私は 日本語 が 上手 じゃ ありません
    • My Anime List
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2016, 09:30:20 am »
If you want me to propose a way for media to move forward in the industry, they need to start offering better subscription based services rather than charging per movie / half a TV show, etc.

The business model has worked really well for RoosterTeeth, and could be improved upon further if the greedy cunts in the CEO positions were willing to sacrifice 50 million potential dollars in profit, in exchange for a more realistic 10 million dollars practically guaranteed profit.

Offline Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1738
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2016, 10:21:37 pm »
The problem you run up against there, is people will only pay for so many $9.99/mo. services, before they tell the rest to piss off.  Got Netflix and Prime?  Who's gonna pay for that and CNNgo, HBOgo, or whatthefrootever individually-packaged streaming content?  I'd assert that most people won't (and they don't, on average).

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2016, 12:30:24 am »
If you want me to propose a way for media to move forward in the industry, they need to start offering better subscription based services rather than charging per movie / half a TV show, etc.

The business model has worked really well for RoosterTeeth, and could be improved upon further if the greedy cunts in the CEO positions were willing to sacrifice 50 million potential dollars in profit, in exchange for a more realistic 10 million dollars practically guaranteed profit.

Even this could never happen. You would need a reboot from the top down with how much money is involved. Take a look at viacom There fiscal film profit was  $111 million and you are proposing they take away half of the profit. Sadly Hollywood is not as profitable as everyone thinks it is. There is high dollars at stake and one or two film flops a year can break your margins.  When you have just 20 of the top paid actors making a combined total of $705 million. You can see a high operating costs handcuffs you. If actors made half of that. If directors made half if there income. If everything was cut in half I think you could easily offer a usable cheap service.  The second part is no one wants to play nice. Disney does not want to stream in the same service as viacom and so on. So you also need to patch that up as well.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 9280
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2016, 12:24:58 pm »
its the "costs" that doesn't really make sense, sure actors gets paid well due to their fame, but seriously why does a movie need to hit multi-hundred million dollars to make?

what they should do is strive for a way to make filming cheaper without compromising quality, or better yet simultaneously increase quality on top of cost reductions.

Online Shiakou

  • Member
  • Posts: 832
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2016, 07:37:41 pm »
its the "costs" that doesn't really make sense, sure actors gets paid well due to their fame, but seriously why does a movie need to hit multi-hundred million dollars to make?

what they should do is strive for a way to make filming cheaper without compromising quality, or better yet simultaneously increase quality on top of cost reductions.

Isn't it because, on top of materials and overhead, you're also paying the salaries of up to several hundred people for months or years at a time? And many of those people are professionals or specialists with skills that are relatively rare?

Iron Man 3 credits 3,310 crew/cast members, took two years from pre-production to release, and had to pay over a hundred million for distribution rights even before they started making the film. That's not taking into account the marketing budget.

Of course, that's only for the big-budget, epic films.

Smaller/indie films have been made for less than ten million. That's why Blair Witch style movies can survive despite grossing less than fifty million. The average Bollywood film gets made with less than 500k US$.

But lets get real, how many Bollywood films do we watch compared to Hollywood films?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 07:52:14 pm by Shiakou »

Offline Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1738
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2016, 08:38:38 pm »
The movie "Moon", which is quite good, cost $5 million.  That's ridiculously low, for how well it was done.

Online Shiakou

  • Member
  • Posts: 832
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2016, 05:13:25 am »
It also grossed less than 10 million where Iron Man 3 grossed over a billion.  :-\

Doesn't mean that Iron Man 3 is better from a story-telling perspective, but epic films are just on a different scale.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 9280
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2016, 06:16:46 pm »
its the "costs" that doesn't really make sense, sure actors gets paid well due to their fame, but seriously why does a movie need to hit multi-hundred million dollars to make?

what they should do is strive for a way to make filming cheaper without compromising quality, or better yet simultaneously increase quality on top of cost reductions.

Isn't it because, on top of materials and overhead, you're also paying the salaries of up to several hundred people for months or years at a time? And many of those people are professionals or specialists with skills that are relatively rare?

Iron Man 3 credits 3,310 crew/cast members, took two years from pre-production to release, and had to pay over a hundred million for distribution rights even before they started making the film. That's not taking into account the marketing budget.

Of course, that's only for the big-budget, epic films.

Smaller/indie films have been made for less than ten million. That's why Blair Witch style movies can survive despite grossing less than fifty million. The average Bollywood film gets made with less than 500k US$.

But lets get real, how many Bollywood films do we watch compared to Hollywood films?

yes i agree that a big film can get quite expensive.

there are two things that can solve this issue.
one is use fewer personnel, which is possible by mechanizing the most laborious part.
the other is finish the film on a shorter time-frame, which is technically possible with thorough preplanning.


if we look at the actual filming part of making these movies, they aren't even that long.
for a 2hour movie at least, if the casts takes a 1hour break every 5minutes, thats 26hours of filming.
multiplied by the number of retakes it took to successfully get a proper take, e.g. 10times on average, you get just 260hours in total.


its the part where setting up the equipment on each take and the post-processing of the film that takes up so much time, they could improve this part if they so wish.


It also grossed less than 10 million where Iron Man 3 grossed over a billion.  :-\

Doesn't mean that Iron Man 3 is better from a story-telling perspective, but epic films are just on a different scale.

thats only because its a popular title, you can make the same film using bollywood equipment.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 06:41:20 pm by kitamesume »

Online Shiakou

  • Member
  • Posts: 832
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2016, 07:11:32 am »
its the "costs" that doesn't really make sense, sure actors gets paid well due to their fame, but seriously why does a movie need to hit multi-hundred million dollars to make?

what they should do is strive for a way to make filming cheaper without compromising quality, or better yet simultaneously increase quality on top of cost reductions.

Isn't it because, on top of materials and overhead, you're also paying the salaries of up to several hundred people for months or years at a time? And many of those people are professionals or specialists with skills that are relatively rare?

Iron Man 3 credits 3,310 crew/cast members, took two years from pre-production to release, and had to pay over a hundred million for distribution rights even before they started making the film. That's not taking into account the marketing budget.

Of course, that's only for the big-budget, epic films.

Smaller/indie films have been made for less than ten million. That's why Blair Witch style movies can survive despite grossing less than fifty million. The average Bollywood film gets made with less than 500k US$.

But lets get real, how many Bollywood films do we watch compared to Hollywood films?

yes i agree that a big film can get quite expensive.

there are two things that can solve this issue.
one is use fewer personnel, which is possible by mechanizing the most laborious part.
the other is finish the film on a shorter time-frame, which is technically possible with thorough preplanning.


if we look at the actual filming part of making these movies, they aren't even that long.
for a 2hour movie at least, if the casts takes a 1hour break every 5minutes, thats 26hours of filming.
multiplied by the number of retakes it took to successfully get a proper take, e.g. 10times on average, you get just 260hours in total.


its the part where setting up the equipment on each take and the post-processing of the film that takes up so much time, they could improve this part if they so wish.

It's funny, cause I remember a Pepper Ann cartoon that had the main character complaining about flaws in a movie and deciding to do a movie herself to show that it could be done better. End conclusion: While a movie could technically be done more efficiently with less cost/people, that's only if you envision a movie project as something like a simulation game where the player controls everything.

IRL movie production is decided by many, many people, all of whom will insist on their input. Everyone from the executives, to the cast and crew have their own ideas. Often the executives are insistent on a particular aspect or theme or change their mind halfway (or several times). Often the director has a vision that plays merry hell with the scriptwriters' bias. Actors may be cooperative, or they may insist on certain things, and that's not getting into stuff like the Screen Actors Guild (now SAG-AFTRA) insistence on certain rules.

TLDR: Making a movie is often like running a small town. You have to make compromises with the people who work for you, the people who work with you, and the people above you.

Finally, Hollywood movies are often make or break for the company that made them. It's not unusual for entire companies to go under just because of a single bad movie, or even just bad luck (movies released at the same time as bigger movies, or movies released just after the outbreak of war or other calamities). Movies make the majority of their potential profit in their opening weeks, after which it's a pittance. And if your movie is a flop, the next movie has to make an even bigger profit in order to justify the studio's existence.

Mind you, Hollywood often lies too. For example, Lucasfilm has claimed that Return of Jedi "never made a profit" despite grossing ten times its budget.

But even taking into the lies and Hollywood accounting, there's no denying that movie-making is one of the biggest high-risk industries out there. Movies are a non-essential luxury and their success is based entirely on the whimsical tastes of the audience at release date.

Quote
It also grossed less than 10 million where Iron Man 3 grossed over a billion.  :-\

Doesn't mean that Iron Man 3 is better from a story-telling perspective, but epic films are just on a different scale.

thats only because its a popular title, you can make the same film using bollywood equipment.

Technically they can, but there are reasons Bollywood hasn't produced comparable takes on epic superhero movies. Compare Iron Man to this 2016 Bollywood superhero movie.

And popularity itself is a big incentive for making a movie. Popularity is directly proportional to profit after all.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 08:35:19 pm by Shiakou »

Offline Johnny D

  • Member
  • Posts: 252
  • Kinda dumb
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2016, 07:33:51 am »
Torrents are harder and herder to find. :(
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 9280
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2016, 07:47:04 am »
Torrents are harder and herder to find. :(

why would you even herd a torrent?

Offline Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1738
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2016, 07:56:56 am »
Harder to find..?

Not that I've seen, so far.

Online Shiakou

  • Member
  • Posts: 832
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2016, 09:10:21 am »
Torrents are harder and herder to find. :(

why would you even herd a torrent?

There's your problem. You don't herd torrents, you put them to seed.

Offline Johnny D

  • Member
  • Posts: 252
  • Kinda dumb
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2016, 11:28:30 am »
Many sites that I've frequented to download from have been closed.
There's still plenty to chose from but getting fewer and the sites that still exist, experience more and more problems.
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Offline Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1738
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2016, 04:03:05 pm »
I haven't seen any reduction in the rough number of torrent sites; it's always been a changing field out there, as the sites battle against rightsholders and governments.  Furthermore, I very often use Google to directly search for torrents :happy:

Nor have any of the site closings so far been due to the TPP, which hasn't been enacted yet.

Online Shiakou

  • Member
  • Posts: 832
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2016, 08:14:00 pm »
I see the opposite trend. Stuff has been getting easier and easier for me to get since 1998. My personal experience stands in direct defiance of the idea that digital piracy is somehow dying out. If anything, legitimate sources are compromising by creating more options and making stuff cheaper.

Offline Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1738
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2016, 09:25:41 pm »
Exactly.  The methods change, but it's become increasingly easy over the past couple decades.  Take it from a guy who was pirating Commodore 64 games back when they were NEW, both in person (swapping disks) and over 300 baud* (tweaked to 420-450, woo! :laugh:) modems.  I betcha a zillion dollars anyone who owned one of those buggers had a FAT 5-1/4" floppy disk carrier, crammed with pirated swag!

Argue the right or wrong of it 'til you're blue in the face, human nature is rather constant.  If you cannot find a way to adapt to it you WILL lose, eventually, as history proves time and time again.
________
*Baud rate is NOT necessarily equivalent to bits per second, by the by =) .
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 09:33:22 pm by Bozobub »

Offline Spiku

  • Member
  • Posts: 32
Re: Will piracy survive TPP and rule 41?
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2016, 09:19:18 am »
Short answer: It will survive.

Long answer: It will survive, but the way things move it will get increasingly difficult. Specially the old stuff, will be a bitch to find. New will always have ways to get. So start backing up.

Changes don't happen overnight. We were blessed and very lucky that the net was new and there wasn't a framework for it. We lived a Wild NEt West. Now we live the in the period of an establishing Net legislation control, which will put the net inside a framework of rules/laws.

Legislation moves slowly. And one morning,when it's fully established and active, you realize you start living in a different Era. Question is, what direction it will go. None knows yet,but the ones in control always have a serious advantage. And Artificial AI will make it extremely easy to supervise the WHOLE net.

Change comes in sprouts. Not slowly. It stalls and at some point instantly pops. Like height growth. So start backing up your stuff.