Author Topic: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?  (Read 7250 times)

Offline Reape

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2016, 05:30:52 pm »
You know, first America had a black president. Now they have a mentally disabled president. Proving one step at a time that America is, indeed, a land of opportunity.

Too soon?
We already had George W Bush.

I guess you did, at that. And Reagan. And Nixon. It's easy to forget the classics when a new entertaining show appears.
Nordic cultural imperialist.

Offline DespondenSea

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2016, 06:17:55 pm »
It is literally Florida's fault.

And, it is literally the fault of the 200,000 people who voted for Johnson.

Some outside perspective may be needed here.

If anyone got Trump elected democrats did by choosing the one candidate nobody wanted to win. Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. Pretty much everyone facing her would've beaten her, even a chimpanzee.

If you want to blame anyone, blame a political establishment that managed to turn a self deluded lunatic into the lesser of two evils. It would be funny, if Trump wasn't such a threat for the rest of the world.

No.

Your post illustrates one of the reasons that Trump got the traction he did.

This absurd false equivalence that Hillary is, somehow, even remotely as under qualified and dangerous as Donald Trump.


Offline Burkingam

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2016, 06:39:30 pm »
It looks like Clinton won the popular vote for what it's worth.
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Offline Tiffanys

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #63 on: November 09, 2016, 09:59:08 pm »
Well, I found something interesting...
Quote
If a Trump presidency makes you want to flee as far away as humanly possible, Svalbard may be for you - as long as you don't mind the cold.

The tiny archipelago has 2,642 residents and is largely self-governed.

The Immigration Act does not apply meaning no residence permit or visa is required to settle in Svalbard.

http://www.emb-norway.or.th/studywork/visaandresidence/svalbard/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Svalbard

Directly from their site:

Quote
Visa and entry to Svalbard

Everyone may, in principle, travel to Svalbard, and foreign nationals do not need a visa or a work or residence permit from Norwegian authorities in order to settle in Svalbard. Foreign nationals with visa requirements to the Schengen area do, however, need a valid Schengen visa if they travel through Schengen on their way to or from Svalbard. As all regular flights to the archipelago run between Longyearbyen and cities on the Norwegian mainland, all foreign nationals with visa requirements to the Schengen area do in practice need such a visa when traveling to and from Svalbard.

There is however something weird on their checklist: http://www.emb-norway.or.th/Documents/Bilder%20til%20hjemmesiden%20v%c3%a5r%202015/Bilder%20til%20hjemmesiden%20h%c3%b8st%202015/CHECKLIST%20SVALBARD%20ENG%20AP.pdf

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"Original compulsory travel medical insurance + 1 copy (covering the entire Schengen area for a minimum amount of € 30,000 for the duration of the time spent in the Schengen-area (as per travel plan submitted)"

Not sure what that means.

But I guess if all else fails and someone's really determined to leave the US, there's that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/a09e4/i_used_to_live_on_svalbard_for_four_years_ama/

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The main employer is SNSK, Store Norske Spitsbergen Kullkompani (The Great Norwegian Spitsbergen Coal Company) which handles all the mining of coal by Norwegians on the archipelago.

The jobs are highly sought-after, so most public employers (or major companies) hire for a set period, 3 or 4 years with a possibility for extentions. The pay is good, but the taxes are great. Flat tax of 13% when I lived there, but it's one up a bit now (about 20% I think). This is great in Norwegian terms.

The hard thing is getting a place to live. Most jobs come with an apartment, and that's good since there were no privately owned houses when I lived there. This has apparently changed somewhat as some private buildings have now been allowed.

To illustrate how hard it is/was to get a job there: I talked to a couple of medical doctors when I was up there. They were sowing lawns. Only job they could find. They were staying in the hotel on their own money. I guess they really wanted to live on Svalbard for a while.

It doesn't sound too desirable though. That's, of course, in addition to being a frigid arctic tundra.

edit: Oh and....

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Change your name to Abdul.

be unemployed

have lots of kids

go to Scandinavia with no iD

say you are a refugee from Syria.

They will not ask you for iD, and willl gladly put you on the welfare system. If anyone doubts you, use the race card, and the Swedish police will arrest your agressor.

easy piecey, much easier than getting a degree and a job to actually contribute to Scandinavia.

lol.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 10:02:18 pm by Tiffanys »

Offline Reape

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #64 on: November 09, 2016, 10:21:54 pm »
Quote
Change your name to Abdul.

be unemployed

have lots of kids

go to Scandinavia with no iD

say you are a refugee from Syria.

They will not ask you for iD, and willl gladly put you on the welfare system. If anyone doubts you, use the race card, and the Swedish police will arrest your agressor.

easy piecey, much easier than getting a degree and a job to actually contribute to Scandinavia.

lol.

Yeaah... that's not how it works.
Nordic cultural imperialist.

Offline Ixarku

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2016, 12:52:14 am »
It is literally Florida's fault.

And, it is literally the fault of the 200,000 people who voted for Johnson.

Some outside perspective may be needed here.

If anyone got Trump elected democrats did by choosing the one candidate nobody wanted to win. Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. Pretty much everyone facing her would've beaten her, even a chimpanzee.

If you want to blame anyone, blame a political establishment that managed to turn a self deluded lunatic into the lesser of two evils. It would be funny, if Trump wasn't such a threat for the rest of the world.

No.

Your post illustrates one of the reasons that Trump got the traction he did.

This absurd false equivalence that Hillary is, somehow, even remotely as under qualified and dangerous as Donald Trump.

1) Actually it is unfair for me to put this all on the Libertarian vote, since certainly a number of them never would have voted for Clinton regardless of their other choices.

2) I agree with DespondenSea.  By the latest report, Clinton won the popular vote by barely 200,000 votes.  Out of 119 million votes cast, we're talking a win of the popular vote by less than 2/10ths of a percent.  This was a win for Trump entirely because of the nature of the Electoral College; otherwise, the race was effectively a tie.

Regarding qualifications, Clinton is by a wide margin the more experienced politician of the two.  There's not even room for discussion on this.  Trump is the first President Elect in American history to have no prior military, political, or foreign policy experience.  This might have been fine for the 19th century when the U.S. was much less important, but in this day and age, it's an appalling lack of experience.  Let's not forget that the Republicans were having a fit over Obama's relative lack of experience when he won the Presidency.  But Obama at least had held public office before.


All that said, I do hold the DNC partly responsible for this outcome.  I think Sanders would have beaten Trump by a comfortable margin, and the fact that too many people bet on the safe establishment candidate (Clinton) instead is part of the reason we're where we are today.


The only real hope I have left is the possibility, however remote, that Trump will prove not to be the Orange Monster he portrayed during the campaign, and that perhaps he will dial it down and take a more moderate approach to governance.

I also think that this might be the end of Hillary Clinton's political career.  I haven't read the latest, so I don't know what she's said about it, but I will be surprised if she runs again in 2020.  I think her window of opportunity has closed.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Fool010

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2016, 01:21:18 am »
You guys are missing my point completely. People were asked to chose between Cruella and Bozo, and decided to pick the clown.

Hillary didn't fail because she wasn't a good enough presidential candidate since Trump doesn't even qualify in that field, she failed because she represents the political establishment and because she's not appealing. Under any reasonable circumstances a loon like Trump should've been squashed on election day, yet he came out as the winner even if by the smallest margin.

Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.
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Offline Ixarku

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2016, 03:40:50 am »
You guys are missing my point completely. People were asked to chose between Cruella and Bozo, and decided to pick the clown.

Hillary didn't fail because she wasn't a good enough presidential candidate since Trump doesn't even qualify in that field, she failed because she represents the political establishment and because she's not appealing. Under any reasonable circumstances a loon like Trump should've been squashed on election day, yet he came out as the winner even if by the smallest margin.

Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.


I think your original choice of words was a bit poor.  But understanding now what you're really saying, it is somewhat similar to something I just recently said elsewhere -- which is that this election cycle was all about the populist candidates.  It was about the parties not listening to what their constituents wanted and instead telling us what was good for us and expecting us to just go along with it.  The DNC managed to defeat the populist on the Left, while the populist on the Right usurped the Republican party, and contrary to every expectation and prediction, managed to defeat the opposing establishment candidate.  It's apparent now that quite a few of us overestimated Clinton's chances.  I think we acknowledged the strength of the populist sentiment on the Right, while also underestimating the same sentiment and its negative repercussions on the Left.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline halfelite

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2016, 04:23:10 am »

I think your original choice of words was a bit poor.  But understanding now what you're really saying, it is somewhat similar to something I just recently said elsewhere -- which is that this election cycle was all about the populist candidates.  It was about the parties not listening to what their constituents wanted and instead telling us what was good for us and expecting us to just go along with it.  The DNC managed to defeat the populist on the Left, while the populist on the Right usurped the Republican party, and contrary to every expectation and prediction, managed to defeat the opposing establishment candidate.  It's apparent now that quite a few of us overestimated Clinton's chances.  I think we acknowledged the strength of the populist sentiment on the Right, while also underestimating the same sentiment and its negative repercussions on the Left.

I agree with this 100%. If you look at the polling data Trump did not perform outside of the normal his votes came from all the same people that voted for say Romney back in 2012. The difference was in the amount of votes Hilary was bringing in. She lost Wisconsin that has been blue since 1984. As everyone is saying this election came down to votes from the working middle class. I think the left thought they could ride on Obama's coat tails and bring in the amount of voters he did outside of the working middle class. But it did not happen and Clinton totally lost out on a huge voting population.

On a different note this is one of the only forums I have seen where you can have a decent political talk. Every other forum it starts off decent then within the first 5 posts you have people calling everyone dumb or stupid if they supported trump or calling Hillary a criminal and such. This election cycle while both candidates had huge flaws across the board was also one of I think the might have actually driven people to actually think before they voted. While everyone jokes all Trump supports are racist rednecks and all Clinton supports are cry baby liberals the numbers show that a bit of cross voting happened with people jumping sides and paying attention to what they actually wanted from each candidate.

Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2016, 05:36:45 am »
^ Indeed. I don't post anything in this subforum normally, but I still read the stuff that goes here.
Quote
That's it! I've come up with a new recipe!

Offline metro.

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2016, 06:40:22 am »
You guys are missing my point completely. People were asked to chose between Cruella and Bozo, and decided to pick the clown.

Hillary didn't fail because she wasn't a good enough presidential candidate since Trump doesn't even qualify in that field, she failed because she represents the political establishment and because she's not appealing. Under any reasonable circumstances a loon like Trump should've been squashed on election day, yet he came out as the winner even if by the smallest margin.

Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.

Well at least your name is accurate. If you honestly think Clinton is evil than I guess the Republican party really does actually have the best fucking marketing department I've ever seen.

Clinton is like Oatmeal for breakfast, boring but probably a good call in the long run. Trump is Lucky Charms, exciting but probably fatal.

The biggest issue the Dems have, (aside from horrible voter turn out, with 100% turnout it's nearly a guarantee the Clintonator wins) is that she is not Obama. If we continue to stretch this horrible breakfast food metaphor, Obama is more like... an omelette. Good for you and actually tasty.



it should be noted, I saw some stats some where that one of Clinton's biggest unfavorables was her being a woman. what the fuck america.

at the movies drunk & young

Offline Tanis

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2016, 08:14:59 am »
You know how non-whites or Muslims seem to automatically apologize anytime one of them commits an act of terror or bigotry, as if there's some kind of penalty if they do not?

I feel like that with Trump becoming president.

It's like I need to apologize on behalf of all white/Americans to the world and non-white Americans.

'I'm sorry our nation, mainly white people, fucked up and elected a racist, misogynistic, pro-strongman, anti-freedom, pro-Putin, anti-science, bigot.
Please allow me to toss out some hashtags in both solidarity and shame. We are not all stuck in 1938.'
#NotAllWhitePeople #NotAllAmericans #NotMyPresident



Offline Fool010

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2016, 08:24:50 am »
You guys are missing my point completely. People were asked to chose between Cruella and Bozo, and decided to pick the clown.

Hillary didn't fail because she wasn't a good enough presidential candidate since Trump doesn't even qualify in that field, she failed because she represents the political establishment and because she's not appealing. Under any reasonable circumstances a loon like Trump should've been squashed on election day, yet he came out as the winner even if by the smallest margin.

Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.

Well at least your name is accurate. If you honestly think Clinton is evil than I guess the Republican party really does actually have the best fucking marketing department I've ever seen.

I said nothing of that, I merely stated Hillary had pretty much the same appeal as a bear trap. I may not agree with Trump but at least he has some measure of charisma, Hillary on the other hand is much closer to my personal political stance but as a person she is repulsive.

If you really want to call me an idiot, you should start by not misunderstanding what I'm saying.

American politics aren't only about political programs, they're also about who -in the sense of what person- you're voting for. When your economy runs fine populist rhetoric appeals essentially to the lower classes, but as the machine loses traction the gap between lower and middle classes grows narrower. Hence populists get a wider audience and become attractive to people who wouldn't listen to them otherwise.

That's where the Dems dropped the ball. Trump sold his people a "I'm gonna help you" program which people bought despite it being a blatant lie because it's what they wanted to hear. Clinton on the other hand played the usual political game and never managed to connect with those who supported Trump not out of conviction, but of out of concern for the future. She didn't fight Trump over his ideas, she fought him on a personal level. Average Joe doesn't care about society becoming fairer, he actually doesn't even want it to be, he wants to be convincingly told his issues matter. In his own twisted way Trump managed to sound that way, while Clinton came over as just another politician essentially representing those who are already above needing help.

Ultimately she failed because she didn't try to prove she wasn't what people thought she is, while Trump managed to convince enough people he was what he isn't. Yes Trump probably deserves every demeaning epithet he's been thrown to his face but if you wanted to defeat him you should've taken his program apart, not get personal. This happened because too many though can't happen here and did nothing to prevent it. You don't let your home burn down, you call the firefighters before it's too late.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:00:35 am by Fool010 »
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Offline Sebur

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2016, 08:41:09 am »
As a Swede living in California, I don't care whether you voted Hillary or trump. Most people whom I spoke to before hand were voting for the person they believed would help this country out the most. No ill intentions, none of the current perpetuated hate. Both sides voted because they want the best for the U.S., and I fucking love the U.S., and I love you all for caring.
Now relax, don't hate, unite.

Fubuki Bless.


Offline Johnny D

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2016, 09:17:16 am »
Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.

Exactly my point. Both parties have screwed up bad, but republicans won so I guess you can't say that anymore about them.
It's the human urge to light up the dark corners for answers in other people… but at the end of the day, there are no answers there.
Just more lives as sad and singular as your own.

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Offline Ixarku

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2016, 09:18:29 am »
On a different note this is one of the only forums I have seen where you can have a decent political talk. Every other forum it starts off decent then within the first 5 posts you have people calling everyone dumb or stupid if they supported trump or calling Hillary a criminal and such. This election cycle while both candidates had huge flaws across the board was also one of I think the might have actually driven people to actually think before they voted. While everyone jokes all Trump supports are racist rednecks and all Clinton supports are cry baby liberals the numbers show that a bit of cross voting happened with people jumping sides and paying attention to what they actually wanted from each candidate.

Yeah, it's nice to actually be able to have a conversation with people of differing views without it degenerating too much.  It gives me a little bit of hope.  I also saw my friend's daughter post on FB an infographic showing how young people voted this time, and it was blue almost completely across the board.  It gives me some reassurance that, although we might shift towards something ugly (e.g. more bigotry) in the short-term, long-term, we may still head in the right direction.  I don't have a problem with people wanting a conservative approach on fiscal policies -- that at least is usually rooted in logic -- but on the social side, there aren't a lot of things that I find acceptable in the conservative p.o.v.

On the flip side, in one of many ironies this election season, Trump spent his campaign terrifying his supporters over what would happen if he wasn't elected, and now, many of his opponents (including me) are terrified about what will happen now that he *is* elected.  I have to take some reassurance that the Republicans don't have 60 votes in the Senate, and Mitch McConnell, who I normally can't stand, has apparently already said no to several of Trump's agenda items.  So there are some signs that some of the more insane parts of Trump's agenda aren't going to get rubber stamped.

We're going to get one or more conservative Supreme Court justices, that's a done deal.  It enrages me that this validates the sit-on-our-hands-and-do-nothing approach that Congress took to Obama's nominee.  That will go down in history as a great Republican victory.  I think it's reprehensible, not because of the outcome, but because Congress refused to even hold hearings on the nominee.



I'm so very tired of the political and social climate in this country.  I'd like to be somewhere more tolerant.  Doesn't have to be more liberal, just more tolerant of differences of opinion.  I don't know if such a place really exists outside of my imagination.  Part of me thinks I need to turn off the news and stay away from news-related websites for a while, but I'm not sure if I can resist the temptation.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Fool010

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2016, 09:29:46 am »
On a different note this is one of the only forums I have seen where you can have a decent political talk.

Discussion among people of dissenting opinions without it turning into a mudslinging contest is possible, it's called being reasonable. It used to be something you'd expect from any adult.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:50:54 am by Fool010 »
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Offline DespondenSea

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2016, 10:51:48 am »
Even if Trump isn't the president your people wanted, Hillary definitely is the president they didn't want. Her being undoubtedly more competent for the job is irrelevant here.

Exactly my point. Both parties have screwed up bad, but republicans won so I guess you can't say that anymore about them.

Or you could say they won in spite of screwing up.

Besides, given Trump's record of playing well with others, especially those in his own party, this might be a truly Pyrrhic victory.

He released his '100 days' proposal, the legislation he will introduce within 100 days of taking office, and that fucking wall is on there.

It is literally not possible to do that.


Offline xfreidax

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2016, 01:23:06 pm »
It'd make a great tourist attraction...

Offline undetz

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Re: Who will win the 2016 US Presidential election?
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2016, 02:40:48 pm »
Besides, given Trump's record of playing well with others, especially those in his own party, this might be a truly Pyrrhic victory.

He released his '100 days' proposal, the legislation he will introduce within 100 days of taking office, and that fucking wall is on there.

It is literally not possible to do that.
I'm pretty sure that wall being on his list is an act of intentional insanity. It'll allow him to say that he wanted to keep his promises but the Senate and Congress are obstructing him. If he takes it far enough (and given his behaviour so far, he very well might) I think there's a good chance the trainwreck will be big enough that the democrats might take the Senate or Congress, and possibly both, in 2 years time.