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Discussion Forums => The Lounge => Topic started by: darkangel624 on November 15, 2008, 12:49:43 PM

Title: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: darkangel624 on November 15, 2008, 12:49:43 PM
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/share-internet-right

If this truly gets implemented on a grand scale, then P2P will see it's death.
Gotta love the European Union., sometimes.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: kureshii on November 15, 2008, 01:39:56 PM
http://techdirt.com/articles/20081114/1457012833.shtml

I got a brain freeze reading that article.

cba-to-click-URL spoiler:
(click to show/hide)

To quote the article:

Quote
SPPF contends that French law says that any application that allows unauthorized file sharing is illegal. [...] The recent ruling found that, indeed, it's acceptable to extend French laws beyond its borders.

I don't know what to think anymore...
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: fuddle36767 on November 15, 2008, 05:28:15 PM
To quote the article:

Quote
SPPF contends that French law says that any application that allows unauthorized file sharing is illegal. [...] The recent ruling found that, indeed, it's acceptable to extend French laws beyond its borders.


Under this interpretation, web browsers, via services like Megaupload, could be deemed illegal... I don't know anything about French law but it seems like this interpretation is too broad.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: Nikran on November 15, 2008, 06:35:45 PM
From other comments i read if this is taken to the extreme you can sue just about anyone. lets say for example the hardware manufacturers for providing the physical means to run the p2p application and microsoft since it was there os that it ran under.

Lets hope this whole thing dies a painful death that it deserves ;D

Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: sdedalus83 on November 15, 2008, 11:35:14 PM
Isn't Vuze just a bittorrent client?  I can understand holding the trackers and hosters of illegal material, but attacking the developers of a file sharing client is completely retarded, and demonstrates a absolutely no comprehension of how the technology functions.

These ridiculous attempts to control the internet are going to come back and bite both the US and the EU in the ass.  It won't be long before the 'net has become as necessary for modern human society as electricity is.  Groups that try to limit it, and control it, will just get steamrolled by everybody else.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: darkangel624 on November 15, 2008, 11:54:57 PM
Vuze is basically Azureus.

The way I understand it is, that it attacks heavy users of file sharing clients using P2P.  So this would mean that generous uploaders, or just about anyone that is a BitTorrent, Limewire/Frostwire, etc. whore, would get hit with correspondence to say that you're abusing bandwidth while doing up a big "no-no" because they think that also you are stealing someone's hard creative work of music and/or film. Then they would impose the "three strikes...you're out" rule.  After you have used them up, your internet connection will be severed.

It's like politics being above the law, and then making it the law further on down the road.  Ridiculous...yes, but I am not going to lie that it isn't scary. Especially if from the article that I posted that France is highly thinking about it, and New Zealand has already had it approved with the possibility of more countries in the EU following suit.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: limitedslip on November 16, 2008, 01:07:52 AM
The way I understand it is, that it attacks heavy users of file sharing clients using P2P.  So this would mean that generous uploaders, or just about anyone that is a BitTorrent, Limewire/Frostwire, etc. whore, would get hit with correspondence to say that you're abusing bandwidth while doing up a big "no-no" because they think that also you are stealing someone's hard creative work of music and/or film. Then they would impose the "three strikes...you're out" rule.  After you have used them up, your internet connection will be severed.

Comcast cable uses 2 strikes, I already have one...
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: bcr123 on November 16, 2008, 02:04:58 AM
http://techdirt.com/articles/20081114/1457012833.shtml

I got a brain freeze reading that article.

cba-to-click-URL spoiler:
(click to show/hide)

To quote the article:

Quote
SPPF contends that French law says that any application that allows unauthorized file sharing is illegal. [...] The recent ruling found that, indeed, it's acceptable to extend French laws beyond its borders.

I don't know what to think anymore...

So basically every operating system that is capable of copying files from one disk to another is illegal.

Also FTP, email, usenet, apache, Internet Explorer, Firefox, all illegal because they can be used to share files in an unauthorized manner.




Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: darkangel624 on November 16, 2008, 05:40:45 AM
When you think about it all, and how politics tries to restrict us in these matters...what was the point of broadband/high speed internet access, and most of all the point of trying to increase and look for new ways to be even faster, and then promote it's use to the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: Nikran on November 16, 2008, 05:56:52 AM
You could say the same about external hard drives since i noticed adverts for them point out how many hours of movies you could fit on them. Which is actually quite funny cuz it's almost saying 'We know u got plenty of copyrighted films/movies on your comps, so we'll make some profit from the fact u need more storage space for them.'

This could all work out very bad indeed if they ignore whatever exsisting laws are about to achive their goal of killing off p2p. How far are they willing to go on this and how many people are they willing to piss off too?
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: dexluther on November 16, 2008, 06:09:45 AM
I don't understand why they keep wasting money and time trying to bring down p2p. Every time they take one down, 3 others take it's place.

Resistance is futile.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: fohfoh on November 16, 2008, 09:36:54 PM
The shits gonna hit the fan when they attack p2p programs and browsers begin falling (opera etc)
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: Nikran on November 16, 2008, 10:00:05 PM
I hope p2p brings about the death of these dinosaurs. Nobody likes em anyway ::)
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: fohfoh on November 16, 2008, 10:05:00 PM
I hope p2p brings about the death of these dinosaurs. Nobody likes em anyway ::)

That's true. Wasn't it WOW that used BT to distribute patches or something at one point?
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: bcr123 on November 17, 2008, 12:04:19 AM
You could say the same about external hard drives since i noticed adverts for them point out how many hours of movies you could fit on them. Which is actually quite funny cuz it's almost saying 'We know u got plenty of copyrighted films/movies on your comps, so we'll make some profit from the fact u need more storage space for them.'


How many 80GB ipods are really filled with legal music?
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: geoffreak on November 17, 2008, 12:08:37 AM
Assuming that a 80GB iPod has ~80,000 MB, and each song is ~3MB, and each song costs ~$0.99 we are looking at over $26,000 to fill it.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: iindigo on November 17, 2008, 01:06:41 AM
I hope p2p brings about the death of these dinosaurs. Nobody likes em anyway ::)

That's true. Wasn't it WOW that used BT to distribute patches or something at one point?

Blizzard has used BitTorrent for WoW patch distribution since day 1 and is still using it.

Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: fohfoh on November 17, 2008, 03:04:31 AM
I hope p2p brings about the death of these dinosaurs. Nobody likes em anyway ::)

That's true. Wasn't it WOW that used BT to distribute patches or something at one point?

Blizzard has used BitTorrent for WoW patch distribution since day 1 and is still using it.



Then blizz needs to get on vivaldi's case to bitch back.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: Zalis116 on November 17, 2008, 08:15:07 AM
When you think about it all, and how politics tries to restrict us in these matters...what was the point of broadband/high speed internet access, and most of all the point of trying to increase and look for new ways to be even faster, and then promote it's use to the rest of the world.
No kidding, why didn't they just leave us all on dialup or ADSL just fast enough to send e-mail and conduct other business operations? It's like how they bitch about 10% of users using 50% of the bandwidth for a given ISP. Limit or eliminate those 10%, and they'll have 100% of the users using 60% of the bw. Way to spend money for now useless infrastructure, guys :roll:
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: darkangel624 on November 17, 2008, 08:47:20 AM
This is the way I could possibly see things happening if this does indeed happen.

1. To take the Blizzard example -- Large scale businesses with the apparent need for high bandwidth to deliver updates/patches.  This will be legitmate, since they will be monitoring trackers that they have and what is being transferred. You will probably be only able to share once or twice over, unless you are selected to be a super seeder or whatnot, but with a business like that, not likely.

2. "You might be able to still carry on with what you're doing if....." You limit how much you upload.  This destroys the spirit of intent of dedicated seeders/power uploaders/private trackers, because you'd probably have to only have a seeding ratio of 1-2...maybe 3, if they are being lazy...
But in the end, the big machine will inevitably e-spank you...they just can't resist!
This is the least likely option.


3. The powers that be, and the ISP's figure out how to get you where it hurts.
More or less this is going back to how it was when I was stationed in England, and broadband was first making it's debut.
You get rates with caps for light usage, moderate usage, or heavy usage with different tiers of usage within heavy usage, which generally hits you up per how much MB bandwidth you are using.
Now scaling up today, I'm sure this would be on a GB scale since the inclusion of VDSL and cable getting faster and other options of high speed.  More or less, it will just be like the "ye ole days" of hitting you per usage.
ISP's get more money out of you, they profit, and the politics plus individuals who set this in motion get a piece of the pie...everyone is happy except you, but of course, you'll deal with it, because you know how it works...fear is a great motivator to get the people to do what they do not want to do, or deal with.
"Either you do this, or you lose it completely"

Now...with that, I'm not saying that all this will come true.  Who knows, the above posts here could be correct and society on the whole will just straight up take notice, take a stand, and this will just be history.
Title: Re: Possible threat to P2P in the works
Post by: vuzedome on November 27, 2008, 03:00:27 AM
The French are making themselves look more like idiots(Only refering to the mentioned parties from the posted link to articles).
At least America didn't try something as outrageous as that, DMCA was a whole lot smarter and fairer option.