Author Topic: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.  (Read 622 times)

Offline Tiffanys

  • Member
  • Posts: 10259
  • real female girl ojō-sama
See here: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a52234/senate-obamacare-vote/

Here's a super lazy copy/paste...
Quote
30 Million People Lost Their Healthcare in the Dead of Night

And odds are, no one will remember how it happened.

 By Charles P. Pierce
Jan 12, 2017

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Wednesday night began cute, with folks talking about "Vote-a-Rama" with the Senate sitting in session well into Thursday morning, and rookie Republican Senator Todd Young sending snack food to the press gallery. It gradually became less cute as the night became the morning. The Democratic minority kept offering amendment after amendment, all of which failed by the narrow margin by which the Republicans control the Senate.

Then, around one o'clock in the morning, the actual mugging occurred, and millions of Americans awoke to the news that their newly acquired healthcare—and the newly acquired peace of mind that came with it—was going up in smoke.

The key moment came at about one in the morning when Bob Corker, Republican of Tennessee, withdrew his amendment that would have pushed the process of repealing the Affordable Care Act back to the beginning of March. Defenders of the law had set great store by the Corker amendment, which seemed to indicate that the Republican majority was both a) afraid to stand the gaff that will come when people lose their healthcare, and b) realizing that repealing the ACA without a viable replacement would cause actual chaos. That unicorn died in the dead of night.

Related Story
A Live Performance from an Aspiring Dictator

The Republican congressional majorities want this law dead because they have a theological belief that this is not the job of government. They want what they want when they want it, and they have the power to get it and the towering gall to get it done by any means necessary. The president-elect doesn't know enough about the subject to throw to a cat. So there we are.

From The New York Times:

    The final vote, which ended just before 1:30 a.m., followed a marathon session in which senators took back-to-back roll call votes on numerous amendments, an arduous exercise known as a vote-a-rama. The approval of the budget blueprint, coming even before President-elect Donald J. Trump is inaugurated, shows the speed with which Republican leaders are moving to fulfill their promise to repeal President Obama's signature domestic policy achievement — a goal they believe can now be accomplished after Mr. Trump's election. The action by the Senate is essentially procedural, setting the stage for a special kind of legislation called a reconciliation bill. Such a bill can be used to repeal significant parts of the health law and, critically, is immune from being filibustered. Congress appears to be at least weeks away from voting on legislation repealing the law.

But don't worry. Help is on the way. Pay your doctor with cheesy metaphors. And, as the Reverend Ike used to say, pie in the sky by and by when you die.

    "The Obamacare bridge is collapsing, and we're sending in a rescue team," said Senator Michael B. Enzi, Republican of Wyoming and the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. "Then we'll build new bridges to better health care, and finally, when these new bridges are finished, we'll close the old bridge." Republican leaders say they will work closely with Mr. Trump developing legislation to repeal and replace the health care law, but it is unclear exactly how his team will participate in that effort.

The amendments proposed by the Democrats and defeated by the Republicans were designed to put the majority on the wrong side of the most popular aspects of the law. It was really all they had left, but, in six months, when all those people who voted for the president-elect secure in the knowledge that he'd never do what he promised to do, discover that their pre-existing conditions suddenly matter again, the odds are that they will blame themselves or The Government or liberals or Barack Obama and nobody will remember how the mugging happened, and the rain will wash away the chalk outline of the victim from the sidewalk. And the death of the Affordable Care Act will become a cold case, an unsolved mystery mouldering in a pauper's grave.

ProPublica has an easily readable rundown of the details of the crime.

Offline lololitas

  • Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 2441
  • Warning! May appear random at times!
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 07:28:03 am »
You should come over to the other side of the pond before Merkel makes a refugee deal with Mexico!

Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1562
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 11:54:34 am »
It may be heartless, but I can't feel sorry. This is what you get for thinking ridiculing Trump the person was the way to defeat Trump the candidate.
Who needs a signature anyway ?

MAL               last.fm

Offline marinosgr

  • Member
  • Posts: 591
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 11:59:39 am »
I'll just leave this here

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 5871
  • (V)_|*,,,*|_(V)
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 02:13:53 pm »
The repeal of the ACA was never in doubt since the election.  Personally, I'm more concerned at this point about what the future will hold for Medicare and Social Security, since I have multiple family members who depend on these things.  For myself, I think the ACA repeal likely won't have much of even an indirect impact -- my company is large and we're self-insured, although we use United Healthcare as a plan administrator.  I could see administrative costs possibly rising, but if my company deems them to be too high, they'll either negotiate a better contract or move to a different administrator.  I can see a small minority of employees dropping their insurance, which also might cause a small increase in premiums or costs for us.


A couple of more recent articles:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/republicans-obamacare-subsidies-233618

http://www.businessinsider.com/obamacare-repeal-replace-effects-2017-1




Oh, the ironing is delicious.  Democrats should have invested heavily in advertising this fact over the last few years.  I think the reality is that the Democratic party is not great at getting their message out there.

Quote
Perhaps most potent for Democrats would be to use Republicans' repeal against them. Some of the highest rates of utilization for ACA plans come from heavily Republican areas, and waging a public-relations campaign to get the conservative base to push back on any changes to the bill, the Democrats may have a way to get at least some of what they want.

As for the Republicans who will lose their insurance because of the repeal, if they voted for these assholes, then fuck 'em.  They get what they deserve.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 08:43:25 am »
The repeal of the ACA was never in doubt since the election.  Personally, I'm more concerned at this point about what the future will hold for Medicare and Social Security, since I have multiple family members who depend on these things.  For myself, I think the ACA repeal likely won't have much of even an indirect impact -- my company is large and we're self-insured, although we use United Healthcare as a plan administrator.  I could see administrative costs possibly rising, but if my company deems them to be too high, they'll either negotiate a better contract or move to a different administrator.  I can see a small minority of employees dropping their insurance, which also might cause a small increase in premiums or costs for us.

After ACA kicked in we actually had a harder time finding the premium price we were obtaining before ACA out here in California for employee sponsored benefits. Before ACA we could get anthem/blueshield/etna PPO plans with very low deductibles for a 300$ a month premium on employee only full cost of both employee/employer contribution. After ACA started we could no longer find plans like that. We moved over to Kaiser based plan which kept it at the $300 mark. This past November I went shopping for employee sponsored plans again. The only thing that was even came close to the $300 a month premium had a very limited number of DR's  had zero tier 3 or 2 hospitals and had a $8000 deductible.  ACA skyrocketed California Medical costs where I live/work. After speaking with our Insurance broker he said most of his customers saw a 5-10% increase going from 2015 to 2016 then saw another 10-15% increase going from 2016 to 2017. Before ACA we had a steady increase 1-3% each year but could easily pit to different insures against each other to keep it at a 1%

Perhaps most potent for Democrats would be to use Republicans' repeal against them. Some of the highest rates of utilization for ACA plans come from heavily Republican areas, and waging a public-relations campaign to get the conservative base to push back on any changes to the bill, the Democrats may have a way to get at least some of what they want.

Utilization rates in coverage or actually using it? I have always wondered what the true stats are based on how many people actually wanted insurance or how many got it to not have to pay the fine. The company I work for has an employee base of around 140 employees. Before ACA we had about a 50-75% coverage rate with our insurance plan. the other 50-25% did not want coverage they usually went with a catastrophic cafeteria plan and that was it.  After ACA came into play we suddenly had 95% coverage rate without changing price or plans as suddenly people were forced to get coverage. 

I agree everyone should have access to affordable healthcare but ACA was not the solution to many problems with it. Dr/Hospitals refused to accept the plans in my area and still do not. All the good Hospitals in California have now denied all covered California Plans some still have 1 or to of the platinum plans that no one could afford anyways. Not putting a limit on pharmaceutical costs was another arrow in ACA. I dont want anyone to lose Medical but at the current rate it wont be affordable/sustainable on its current path. 

I also look at things like Social Security and Medicare but some of these items were never intended to be used for how they are used today. Social security was invented to start at age 65 when at the time it was thought up the average life was 61 years. And if you did live past 61 years life expectancy was I think 67 years of age so at max you had people living on SS for 2 years. Now average Life is 84.3  so people are living off of it for 20+ years. Now as for SS I dont know if the current growth exceeds the amount of people living on SS as I know the bulk of SS comes from payroll tax. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 09:03:32 am by halfelite »

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 5871
  • (V)_|*,,,*|_(V)
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 03:07:41 pm »
My insurance premiums went up by about $100 a year this year.  $876 in 2016, and $972 in 2017.  I'm on a Silver HDHP / HSA plan.  I've got a $1750 deductible this year, and a $4000 out-of-pocket maximum.  In-network coinsurance is 80% of covered expenses (60% out of network) after the deductible is met.  Preventative care and related medication tends to be cheaper and more heavily covered than other stuff.  For instance, my generic Crestor and Lexaprol prescriptions together were $8 for a 30 day supply, but I've paid $40 or more for common antibiotics.  My company also contributes cash to our HSAs twice a year -- I think last year it was like $600 total annually and this year it's more like $400.  I've saved about $5k in my HSA so far even while still using it for my expenses to date.  My goal is to have at least 2-3 times the out-of-pocket maximum in the account, so that if something bad happens one year, I'll still be safely covered for the following year.

So I've personally seen a similar rate of increase as some other customers this year.  (I think the 2016 deductible was $1600 with a $3500 out-of-pocket maximum.)  But, I make $85k a year now and I'm in good health.  Barring major events, I should be able to save more than $20k this year (which is going to go towards expenses next year when I buy a new home), and that's not counting my regular pre- and post-tax retirement & HSA account contributions, which account for something like 15% of my gross income.  In truth, in terms of absolute dollar values, the premium & coverage changes are hardly noticeable and barely affect my bottom line.  When the ACA went into effect, our plans already met the minimum federal requirements, so not a lot changed at my company.  I think they added some newer, cheaper options for hourly or low-salary employees.



I am curious as to why the impact post-ACA on insurance prices is so dramatically different from state to state.  I know at least part was due to some Republican-controlled states refusing to accept federal dollars related to the Medicaid expansion.  I've spent a little bit of time here and there pulling up articles without getting a complete picture.



Re: Social Security, here's a lengthy article from the agency itself on the solvency of the program:

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

In truth, it's not insolvent per se, but the rate of growth of costs will deplete the SS trust fund so that by 2035, payroll taxes / incoming cash flow will only be enough to cover about 75% of projected benefit payments.  The program is certainly NOT failing, but it needs some adjustment to stay on track.  Congress needs to get off their collective asses and make some decisions, but they lack the political will to take any responsibility for the program.  It's easier just to complain about it.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 05:54:12 pm »

I am curious as to why the impact post-ACA on insurance prices is so dramatically different from state to state.  I know at least part was due to some Republican-controlled states refusing to accept federal dollars related to the Medicaid expansion.  I've spent a little bit of time here and there pulling up articles without getting a complete picture.



Re: Social Security, here's a lengthy article from the agency itself on the solvency of the program:

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

In truth, it's not insolvent per se, but the rate of growth of costs will deplete the SS trust fund so that by 2035, payroll taxes / incoming cash flow will only be enough to cover about 75% of projected benefit payments.  The program is certainly NOT failing, but it needs some adjustment to stay on track.  Congress needs to get off their collective asses and make some decisions, but they lack the political will to take any responsibility for the program.  It's easier just to complain about it.

If you find anything post about it. As California is Blue all the way through and seems to have gotten the short end of the stick with ACA. I wonder if its based on a population of the state that has an impact. As also talking with our broker he said the way the only way for insurers to get such low pricing for ACA was to go to "small group" networks and maybe because California has such a large population and area our "small networks" as very small and limited where a smaller state with less population maybe the entire state population itself falls under a "small group".

 The sad thing about Politics and SS is if you touch it and for a good reason like maintaining its solvency but a few people lose a little bit of coverage the Media/population would burn you at the stake. I think this is one area where Term Limits could make some good. As with anyone that is employed you dont want to lose your job as touching something like SS would be career suicide.

Offline Saras

  • Member
  • Posts: 2918
  • How might I assist you?
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 06:39:27 pm »
Ultimately, if you want universal health care in America, you lot have to change your entire viewpoint on medicine, as a country.


As far as I've observed it, just leaving the ACA in place would functionally bankrupt your society in a few decades time. The medicine you practice is simply too expensive.

Whatever medical malpractice lawsuit passes, it comes out of the patients pockets. 92% of physicians practice defensive medicine, that means that 92% of doctors write out expensive procedures and treatment that have no functional benefit to the patient whatsoever.

Due to the above, your hospitals have to employ massive amounts of not doctors/nurses, but paper pushers. The sheer amount of overhead in your hospitals is fucking staggering. Countries, without that, with hospitals as non-for-profits have endless troubles balancing their check books.

It is quite frankly impossible to create a universal heatlhcare system under such conditions. The way you do shit is just simply too expensive.

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 5871
  • (V)_|*,,,*|_(V)
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 10:59:46 pm »
I agree, I think you're both right.

And, although I am extremely bitter about the outcome of the election, if the Republicans manage to somehow improve on the current situation, even if it's just an incremental change, I will acknowledge it.  Of course, as is my nature, I will be highly skeptical of their efforts until they prove otherwise.

I feel like I just want to hide in a bomb shelter for the next 2-4 years, and then emerge to see what kind of world these people have created.  Become a human ground hog, and come out every so often to see how badly Congress and the President and the courts manage to fuck things up.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Reape

  • Member
  • Posts: 677
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 11:13:45 pm »
Whatever medical malpractice lawsuit passes, it comes out of the patients pockets. 92% of physicians practice defensive medicine, that means that 92% of doctors write out expensive procedures and treatment that have no functional benefit to the patient whatsoever.

Well you forgot the rather more obvious reason. All those pointless procedures are quite profitable for business. It's one of the reasons why medical services should never be run on a strictly private basis like the US does.
Nordic cultural imperialist.

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 02:20:06 am »


Well you forgot the rather more obvious reason. All those pointless procedures are quite profitable for business. It's one of the reasons why medical services should never be run on a strictly private basis like the US does.

Actually a lot of them go with the malpractice suits. Before my second kid was born we were talking to the DR's as the discussion of natural vs c-section came up because my first kid was c-section. The DR said they would not even give the option of a natural birth after one c-section because there is a greater risk of something going wrong even if the chance was at 1%. So instead you now have to have 3 nurses and OR room and longer recovery time that all cost more money. To fix some of the problems with US health is very easy. First stop frivolous malpractice lawsuits which DR's would then not need to carry so much liability insurance. Second open up health insurance over state lines it should help equal out the cost of healthcare across the US. Third do not let pharmaceutical companies dictate the price. In order to get ACA pushed through they removed that bit. Every other country sets the price on medication why cant we do it. Those three items alone would go a long way to helping a lot of people.   

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 5871
  • (V)_|*,,,*|_(V)
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 02:38:28 am »
Second open up health insurance over state lines it should help equal out the cost of healthcare across the US.

This part is predicated on the idea that insurance companies actually want to compete across multiple states.  I wish I could remember where I read this, but IIRC, the article I saw asserted that companies weren't as keen to do this as people might think.  I believe it is because the different rules and regulations from state to state increase the complexity of administering the insurance plans.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Tiffanys

  • Member
  • Posts: 10259
  • real female girl ojō-sama
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 06:19:35 am »
My insurance premiums went up by about $100 a year this year.  $876 in 2016, and $972 in 2017.  I'm on a Silver HDHP / HSA plan.  I've got a $1750 deductible this year, and a $4000 out-of-pocket maximum.  In-network coinsurance is 80% of covered expenses (60% out of network) after the deductible is met.  Preventative care and related medication tends to be cheaper and more heavily covered than other stuff.  For instance, my generic Crestor and Lexaprol prescriptions together were $8 for a 30 day supply, but I've paid $40 or more for common antibiotics.  My company also contributes cash to our HSAs twice a year -- I think last year it was like $600 total annually and this year it's more like $400.  I've saved about $5k in my HSA so far even while still using it for my expenses to date.  My goal is to have at least 2-3 times the out-of-pocket maximum in the account, so that if something bad happens one year, I'll still be safely covered for the following year.

So I've personally seen a similar rate of increase as some other customers this year.  (I think the 2016 deductible was $1600 with a $3500 out-of-pocket maximum.)  But, I make $85k a year now and I'm in good health.  Barring major events, I should be able to save more than $20k this year (which is going to go towards expenses next year when I buy a new home), and that's not counting my regular pre- and post-tax retirement & HSA account contributions, which account for something like 15% of my gross income.  In truth, in terms of absolute dollar values, the premium & coverage changes are hardly noticeable and barely affect my bottom line.  When the ACA went into effect, our plans already met the minimum federal requirements, so not a lot changed at my company.  I think they added some newer, cheaper options for hourly or low-salary employees.



I am curious as to why the impact post-ACA on insurance prices is so dramatically different from state to state.  I know at least part was due to some Republican-controlled states refusing to accept federal dollars related to the Medicaid expansion.  I've spent a little bit of time here and there pulling up articles without getting a complete picture.



Re: Social Security, here's a lengthy article from the agency itself on the solvency of the program:

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

In truth, it's not insolvent per se, but the rate of growth of costs will deplete the SS trust fund so that by 2035, payroll taxes / incoming cash flow will only be enough to cover about 75% of projected benefit payments.  The program is certainly NOT failing, but it needs some adjustment to stay on track.  Congress needs to get off their collective asses and make some decisions, but they lack the political will to take any responsibility for the program.  It's easier just to complain about it.
Dunno how you could spend time investigating it and not find the answer... https://www.google.com/search?q=marco+rubio+broke+obamacare&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Basically there was a risk corridor for insurance companies and the government agreed to reinburse them for losses for the first 10 years or so and even set aside funds to do just that... and then Marcro Rubio and his GOP buddies come along and gut it and tell the insurance companies to get fucked. As a result, premiums started going up significantly and many providers had to drop out entirely. GOP can now claim that the ACA failed. The truth? They gutted it then pointed the finger when things went south.

Slimy fucks...

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 09:34:39 pm »
Dunno how you could spend time investigating it and not find the answer... https://www.google.com/search?q=marco+rubio+broke+obamacare&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Basically there was a risk corridor for insurance companies and the government agreed to reinburse them for losses for the first 10 years or so and even set aside funds to do just that... and then Marcro Rubio and his GOP buddies come along and gut it and tell the insurance companies to get fucked. As a result, premiums started going up significantly and many providers had to drop out entirely. GOP can now claim that the ACA failed. The truth? They gutted it then pointed the finger when things went south.

Slimy fucks...

Do you only read the parts you want to read? In 2014 the GOV got $362 Million in so called user fees. But insurance companies took a loss of $2.87 Billion The Government said ok we will pay 12% of that 2.87billion back right now.  And it was not for 10 years it was 3 years.  No company in there right mind would let outstanding debt sit on the books for 10 years even more so when you are a publicly traded company. After 2014 your had a lot of insurance companies drop out of the market which then drove the price up on the remaining companies that stayed. ACA was doomed from the start no matter how you look at it. Rubio and the GOP had nothing to do with its failure it was setup to fail when it was created.

Online Bozobub

  • Member
  • Posts: 1747
  • Demon Lord of Clowns
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 05:33:45 pm »
...Rubio and the GOP had nothing to do with its failure it was setup to fail when it was created.
So the fact that Ryan and Rubio regularly brag about doing exactly that means nothing at all, eh?

Try again.

Offline halfelite

  • Member
  • Posts: 1615
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 10:00:05 pm »
...Rubio and the GOP had nothing to do with its failure it was setup to fail when it was created.
So the fact that Ryan and Rubio regularly brag about doing exactly that means nothing at all, eh?

Try again.

Yes they are taking credit for it not working people that dont actually read up on it believe they had something do with it. Even if you read Jonathan Gruber statements about ACA he said it was working perfectly and that the +22% increase of the 25% of the population on ACA was expected and intended. Well if you look at that and say ok you expected it then you also expected that 25% to stay on ACA but with the 22% increase they can now go get private insurance for basically the same cost and pick the DR they want to see. So once they start departing the cost burden falls onto the GOV for subsidies as well as trying to payback lost revenue to the insurance companies. Which in turn will fall back onto the lower 75% that did not get an increase this year so they will get one next year. In turn what you have built is a system that is like medicaid but paid for by the people standing at the top as the top departs the system shrinks. 

Sadly you cant make a system that penalizes the people that are more fortunate to help the people less fortunate when the more fortunate people have other options.  You have the same problem with our current progressive tax systems try to do the same thing and what you have is people trying to game the system as they feel they should not have to shoulder the burden even more so when it seems more and more of population feels they should not have to work or contribute to anything and just be handed everything.

Humans are a selfish bunch on both sides the more fortunate dont want to give up more for the less fortunate and a lot of the less fortunate do not want to become more productive.

I dont even know what the correct answer is. I see it from both sides. The working part of me says everyone should be taxed the same percentage no matter what you make be it everyone gets hit at 25% or some number. Be it everyone has to pay the same price for medical for the same service.  But on the other side I remember struggling living paycheck to paycheck scraping enough money to pay rent and food and saying at the time I could not have afforded to have 25% taken out of my check.

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 5871
  • (V)_|*,,,*|_(V)
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2017, 01:32:15 pm »
I think this innate human selfishness is why capitalism is a flawed, limiting system that needs to be modified over time (I'm talking centuries) and ultimately discarded in order to drive human social evolution further.  When the entire basis of your society is the idea that the accumulation of wealth is not only natural and desirable, but an innate right, then everything else that contradicts or inhibits that becomes anathema to the more selfish.  Not only that, but capitalism encourages selfishness and greed as much as it encourages personal achievement.  Taxation becomes theft, and progressive taxation becomes the worst kind of theft if you're rich.  All policies that arise from the redistribution of wealth and resources will be subject to battles between the haves and the have-nots.  As long as individuals struggle for resources and economic success, and as long as we have a top-heavy system where most of the wealth and opportunity is concentrated among a tiny minority, the inequities between people will persist and the battles will continue.

The failure of the ACA, real or otherwise, is just one more reflection of the bigger societal problem.

Not that I think there's a better way to do things right now; that's for people a lot smarter and better educated than me to figure out.
If I ever meet God in person, I'm going to ask Him why he created so many stupid people, and then punch Him in the nose before he answers.

Offline Burkingam

  • Member
  • Posts: 11031
  • Love, Science & Music
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 05:40:27 am »
According to source, the bill that will replace Obamacare will be called Trumpdoesn'tcare. :awesomeface:
Altmed is altfact!

Offline Tanis

  • Member
  • Posts: 3247
Re: Well, they did it. Obamacare/ACA was repealed in the dead of night.
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 08:57:27 am »
And here I thought it was going to be called the 'TrumpThePoor'.