Author Topic: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...  (Read 1312 times)

Offline jagdtigger

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2016, 11:31:48 am »
@halfelite
I dont think allowing the disks to spin down is a good idea. Just from the physics point of view its just means more strain on the moving parts... ::) Its just doesn't worth it when one disk uses ~5W in the worst case. And it will eat your savings when it spins up and suck in that 1,7A peak current.

Offline halfelite

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2016, 08:47:01 pm »
@halfelite
I dont think allowing the disks to spin down is a good idea. Just from the physics point of view its just means more strain on the moving parts... ::) Its just doesn't worth it when one disk uses ~5W in the worst case. And it will eat your savings when it spins up and suck in that 1,7A peak current.

its not so much for power saving but heat saving and noise saving. I am running a total of 36 drives. In my NAS units. Under my current ZFS installs they stay spinning 24/7 when you switch to unraid it does not function like raidz2 where a file is spread across all drives. The complete file is kept on a single drive and the copy is spread across multiple drives. So For my Media Folders I can have it store media across 4 drives and only the 4 drives would spin up not all 36 drives. This way I can cut back on the amount of air I need to move. My current supermicro 846 running 24 drives with Noctua fans running on high still has drive temps around 37C I would like to get that down around 30C without adding louder fans.

Offline jagdtigger

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2016, 01:04:34 am »
@halfelite
I dont think allowing the disks to spin down is a good idea. Just from the physics point of view its just means more strain on the moving parts... ::) Its just doesn't worth it when one disk uses ~5W in the worst case. And it will eat your savings when it spins up and suck in that 1,7A peak current.

its not so much for power saving but heat saving and noise saving. I am running a total of 36 drives. In my NAS units. Under my current ZFS installs they stay spinning 24/7 when you switch to unraid it does not function like raidz2 where a file is spread across all drives. The complete file is kept on a single drive and the copy is spread across multiple drives. So For my Media Folders I can have it store media across 4 drives and only the 4 drives would spin up not all 36 drives. This way I can cut back on the amount of air I need to move. My current supermicro 846 running 24 drives with Noctua fans running on high still has drive temps around 37C I would like to get that down around 30C without adding louder fans.
Unless you were "dumb" enough to put that beast into the bedroom(like me with my NAS :D ) i dont understand the concern for the noise they making... And i think those temps are already pretty much ok IMHO. The HDD's in my main NAS are always above 40°C but they seem to be comfortable with it.

/EDIT
Just checked the HDD in my "Archive" NAS(it contains god to have data but its not that critical to be stored on the RAID1 volume of the main NAS). WD Green, Load_cycle_count: 497157 :o , power_on_hours: 26117. All of the other critical attributes are at 0.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 01:10:13 am by jagdtigger »

Online kitamesume

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2016, 03:12:59 am »
temp tolerance depends on the HDD model and also brand, seagate barracuda in particular are quite sensitive to temperature.

Offline halfelite

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2016, 04:47:06 am »

Unless you were "dumb" enough to put that beast into the bedroom(like me with my NAS :D ) i dont understand the concern for the noise they making... And i think those temps are already pretty much ok IMHO. The HDD's in my main NAS are always above 40°C but they seem to be comfortable with it.

/EDIT
Just checked the HDD in my "Archive" NAS(it contains god to have data but its not that critical to be stored on the RAID1 volume of the main NAS). WD Green, Load_cycle_count: 497157 :o , power_on_hours: 26117. All of the other critical attributes are at 0.

No they are located in the closet in my office downstairs not a bedroom. My main NAS using the seagate NAS 4tb drives are sitting at Power_On_Hours 14917.  Not sure about the old backup NAS I will have to check it in a bit But the original drives still kicking should be around 35,000 hours or more. When I built my SC846 case I shopped around for month to find the SQ model power supplies which cut noise down considerable. Then changed from the passive cooled CPU cooler to an active cooler and swapped out the original supermicro fans for Noctua fans 

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2016, 06:23:35 am »
WD RED drives are quite resistant to vibration, well, at least compared to Seagate DM series.

I have mounted a Seagate DM drive inside a case and started MHDD to check for problems. I noticed that if I drop a coin on the PC case from a few centimeters height, the drive freezes for about one second.

This does nothing for the WD RED drives, I had to hit the case with my fist to see any reaction from the drive.

Also, WD RED drives have TLER enabled by default, which is always good.
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Offline Tiffanys

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2016, 03:49:07 am »
Well, I got the 8TB IronWolf. I had to spend about 20 minutes shaving off (more like sawing off) a plastic stud in the bottom of my HDD enclosure so that it would fit, and it wouldn't work with my case's screwless design because it's missing the middle HDD holes, so I had to secure it with only two screws in the front. Seems snug enough though...

It seems to be running fine so far but SMART says that ECC Error Rate is FAIL. Everything else is OK. Not sure what that even means. Google doesn't turn up anything. It's a lot faster than my WD Red.

4TB WD Red: 21 read, 62 write, 171 IOPS.
8TB IronWolf: 223 read, 254 write, 7771 IOPS
1TB 840 EVO SSD: 1069 read, 978 write, 83994 IOPS

I threw my SSD in there just for giggles.

I keep most of my games on the WD Red so I'm copying them over to the new IronWolf. I'll swap drive letters once it's done. It should perform a lot better...

Offline megido-rev.M

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2016, 04:13:14 am »
I think ECC has to do with recovering from data corruption. Saw error messages about it one time when I was copying files off an external drive to reformat it.
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Offline Pentium100

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2016, 03:59:57 am »
It seems to be running fine so far but SMART says that ECC Error Rate is FAIL. Everything else is OK. Not sure what that even means. Google doesn't turn up anything. It's a lot faster than my WD Red.

It most likely means that the drive has problems reading the data, but is later able to read it correctly.
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Offline jagdtigger

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2016, 11:53:39 am »
@Tiffanys
I do not think that this is normal in case of a new drive, keep a close eye on it...

Offline Krudda

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2016, 01:09:10 am »
Did you get it from Newegg? They sell a lot of "exchanged" and refurbished stuff but tell you its new.

Offline JoonasTo

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2017, 07:05:21 pm »
Going to hijack this thread since it seems solved enough.

I need to replace my torrent drive soon because it's running out of it's life(good old WD Black, repurposed to the job, I think ten years old now?) and I've been looking at DT01ACA300 because they're the cheapest of the bunch here in the 3TB range(which is the most cost-efficient here). And yes, in the case of HDDs I really want to have the retail somewhat close for warranty.

Now I haven't really needed data protection since all of my stuffs been backed up to external or online but in the present time(space), HDDs are just the cheapest option(plus I can't be arsed to add an external media into my system.) Last time I RAIDed anything it was just 10 and forget(ah, relatively cheap storage, how I miss you.)

Do many of you run torrents straight from RAID, not as an end archive? 5 because of the read speed I presume? How has that worked out?
Has anyone tried to 1 and later switched to 5 after adding more drives? Is it even doable under Windows? More likely to corrupt the drives rather than add one?

Briefly considered some SSDs and just 0 it but that's still 600 euros for just 2 GB. While not ever dying from read activity sounds amazing, it's just not worth it cost wise(yet.)

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Online kitamesume

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2017, 08:07:23 pm »
seeding or downloading straight to raid is fine.

MX300 should be cheaper right now, their 2TB is $550 usd, and should be less than 500 euro in UK.
although still expensive, but more or less much better than previous prices.


on a side note, i trimmed my library a few weeks ago.
long-running series like naruto, bleach, etc. i removed due to their large size.
i couldn't care much considering nearly half of them is filler episodes.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:11:21 pm by kitamesume »

Offline Tatsujin

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2017, 08:57:02 pm »
I have all my drivers active, it does waste a bit more electricity, but that way the drivers never park and are always ready to be accessed. Have a lot of WD Reds (over 10) and few WD Blacks. I've read something similar to that article and I remember us discussing it here.


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Offline halfelite

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2017, 11:22:27 pm »
Going to hijack this thread since it seems solved enough.

I need to replace my torrent drive soon because it's running out of it's life(good old WD Black, repurposed to the job, I think ten years old now?) and I've been looking at DT01ACA300 because they're the cheapest of the bunch here in the 3TB range(which is the most cost-efficient here). And yes, in the case of HDDs I really want to have the retail somewhat close for warranty.

Now I haven't really needed data protection since all of my stuffs been backed up to external or online but in the present time(space), HDDs are just the cheapest option(plus I can't be arsed to add an external media into my system.) Last time I RAIDed anything it was just 10 and forget(ah, relatively cheap storage, how I miss you.)

Do many of you run torrents straight from RAID, not as an end archive? 5 because of the read speed I presume? How has that worked out?
Has anyone tried to 1 and later switched to 5 after adding more drives? Is it even doable under Windows? More likely to corrupt the drives rather than add one?

Briefly considered some SSDs and just 0 it but that's still 600 euros for just 2 GB. While not ever dying from read activity sounds amazing, it's just not worth it cost wise(yet.)

Yes you can move raid1 to raid5. Do I recommend it no. From a hardware raid point of view it can handle it easily same as when you expand any raid. The problem comes from when you go to grow the file system. Not all file systems are meant to be grown and you can run into a lot of problems trying it. As you said storage is cheap So if you are buying 2 drives save up until you can get the 3rd drive and start a raid5 from the start. 

Also you are talking about high speeds. What gear are you running that you would use SSD's in raid0. A single SSD can max out a gigabit connection.

Offline JoonasTo

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2017, 02:55:42 pm »
Yes you can move raid1 to raid5. Do I recommend it no. From a hardware raid point of view it can handle it easily same as when you expand any raid. The problem comes from when you go to grow the file system. Not all file systems are meant to be grown and you can run into a lot of problems trying it. As you said storage is cheap So if you are buying 2 drives save up until you can get the 3rd drive and start a raid5 from the start. 

Also you are talking about high speeds. What gear are you running that you would use SSD's in raid0. A single SSD can max out a gigabit connection.
Oh 0 mainly for creating a larger logical. SSDs for unlimited read life. Not sure if the performance would improve much at all to be honest. SSDs are already really fast and anything used to RAID them would probably become a bottleneck.

I don't need more than 3 TB yet, it's not really a question of whether or not I can afford it, more that it would be super convenient to just add a third disc later. Rebuilding the array could be a pain though.
Hmm, does adding one drive to it just add the empty space to the end? If so, even windows management could deal with it easily enough.

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Offline Pentium100

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Re: Just read something awful about WD Red drives...
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2017, 10:23:46 am »
Do many of you run torrents straight from RAID, not as an end archive? 5 because of the read speed I presume? How has that worked out?

I use zfs for my torrent drives, with SSD cache for reads. I use uTorrent but it is really inefficient (but so is libtorrent) in the way it accesses the hard drives, so a SSD cache is needed if your upload speed is faster than ~150mbps.

My torrent storage is composed of two WD RED 1TB 2.5" hard drives in RAID1 and two Kingston 240GB SSDs as cache (cache drives are used as RAID0 as their failure would not result in data loss). 1TB for me is enough for the active torrents. uTorrent runs inside a Windows virtual machine on that server.

Quote
Has anyone tried to 1 and later switched to 5 after adding more drives? Is it even doable under Windows? More likely to corrupt the drives rather than add one?
It depends on the RAID controller card and its capabilities. Some cards can do this and with some others you have to delete and recreate the array.
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