Author Topic: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."  (Read 2435 times)

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2016, 09:49:25 am »
with how thoroughly mixed up the human gene pool is, who knows whether your wife or husband is a distant relative of yours.

in any case, the implied "incest" is just one of those stupid parts of human morals.
like "murder is bad" yet how many deaths had there been through out human history...

Isn't murder different from killing tho? Killing is a much broader term that includes manslaughter, pure accidents, self-defense, state-sanctioned execution, combat in war . . .

Basically, some forms of killing are ok, some forms are not. Killing is still generally considered a last resort since its one of those things you cannot take back.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2016, 10:00:29 am »
with how thoroughly mixed up the human gene pool is, who knows whether your wife or husband is a distant relative of yours.

in any case, the implied "incest" is just one of those stupid parts of human morals.
like "murder is bad" yet how many deaths had there been through out human history...

Isn't murder different from killing tho? Killing is a much broader term that includes manslaughter, pure accidents, self-defense, state-sanctioned execution, combat in war . . .

Basically, some forms of killing are ok, some forms are not. Killing is still generally considered a last resort since its one of those things you cannot take back.

i wonder~ is it really different...?
who knows whether theres any righteous reason behind a committed murder.

try mentioning that to human rights practitioners.

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2016, 10:15:11 am »

i wonder~ is it really different...?
who knows whether theres any righteous reason behind a committed murder.

try mentioning that to human rights practitioners.

If you're wondering, then congratulations, you've reached the first step in the scientific process.  :laugh: Now, the next step is usually to further refine the question into something specific and practical.

And yes, even "human rights practitioners" will concede the difference. I should know, I practice human rights all the time.

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2016, 11:02:04 am »
with how thoroughly mixed up the human gene pool is, who knows whether your wife or husband is a distant relative of yours.

I meant it mostly for those relatives that live together in the same house/place, or lived as children.
For me incest is immoral in mostly psychological way for the reasons I described(especially from the parents point of view), not necessarily physical.
in any case, the implied "incest" is just one of those stupid parts of human morals.
like "murder is bad" yet how many deaths had there been through out human history...
it does make me wonder why the police and soldiers who've killed doesn't get life-imprisonment.

I stated in my 1st post here that the absolute worst is "politicians surviving the end of the Universe".
That indirectly answers your question: political reasons, that's why. With other words, if politicians decided to have those wars, they can't blame their "tools" - the soldiers, without taking any of the blame as handlers of those tools. It's preposterously illogical in any legal sense. So they blame no one, maybe God for allowing it! :whistle: Or promoting it! :o Like it was in the kings era, the will of the king = the will of God. :-\



PS: Jesus Christ was undermined completely on his 9th beatitude "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." Because the word of God (Kings) supersedes his Sons, obviously, DUUUH! Or maybe just God changed his mind since 1.5 thousand years ago when he wrote that Bible through the Apostles that wrote mostly about Jesus deeds and tongue as the ultimate update in Gods will. Well, SHIEEET, that makes you wonder upon what else he changed his mind also since then!? Now that another 500 years since the age of the kings has passed! And to think most wore christians in those days and haven't even realized that much! Was the human kind retarded in those days or what?! It's unbelievable really.
 
The probable cause that 1st comes to my mind is that common people in those times wore too poor to afford a Bible so they can read it themselves(or wore told they are too stupid to understand it and they believed it = wore stupid), and relied too much on the idiotic, manipulative dogmas of the church witch many times wore opposed to the Bible itself! And then I really don't understand the question that many ask "Why don't aliens contact us?". Well, when you have a so called book written by the will of your God as a species, and the very institution that is supposed to give teachings from that book, does many times the absolute reverse of it's teachings. :laugh: How can you for the name of good sense call upon such a species!? FUCK IT! Let's move on to the next galaxy, I would say if I would be an alien, and not look back once.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 11:31:33 am by Johnny D »
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2016, 11:39:34 am »
there is no god, only faith and belief exists.
and for the record, scientifically jesus is born from selfcest.



i wonder~ is it really different...?
who knows whether theres any righteous reason behind a committed murder.

try mentioning that to human rights practitioners.

If you're wondering, then congratulations, you've reached the first step in the scientific process.  :laugh: Now, the next step is usually to further refine the question into something specific and practical.

And yes, even "human rights practitioners" will concede the difference. I should know, I practice human rights all the time.

the difference is entirely based on the "reason" behind the act of "killing".
murder in general is often related to a negative reason, e.g. wrath, envy or greed.

a human's death by the hands of another human is normally frowned upon, otherwise the media wouldn't be all over these things.
so what if its justified as self-defense, or an act of lawful judgement, does this mean the other side wanted to die?
furthermore that person's relatives or friends would harbor hatred to those who'd caused his or her death.

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2016, 11:49:07 am »
That's why some other countries hate the US, because the US has killed their sons and daughters. There is really no excuse for that. If you really want to stop some conflicts, and abuses that someone does, you can find other methods other than bombarding them to settle it. The best would be to make partnerships with surrounding countries to isolate the particular zone, as it is a war zone it will need resources to sustain itself, so the choice will be in their hands, ultimately they will give in after executing some locals. It's still better then to throw bombs on everyone.
Today the drone-war is different, now you can kill almost exclusively whomever you deem worthy of death, but that does not excuse the wrong doings of the past that linger and transformed into terrorism today(alongside some ideological crap that was inflated by it). In time, terrorism will probably fade if such acts of bombarding women and children (regardless of the reasons - there's no reason for that), aren't repeated.

Maybe the exception was the atomic bomb(the jury's still out on that one), but that was also just the climax of a conflict that grew out of hand, children and women wore killed everywhere in those times and it had to stop at some point before we kill everyone on the planet or give in to an enslavement policy. And that was not even a century ago... Aliens!? Maybe next millennium, if we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Honestly, if you look at the past objectively, especially recent past, who would give the human species another millennium!? :laugh: That if we take out of consideration any global event catastrophe happening, in which we have no say, and there are plenty of those to chose from given 1000y time frame.

PS: I beg your pardon for the offtopic,I just watched 6ep of Versailles last 2 days and am bit fed up with kings, wars and politicians(modern nobles).:happy:
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 12:19:17 pm by Johnny D »
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2016, 12:32:47 pm »
Is it time for soapbox arguments again?

Let's see, politicians are bad, check.

Religion is bad, check.

Wars are bad, check.

Killing is bad, check.

It's all other people's fault, check.

Just another day on the internet.

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2016, 12:36:34 pm »
I was never a politician nor am I planning to become one, check.

I am not publicly religious, check.

I do not support or was ever in a war nor planning to be, check.

I never killed anyone nor planning to, check.

It's all other people's fault, check.

Just another day on the internet. :happy:
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2016, 12:40:36 pm »
There we go, the fact that we have differences in opinion regarding certain moral stances prove that nothing we've discussed so far is universal.  :laugh:

Honestly, we've gotten more "I don't like this stuff so everyone should not like it too!" statements in this thread rather than the original point of "Name stuff that everyone doesn't like."

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2016, 12:57:23 pm »
As I've apologized for the off topic, I was on topic on occasion, nobody likes rapes, right?
Except the rapists! :D That will get raped and possibly killed in prison because not even inmantes like them.

Again, there will always be some lunatic who will think "Oh, I agree with that!" regardless of what it is. So I see this topic more like "things that are by all societies considered as bad" not just by some groups of people. There are all kinds of sects and cults that kill themselves(or other sick stuff), so killing yourself would not be deemed as universally bad on account of those people. Eh...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 01:41:39 pm by Johnny D »
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2016, 01:15:36 pm »
The problem with saying "Oh those people are insane/in a cult so they don't count" is that there is no universal agreement, even outside said cults/insanity, on where to draw the line. And conveniently, it's always the other guys who are part of the cult/insane. Very few people have taken a look at their own group and said "No, WE are the ones who are insane."

As for rape, it's complicated. To say that rape has always been "bad" seems like a strong argument until you realize that the modern definition of rape (one or more participants of the act says "no", or is incapable of giving full consent) is very. . . modern. For example, in many countries, it is the duty of a husband or wife to put out when the other asks for it. Marital rape is a very recent thing for many societies because until recently women (and sometimes men) were forced into sexual acts on the basis that their spouse/husband has a right to have sex with them. And this was considered just and moral, because sex was a major part of the marriage contract.

Offline Tiffanys

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2016, 01:25:46 pm »
They don't make 'em like me anymore! 8)
Yo momma does!
Nope, my daddy's dead and my momma got her tubes tied. Production of this model has ended.

...unless I clone myself some day. Which, as a Geneticist is a distinct possibility.


Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2016, 01:49:22 pm »
Shiakou, everyone has problems, the true bad is when we don't want to discuss them.
And acceptance can only come when and where every form of liberty deprivations (rape inclusive - marital one too) is ended.
As for marital rape, they do sign a contract, the marital one dividing all assets, but nowhere there it's written to put out so if someone forces you too, even your husband, he acts outside the law, not to mention outside good sense. Foot in balls is the solution, resets his whole way of thinking. Maybe in the future that should be stated in the contract, forced intercourse may result in foot in balls (male) or black eye (woman) so do so, on your own cost. :P

That reminds me of a joke.
2 women friends meet on the street. One has a black eye, the other asks:
"What happened?"
"My husband came home!"
"Really? I thought he was in a delegation!"
"So did I!" 
:laugh:
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 01:58:33 pm by Johnny D »
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2016, 02:11:52 pm »
Irrelevant. The topic is not whether forced marital sex is right or wrong, the topic is that there are societies which disagree on whether this is right or wrong.

Hence, if you include forced marital sex under the heading of "rape", then "rape is bad" becomes obviously non-universal.

Though of course said societies would disagree that it constitutes rape. Whether they're right or wrong is for another thread, the point is that disagreement exists.

If you really want to discuss the whys and wherefores of morality, you really should make your own thread. This is not the "Why we should adopt my morality as the universal standard" thread.

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2016, 02:19:53 pm »
Exactly my point, there is no universally bad then. Some societies regard death as the release from this damned worlds torment.
Many said death is universally accepted as bad. It's their opinion as I have my own. Everything is an opinion then, this thread got it wrong.
My opinion is that rape is considered universally as wrong. Whoever doesn't consider it as such is not a human being, or is not of this Universe! :)

Same with disease, some idiotic societies consider it Gods (or a Deitys) punishment for whatever reason. Same with natural disasters, does that make them any less universally agreed as bad? Maybe, but then you have to contradict pretty much what anyone says, not just me.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:23:30 pm by Johnny D »
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2016, 02:22:13 pm »
incest was never rape to begin with, thats like saying sex is rape...


assented incest is relatively harmless, it is just one level higher of showing affection.
while inbreeding can be severely destructive, as it corrupts the genetic pool.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:26:20 pm by kitamesume »

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2016, 02:27:05 pm »
So in the end, we go back to my first post in this thread.

TLDR, I don't believe there's anything that can be universally agreed upon as bad, unless you start going "Oh, only a few dozen/hundred/thousand people disagree, so they don't count."

Time well spent.  :laugh:

Offline Johnny D

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2016, 02:28:23 pm »
incest was never rape to begin with, thats like saying sex is rape...


assented incest is relatively harmless, it is just one level higher of showing affection.
while inbreeding can be severely destructive, as it corrupts the genetic pool.


That's a very dangerous way of thinking. Incest has many detriments, one that is of them worse ones that comes to mind is confusing brotherly love to erotic love. Or dissing one for being another, transforming people into confused human beings that can easily self destruct on later stages.
It would be just one of those things that destroy what is sacred in us, what is pure, what is to be admired, and trades it for everything opposed to that.
I could say many more things upon why incest is one of the lowest attributes one could hope never to see, but I'll rest at that.
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

Do not go gentle into that good night, / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2016, 02:35:41 pm »
incest was never rape to begin with, thats like saying sex is rape...


assented incest is relatively harmless, it is just one level higher of showing affection.
while inbreeding can be severely destructive, as it corrupts the genetic pool.


That's a very dangerous way of thinking. Incest has many detriments, one that is of them worse ones that comes to mind is confusing brotherly love to erotic love. Or dissing one for being another, transforming people into confused human beings that can easily self destruct on later stages.
It would be just one of those things that destroy what is sacred in us, what is pure, what is to be admired, and trades it for everything opposed to that.
I could say many more things upon why incest is one of the lowest attributes one could hope never to see, but I'll rest at that.

is it? its not like it ends up becoming impossible to break up, you see couples breaking up so why can't they?
having incest is far from being severely destructive, and in fact it can deepen relationship and confidence with each other.


furthermore, the only reason why incest is even considered taboo is simply because it is linked to inbreeding, pedo tendencies, and rape.
this is quite similar to the image of what we have on guns, why gun bans are applied, guns are being deemed synonymous to killings.

humanity had already been thoroughly convinced that incest is a taboo, regardless if its between consensual adults or not.
its similar to same-sex marriage and polygamy, a large portion of humans are against it for no reasonable reason, they simply don't like it.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:52:47 pm by kitamesume »

Online Shiakou

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Re: Name some things universally agreed upon as "bad."
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2016, 03:07:08 pm »
furthermore, the only reason why incest is even considered taboo is simply because it is linked to inbreeding, pedo tendencies, and rape.

Well not quite the only reason. The Westermarck Effect is a thing, and it basically gives us an instinctual aversion to sexual attraction towards anyone we grew up with before the age of six. It's based on proximity, not blood-relation.

The effect can be surmounted, but its still there. There are cases of medieval nobility trying to raise their children together to encourage them to have feelings for one another only to have the opposite effect. At least one pair of royals was so affected that even tho they weren't related and were the best of friends, they never consummated their marriage, so great was their aversion to having sex with each other.