Author Topic: US Civil War #2 incoming?  (Read 831 times)

Offline Tiffanys

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US Civil War #2 incoming?
« on: November 11, 2016, 12:36:08 am »
I don't know if you guys have heard about it but there are massive anti-Trump protests going on all over the United States.







What's more, California is already seriously talking about seceding: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/09/trump-win-california-secede-calexit-silicon-valley

Here's an interesting read regarding what might happen with massive civil uprisings - http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/full-spectrum-operations-in-the-homeland-a-%E2%80%9Cvision%E2%80%9D-of-the-future

Offline krumm

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 12:49:59 am »
It will die down.  they are only destroying the cities anyway.  The fact that they think the US as a whole gives a shit about Cali is just kinda funny tho.  A lot of people would be happy to see it float out to sea.


http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:57:49 am by krumm »

Online Krudda

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 01:07:44 am »
Is it Hitler, or Trumpler?

Offline krumm

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 01:15:29 am »
Is it Hitler, or Trumpler?

I've never understood the Hitler comparisons.  If anything Hilary had more in common

Offline Tiffanys

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 01:30:39 am »
Is it Hitler, or Trumpler?

I've never understood the Hitler comparisons.  If anything Hilary had more in common
Check out my post here: https://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=46388.msg5131052#msg5131052

I read through some of Sun Tzu's quotes from "The Art of War" and found some interesting things regarding the U.S. Election.
Trump's tactics are mostly the opposite of those suggested by the quotes.
Look up the works of Joseph Goebbels instead, in regards to how to run a campaign. I'm not exaggerating, or just saying "oh look this guy was a Nazi, Trump is Hitler." I'm being very serious. Just read some of his quotes. You can get into it more if you really want to, but the way Trump is running his campaign is strikingly similar.

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, and this will always be "the man in the street." Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology."

"Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred."

"...the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious."

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

"It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise." (something tells me Trump took that one to heart in every aspect of his life)

"We enter parliament in order to supply ourselves, in the arsenal of democracy, with its own weapons. If democracy is so stupid as to give us free tickets and salaries for this bear's work, that is its affair. We do not come as friends, nor even as neutrals. We come as enemies. As the wolf bursts into the flock, so we come."

"Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street."

"The masses need something that will give them a thrill of horror."

"A media system wants ostensible diversity that conceals an actual uniformity"

"If you tell a lie, tell a big one."

"If we have power, we'll never give it up again unless we're carried out of our offices as corpses"

"One should not as a rule reveal one's secrets, since one does not know if and when one may need them again. The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous."

Or, well, here's a bit less randomized in regards to his thoughts on propaganda.

But it's not just Goebbels. There's striking similarities to Hitler as well. People that say that really aren't just saying that for the sake of calling him Hitler, like we often do anyone we don't like these days. Have a look: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/expert-on-nazism-explains-the-shocking-similarities-between-trump-and-hitlers-propaganda-tactics/

I am not afraid of Trump nearly as much as I am of the next that comes along far more clever than Trump that there isn't any obvious thing we can point to as to say that person is unfit or terrible. Because that person, that is the person to be afraid of. The United States could see the rise of a dictator far worse than Hitler. Our political climate is right for it right now. It's something we should be vary wary of.

Offline Tiffanys

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 02:15:24 am »
Update: It seems that Oregon is talking about seceding too... http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/after_trump_victory_oregonians.html

Offline krumm

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 03:22:51 am »
I think there are 4 states that are talking about it.  If I am wrong I will be highly surprised, but all this will blow over in a little time.  We will never know, but i would not be surprised if a majority of the protesters did not even vote.  flyover country is pissed at the current government and their bullshit and they spoke.  If it was just the bigots and rednecks voting for trump he would have never got the vote.  pop vote means nothing when places like new york have no voter id laws.

I live in ohio and it has been going more red by the years.  Obama is hated by just about everyone in the working class here, even near the cities.  We all voted for him and got the finger.  Hillary was more of the same old shit.  the media has taken over, our pres apologizes to our enemies and gives them nukes, he talks down on our heroes and praises violence.  this should be a wake up call.  I was ready for 4 more years of shit.  we may still get shit but I have hope for the first time my entire voting life.  this time it seems we got someone that is hopefully different.  Before this election I had voted on only one person that was red.

I'm not going to argue my side but anyone that cares does not have to look very far into why Hillary was terrible and lost.

Offline surdumil

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 06:41:09 am »
I doubt that this has anything to do with Hillary Clinton any more.
It has more to do with the divisive exclusionary racist misogynistic anti-minority nonsense that Trump based his campaign on.
It looks like half of the U.S. doesn't seem to care for that junk so much.
Nope, not much at all.
With guns so prolific, it'll be a wonder if he doesn't get himself shot.
He'll need to go all ISIS and surround himself with human shields, I suspect.




Offline Ixarku

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2016, 10:21:50 am »
I doubt that this has anything to do with Hillary Clinton any more.
It has more to do with the divisive exclusionary racist misogynistic anti-minority nonsense that Trump based his campaign on.
It looks like half of the U.S. doesn't seem to care for that junk so much.
Nope, not much at all.
With guns so prolific, it'll be a wonder if he doesn't get himself shot.
He'll need to go all ISIS and surround himself with human shields, I suspect.


It is, of course, more complex than this.  I have, for instance, one old friend, more just an acquaintance now, who is a diehard Catholic.  He's educated, intelligent, not white, not racist at all, and extremely conservative.  Trump's anti-abortion stance, among a few other things, led him to support Trump.  We do have a significant religious population here who wholeheartedly rejects a lot of what the Democrats stand for.  I've no doubt that the Catholic block and other members of the Christian Right had a strong influence on the outcome of the election... and not necessarily because of racism.



It will die down.  they are only destroying the cities anyway.  The fact that they think the US as a whole gives a shit about Cali is just kinda funny tho.  A lot of people would be happy to see it float out to sea.

I think you're correct.  We fought one war already over secession.  I don't think anyone is prepared, mentally or otherwise, to fight another.  And I don't think that the rule of law here supports secession.  However, I think I would like to see the breakup of the U.S.  I'm sick of the divisiveness, and I'm beginning to think that reconciliation of these opposing sides simply isn't possible.  I don't see signs that it will end any time soon.  Maybe in another 20 years, the balance will finally have shifted enough towards one side or the other.


I've seen several calls for unity so far from celebrities and other speakers on the Left.  My response to these is that unity isn't good enough.  It's a nice sentiment but it does nothing to assuage the fears that Trump has stoked, fears about his intentions, his agenda, or his capabilities.  We don't owe him an open-mind or a chance to do the job.  Trust and respect have to be earned, and he has done nothing yet to deserve those things.  I reject the calls for unity; instead, the priority for every citizen now should be vigilance.  The voters have given Trump the rope; now we need to make sure that he doesn't hang us all with it.


I've also given it some thought, and today I signed one petition for the abolition of the Electoral College.  I understand the purpose of it, but I think it's time we moved in a different direction.  I don't know that direct election of the President would be any better, but the fact that a person can win a majority of the Electoral votes and not win the popular vote is absolutely intolerable.  At minimum, the institution needs reform.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Al_Sleeper

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Offline Reape

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 12:53:17 pm »
Why is it always war with you guys? Just let them secede.

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/lab/5851650732.html
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/npo/5865025090.html

Democracy at its finest :whistle:.

Indeed, considering Trumpet boy lost the popular vote.
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Offline DespondenSea

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 03:43:30 pm »


Quote
I'm not going to argue my side

Really?

I think there are 4 states that are talking about it.  If I am wrong I will be highly surprised, but all this will blow over in a little time.  We will never know, but i would not be surprised if a majority of the protesters did not even vote.  flyover country is pissed at the current government and their bullshit and they spoke.  If it was just the bigots and rednecks voting for trump he would have never got the vote.  pop vote means nothing when places like new york have no voter id laws.

I live in ohio and it has been going more red by the years.  Obama is hated by just about everyone in the working class here, even near the cities.  We all voted for him and got the finger.  Hillary was more of the same old shit.  the media has taken over, our pres apologizes to our enemies and gives them nukes, he talks down on our heroes and praises violence.  this should be a wake up call.  I was ready for 4 more years of shit.  we may still get shit but I have hope for the first time my entire voting life.  this time it seems we got someone that is hopefully different.  Before this election I had voted on only one person that was red.


 :P

Offline Tiffanys

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 06:52:01 pm »
I think you're correct.  We fought one war already over secession.  I don't think anyone is prepared, mentally or otherwise, to fight another.  And I don't think that the rule of law here supports secession.  However, I think I would like to see the breakup of the U.S.  I'm sick of the divisiveness, and I'm beginning to think that reconciliation of these opposing sides simply isn't possible.  I don't see signs that it will end any time soon.
I've been saying for a long time now that Lincoln not allowing the Confederate states to secede was a mistake. It was a lawful secession at that point. It was only ruled by the Supreme Court after the fact that it was unlawful.

States can legally secede in the present day however. The 1869 Supreme Court ruling Texas v. White suggests that there are only two ways for a state to leave the union: "through revolution or through consent of the States." Legislatures of two-thirds of the states would have to consent. I'm not sure what the "revolution" portion there means.

But I do believe the United States should not have been forced to stay together when half the states tried to secede. It's created a deep divide in our nation that has not and likely never will heal. We're too ideologically different. We've had decades now of a do-nothing Congress that has done considerably less even than the Congresses in the past that were dubbed the do-nothing Congresses. The country is far too bipartisan and honestly both sides would be better off not having to deal with the other side. Each would get to have their way without having to bicker with the other side constantly and grind progress to a standstill. I don't see how either side would be opposed to that.

With that said, I don't think states will secede nor will we have a Civil War. But I sure wish one of those two things would happen because it's gotten to the point that I don't see us ever coming together again. We're too deeply divided. We're no longer the United States of America.

Offline krumm

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 09:55:46 pm »


Quote
I'm not going to argue my side any farther then this

Really?

I think there are 4 states that are talking about it.  If I am wrong I will be highly surprised, but all this will blow over in a little time.  We will never know, but i would not be surprised if a majority of the protesters did not even vote.  flyover country is pissed at the current government and their bullshit and they spoke.  If it was just the bigots and rednecks voting for trump he would have never got the vote.  pop vote means nothing when places like new york have no voter id laws.

I live in ohio and it has been going more red by the years.  Obama is hated by just about everyone in the working class here, even near the cities.  We all voted for him and got the finger.  Hillary was more of the same old shit.  the media has taken over, our pres apologizes to our enemies and gives them nukes, he talks down on our heroes and praises violence.  this should be a wake up call.  I was ready for 4 more years of shit.  we may still get shit but I have hope for the first time my entire voting life.  this time it seems we got someone that is hopefully different.  Before this election I had voted on only one person that was red.


 :P

sry left a few words out.  I just don't feel like reading walls of text or writing them.

Online Krudda

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2016, 06:57:51 am »

Offline MangaMunster

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2016, 09:31:25 am »
At the risk of being entirely offensive, the people acting the worst, seem to be, in the main, rich bratty 'whites.' (Being 'white' myself, if that is 'racism', I would hope anyone offended not be overly so.)

I'm guessing this is because minorities are honestly afraid and realize just how wild the current swing is. (Apparently there have already have been incidents.) While the rich kids lack any sort of common sense. I would also guess more than a few are full on sociopaths. (There was a rather scary study I read about how the percentages of sociopaths in the general public may be much higher than we would generally think.)

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/as-many-as-12-million-americans-are-sociopaths.html (This wasn't the study I read -it suggested around 15m - but it's at least something.)

Those kids will eventually calm down and find others to (ironically) victimize. Beyond that, it's up to Trump & team to rise above.

The Civil War was somewhat organized groups. This would just be full on mayhem. The thoughts on a "savior" after that generally assume something worse.

Here's hoping for much ado about nothing.


Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2016, 06:06:09 am »
At the risk of being entirely offensive, the people acting the worst, seem to be, in the main, rich bratty 'whites.' (Being 'white' myself, if that is 'racism', I would hope anyone offended not be overly so.)

So the SJWs. :laugh:
Quote
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Offline Tiffanys

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2016, 05:49:54 pm »
Well, for everyone that wants to move to Canada... it looks like you may not have to if you live in California, Oregon, or Washington. Instead, you could just become Canada. https://thinkpol.ca/2016/11/12/canadians-invite-california-oregon-and-washington-to-join-canada/

Offline capnmorgan

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Re: US Civil War #2 incoming?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2016, 05:56:13 pm »
We survived eight years of W. I think we can survive four of this guy.


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