I'm not pro P/H or pro I.
But Hammas had launched 70 missiles at them before Israel launched their "counter attack".
Death toll doesn't matter. You set a bomb off or shoot a gun into a crowd, you are hoping to kill someone. The intent is there.
Neither side is in the right. I hope both sides die in a fiery death if they can't come to a peace agreement soon.
I love how religion has nothing to do with this war.
/sarcasm
I think that Israel should evict the Palestinian squatters that are on Israeli land and shluff them off on to the nations that actually created the "Palestinian problem," namely Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt.
The only reason for the continued existence of the Palestinian national identity is to justify the desire to eliminate Israel.++
The only reason for the continued existence of the Palestinian national identity is to justify the desire to eliminate Israel.++
There was a time when Palestinians had a legitimate right to complain about their predicament, but that time is long passed. All refugees from Israel are dead or vastly outnumbered by native Israelis.
The 'war' is lost, and continued struggle is only bringing misery to their people. They cannot overcome the Israeli military on their own. They cannot get arms from any country whose military can overcome the Israeli military on their own. (Syria obviously cannot. I highly doubt Iran could either.) They cannot get direct military assistance from any nation. Their cause is lost.
I admit, I spend the idle hour contemplating the fun that would ensue if the US loaned Israel say... an aircraft carrier...
once we kill God in all its man made forms we should have a much better crack at that world peace thing. at least we'll be left will a more reasonable bunch...even if its only a couple hundred ppl.
I admit, I spend the idle hour contemplating the fun that would ensue if the US loaned Israel say... an aircraft carrier...
No, we'll be left with a bunch of atheist zealots like yourself and semnae. Idiots that understand neither reason nor religion and think that they understand both.How is stereotyping atheists going to elevate you above those who stereotype religious people? ;)
No, we'll be left with a bunch of atheist zealots like yourself and semnae. Idiots that understand neither reason nor religion and think that they understand both.
Second reason (http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2008/03/girls-of-israeli-army.html)
I have a question for Ace and Proin and any other military men on this forum. As a soldier isnt girls like this the people you are fighting to protect. Just look at this pic
But seriously we want to protect the cute innocent girls, but when they have PMS, then we can cut loose those bloodhounds on the enemy...+1
Problem is israel is way to effective when it retaliates.its not effective when you give your enemy the best recruiting campain ever.
And because of how hamas and like minded organizations function, they tend to have their operations near civilians.
End result, civilians being injured and killed while military/terrorist targets are being attacked
If you don't like the water, don't live near the ocean.
No matter what they do they cant do anything right, the entire middle east hates israel.Problem is israel is way to effective when it retaliates.its not effective when you give your enemy the best recruiting campain ever.
And because of how hamas and like minded organizations function, they tend to have their operations near civilians.
End result, civilians being injured and killed while military/terrorist targets are being attacked
in lebanon they did the retalion after hezbollah had retreated from the site so all israel did was bomb a house that the hezbollah fighters borrowed, then paid to have rebuildt, making them seem friendly to the local community = gaining followers...
As a soldier isnt girls like this the people you are fighting to protect.No. Honestly, you're just trying to protect your bro's.
[...]
when they are wearing uniforms doesnt that kinda confuse things?
They tried, but the only people who hate Palestinians as much as the Israelis do are the Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Egyptians. The only reason for the continued existence of the Palestinian national identity is to justify the desire to eliminate Israel. If Israel hadn't been recreated in the 50's, the other Muslim nations would have torn what was once Palestine to pieces, and would most likely still be fighting over its carcass.
No, we'll be left with a bunch of atheist zealots like yourself and semnae. Idiots that understand neither reason nor religion and think that they understand both.
Yeah, too bad as you said yourself earlier Israel state has nothing to do with the USA, if any western nation is to be blamed for it's re establishment, it should be Great Britain.
England and France, but regardless, it's America who has been their number one supporter since it was established, mainly in a military and vetoing capabilities at the UN fashion.
Heh, back to Proin's aircraft carrier thoughts.... A flaw in a strategy! I just have to point it out.
What is a carrier? It is one of the main tools of invasion, especially when invading a country far away. Why would Israel need one when they have airfields on the ground? Airfield on the ground means you can use real awesome air planes instead of those weak aircraft spec ones. Basically Navy role in Israel is only that of keeping supply lines across Mediterranean sea safe. What USA could loan them is B52.... and.... eh, US land units are no better then Israeli anyway... come to think of it Israel has everything they need. They have kick ass Merkava for ground assault, Arrow 2 for ballistic missile defence, Atmos and Rascal howitzers, Spyder SAMs, a secret nuclear weapon facility, Desert Eagle....
Yes, equip everyone with desert eagle!
If they continue like that, they will soon produce all the weaponry themselves.
How about just acknowledging them as a nuclear nation and back them up politically there? I mean is there any way you can support them more politically? (except making them permanent NATO ally)
EDIT: Oh it seems they are serious this time they already mobilized the tanks to roll over the border. Woohoo! /me eats popcorn
They still think Dimona facility is a secret ::)like mike tyson beating a retarded baby to death lol
EDIT: Oh it seems they are serious this time they already mobilized the tanks to roll over the border. Woohoo! /me eats popcorn
This will be even more entertaining then Georgian war. Get ready for the one sided fist fight!
Double EDIT:
Oh my, King of Jordan is donating blood.... doesn't he know blue blood is not compatible?
QuoteNo, we'll be left with a bunch of atheist zealots like yourself and semnae. Idiots that understand neither reason nor religion and think that they understand both.
Maybe, at least we wouldn't kill each other. That's a pretty big step if you ask me.
All we sold to the arabs that weren't friendly (at the time) are F-5's and other pieces of shit. And we didn't give to Israel until after the six day war.England and France, but regardless, it's America who has been their number one supporter since it was established, mainly in a military and vetoing capabilities at the UN fashion.Military, yes. (both UK and France have veto capability as well)
Thing is, USA has tried to sell to both sides and up until recently sold weapons to Israel and it's neighbours to keep the soviets outside that lucrative market.
Because aircraft carriers make the biggest political statement. It's a statement saying that we (as the US) will back them 110%. It's not necessarily "more powerful" than other options, but it sends the strongest message.Personally, I think if we gave Israel a small fleet of B-52's it would send a stronger message.
Course, the fact that they're shitty didn't stop Norway from buying them. ::)
Really? Huh. Can't argue with that.Course, the fact that they're shitty didn't stop Norway from buying them. ::)What exactly? F-5? We got them for free. Never say no to free stuff.
Fighter jets are among the only thing left American we use and politicians who were most likely bribed bought more american crap instead of German Eurofighter.Aww, poor you. Not my fault we build better fighter jets than the Germans.
Artillery still uses old M109 though, cheap ammunition.That true. The majority of IED's in Iraq has historically been old 155 rounds. When we invaded, it was deemed cheaper to leave old ammo dumps behind - wasn't considered a threat because they don't actually have any artillery. No use for artillery rounds then, eh? Turns out they make a decent roadside bomb, although they're not effective against up-armored hummers or mraps.
I'm not pro-Israel by any means. But Hamas is looking like barbaric suicide bombing terrorists aka fucking assholes every day.
Without aid money from USA israelis cannot keep their massive army anymore. Good bye apaches and merkavas if that happens...Yeah, who could imagine average americans not wanting their tax money to go to Israel so they can build military arsenal? ::)
I'm not pro-Israel by any means. But Hamas is looking like barbaric suicide bombing terrorists aka fucking assholes every day.
Hamas has never looked like anything else.
Israel started this war and this slaughter,Actually, the recent event was started by Hamas when they broke the ceasefire.
they killed way more civilians them HamasWe're keeping score?
and Hamas doesn't have financial support make an army to fight Israel equal.They sure get enough moral support from Muslim countries including, but not limited to Iran, Syria etc...
Why people use terrorist tatics? Because they can't make an army, so its something like guerrillas which can't make an army and go this way to fight an army.Question is, why do they HAVE to use terrorist tactics. Ghandi was pretty successful in not using terrorist tactics. Question though, has any small group yet to achieve their goal using suicide bombers since 1900?
When they explode a bomb on a market the media won't tell who was they're target since the government won't tell or inform in most of the cases (a spy? members of the new army of Iraq?usa soldier?), so it will just sound as a bomb explodes in a market and XX civilians died but sure there will be someone there that was important and the government knows but don't tell so they can get support of the civilians and more votes.
Israel started this war and this slaughter, they killed way more civilians them Hamas and Hamas doesn't have financial support make an army to fight Israel equal.So what the fuck is your solution then? Give them an army so they can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War) get (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal_Crisis) their (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) asses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) kicked again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_South_Lebanon_conflict)?
Why people use terrorist tatics? Because they can't make an army, so its something like guerrillas which can't make an army and go this way to fight an army.
The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades (كتائب الشهيد عز الدين القسام; named after Izz ad-Din al-Qassam) is the military wing of Palestinian militant group Hamas. Created in 1992 under the direction of Yahya Ayyash, the primary objective of the group was to build a coherent military organization to support the goals of Hamas, which was at the time concerned with blocking the Oslo Accords negotiations. From 1994 to 2000, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades carried out a number of attacks against both Israeli soldiers and civilians that endangered the peace process, ultimately giving way to the "Al-Aqsa Intifada", which Hamas enthusiastically supported.The issue is that their military takes cover in mosques, hospitals, and schools, and fights defensively against Israel's military and offensively against Israel's citizens. They know what gets them killed, and they know if they get killed in a school, a mosque, or a hospital is looks good for their cause and bad for Israel's. Frankly, I don't give a fuck how many "innocent civilians" Hamas says were killed by Israel, because most, if not all of them, are Hamas agents.
[...]
Israel evaluates at 40,000 the number of fighters now in the brigades, and claim they receive extensive training as well as more sophisticated weapons, including long-range rockets as well as guided anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.[7]
Israel started this war and this slaughter, they killed way more civilians them Hamas and Hamas doesn't have financial support make an army to fight Israel equal.
Why people use terrorist tatics? Because they can't make an army, so its something like guerrillas which can't make an army and go this way to fight an army.
Terrorism/Guerrillas is a way of fight to achieve they're goals since they can't fight an oppressor like Israel on others ways and Israel should be called as terrorists since they don't care about innocent lives and the proportional numbers of deaths on Israel side doesn't justify Israel acts.
It is like at Iraq, some people (dumb people) call the resistance as terrorist and others call just resistance force and they use guerrillas combat strategy and also target people who are with these barbarians (in iraq case, usa). So thats why they target civilians that went to Iraq with support of USA or one company that wouldn't be there if USA didn't attack them.
When they explode a bomb on a market the media won't tell who was they're target since the government won't tell or inform in most of the cases (a spy? members of the new army of Iraq?usa soldier?), so it will just sound as a bomb explodes in a market and XX civilians died but sure there will be someone there that was important and the government knows but don't tell so they can get support of the civilians and more votes.
So what the fuck is your solution then? Give them an army so they can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War) get (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal_Crisis) their (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) asses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_South_Lebanon_conflict)?
Israel started this war and this slaughterNo they didn't. Give me one hard evidence that proves that jews invaded that land and started with a genocide.
You don't make any distinction between the two groups because your own agenda is to cast the US as a great barbarian horde, sweeping across the world in a quest for utter world domination.Well, the bold part is true, you can't deny that.
No, because it's cheap, forces the enemy to attack people who aren't in uniform, and gets hippies all teary eyed to see the little guy rise up.
QuoteYou don't make any distinction between the two groups because your own agenda is to cast the US as a great barbarian horde, sweeping across the world in a quest for utter world domination.Well, the bold part is true, you can't deny that.
Yeah and I fucked it up. :-[So what the fuck is your solution then? Give them an army so they can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War) get (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal_Crisis) their (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) asses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_South_Lebanon_conflict)?Dear god I love that quote... (the links)
Most of the American quest to rule the world has been carried out within the economic realm, and as seen by the near collapse of the entire Asian and European financial markets in response to the credit crunch here, it was pretty damn successful.
Barbarians just invade, rape and pillage, and then leave. A much simpler and more effective alternative to Dubya's idiotic occupation of a damned hornet's nest.
Yeah and I fucked it up.No worries you still kicked Pharismo's ass both in grammar and intellectually.
can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War) get (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Canal_Crisis) their (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War) asses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War) kicked again (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_South_Lebanon_conflict)?
Israel started this war and this slaughter, they killed way more civilians them Hamas and Hamas doesn't have financial support make an army to fight Israel equal.
Why people use terrorist tatics? Because they can't make an army, so its something like guerrillas which can't make an army and go this way to fight an army.
Colombia revolution army aren't terrorist are they? The government called them terrorist because of what?
Terrorism/Guerrillas is a way of fight to achieve they're goals since they can't fight an oppressor like Israel on others ways and Israel should be called as terrorists since they don't care about innocent lives and the proportional numbers of deaths on Israel side doesn't justify Israel acts.
Wow, it seems either the average intelligence on Box has gone up or my constant rants finally penetrated.
While I do agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves, I also believe that Israel did start this in the first place by continuing to build settlements and bombing Hamas tunnels to cut off aid to Gaza. When you cut off aid to one of the densest strips of land in the world, there is going to be suffering and people don't like to suffer. When Hamas was democratically elected by Palestinians, nearly every single Western nation turned their back on Gaza. Forsaken people who are occupied with little food, water, and medicine only have one option to regain their dignity and that is to fight back either diplomatically or by violence. I don't condone Hamas' suicide bombings or rocket attacks, and I don't condone Israel's private schemes to increases its influence in Palestinian territories, but neither Israel nor Hamas are in the right here.
Just moral standing and personal agenda
While I do agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves, I also believe that Israel did start this in the first place by continuing to build settlements and bombing Hamas tunnels to cut off aid to Gaza. When you cut off aid to one of the densest strips of land in the world, there is going to be suffering and people don't like to suffer. When Hamas was democratically elected by Palestinians, nearly every single Western nation turned their back on Gaza. Forsaken people who are occupied with little food, water, and medicine only have one option to regain their dignity and that is to fight back either diplomatically or by violence. I don't condone Hamas' suicide bombings or rocket attacks, and I don't condone Israel's private schemes to increases its influence in Palestinian territories, but neither Israel nor Hamas are in the right here.
You do know that the sole reason Hamas had those tunnels built was to smuggle arms and suicide bombers back and forth across the border, right?
Israel would have been remiss in its duties as a sovereign nation to protect its people had Israel not destroyed those tunnels.
And Israel has no responsibility to take care of people that wish it nothing but ill. Cutting off aid to a terrorist state is similar to placing an embargo on one. Heck, if anyone (such as, say, other Arabs) cared about the Palestinians at all then they could take up the financial burden of supplying them with aid. Heck, Egypt controls the other side of the border, but no one complains when they, another Arab nation, closes the border with their "brethren."
While I do agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves, I also believe that Israel did start this in the first place by continuing to build settlements and bombing Hamas tunnels to cut off aid to Gaza. When you cut off aid to one of the densest strips of land in the world, there is going to be suffering and people don't like to suffer. When Hamas was democratically elected by Palestinians, nearly every single Western nation turned their back on Gaza. Forsaken people who are occupied with little food, water, and medicine only have one option to regain their dignity and that is to fight back either diplomatically or by violence. I don't condone Hamas' suicide bombings or rocket attacks, and I don't condone Israel's private schemes to increases its influence in Palestinian territories, but neither Israel nor Hamas are in the right here.
You do know that the sole reason Hamas had those tunnels built was to smuggle arms and suicide bombers back and forth across the border, right?
Israel would have been remiss in its duties as a sovereign nation to protect its people had Israel not destroyed those tunnels.
And Israel has no responsibility to take care of people that wish it nothing but ill. Cutting off aid to a terrorist state is similar to placing an embargo on one. Heck, if anyone (such as, say, other Arabs) cared about the Palestinians at all then they could take up the financial burden of supplying them with aid. Heck, Egypt controls the other side of the border, but no one complains when they, another Arab nation, closes the border with their "brethren."
Also, Israel, as with any government, has a responsibility to prevent civilian deaths as by the Geneva Convention.
You don't have to take a condescending attitude with me as I'm minoring in Middle Eastern and Far Eastern studies.Reminded me of something....
Tour Guide: I don't know where you get your facts sir but I am a volunteer housewife with 45 minutes of orientation and a harlequin romance about archaeologists!
Fry: Don't wave your fancy degrees at me.
Hamas doesn't fight because they love fighting they just defense they homeland
Hamas doesn't fight because they love fighting they just defense they homeland
Hamas doesn't fight because they love fighting they just defense they homeland
Sending rockets far into Israel is not defence.
While I do agree that Israel has the right to defend themselves, I also believe that Israel did start this in the first place by continuing to build settlements and bombing Hamas tunnels to cut off aid to Gaza. When you cut off aid to one of the densest strips of land in the world, there is going to be suffering and people don't like to suffer. When Hamas was democratically elected by Palestinians, nearly every single Western nation turned their back on Gaza. Forsaken people who are occupied with little food, water, and medicine only have one option to regain their dignity and that is to fight back either diplomatically or by violence. I don't condone Hamas' suicide bombings or rocket attacks, and I don't condone Israel's private schemes to increases its influence in Palestinian territories, but neither Israel nor Hamas are in the right here.
You do know that the sole reason Hamas had those tunnels built was to smuggle arms and suicide bombers back and forth across the border, right?
Israel would have been remiss in its duties as a sovereign nation to protect its people had Israel not destroyed those tunnels.
And Israel has no responsibility to take care of people that wish it nothing but ill. Cutting off aid to a terrorist state is similar to placing an embargo on one. Heck, if anyone (such as, say, other Arabs) cared about the Palestinians at all then they could take up the financial burden of supplying them with aid. Heck, Egypt controls the other side of the border, but no one complains when they, another Arab nation, closes the border with their "brethren."
The tunnels are not just used for weapons smuggling, they are used to bring in medicine, food, and water that would otherwise be confiscated by Israel. You don't have to take a condescending attitude with me as I'm minoring in Middle Eastern and Far Eastern studies. Obviously weapons smuggling is wrong, but the tunnels do bring relief to the Palestinian people and they were there before Hamas even existed. The Boston Globe has an article on the uses of these tunnels.
Also, Israel, as with any government, has a responsibility to prevent civilian deaths as by the Geneva Convention. I'm not sure where you get the idea that Arab nations aren't giving the Palestinians aid; they make up 1/5 to 1/3 of all aid that goes to the Palestinians depending on the year, while Europe provides most of the rest. While Hamas does indeed kill innocent Israeli civilians, so does Israel and at a far greater number. I'm not pro-Israeli nor am I supporting Hamas, but I can see both sides of the coin and how these two entities feel. There is no right side to this battle as both sides are guilty of a vast number of human rights offences and both sides are fighting for their right to exist. I simply don't believe it is appropriate to pick a side and label it as the right side in all of this.
I don't remember the last time I've seen these kind of protests like what's been going on. Rock & Egg-throwing at the Israeli embassy in Norway? That's not normal.
I don't remember the last time I've seen these kind of protests like what's been going on. Rock & Egg-throwing at the Israeli embassy in Norway? That's not normal.
It's normal for communists (antifa) and muslims.
kyanwan, israel has always had to have a very swift and hard action police on things that might threaten them.
They are a tiny nation surrounded by countries that would love nothing more but to see them perish.
If they didnt have these policies and way of dealing with their surrounding neighbors they probably would have been wiped off the map already or would be seeing alot more "terrorist" attacks in israel killing hundreds more.
Their actions arent nice, but they are effective in most cases.
your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war.It sure is, we just haven't encountered a big war yet.
your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war. And your comparing WW2 weapons and tech to todays tech, if you scaled what the germans did into modern technology they would be basically preemptively striking with nuclear warheads.
And its not global support that keeps israel alive, they purchase lots and lots of military supplies globally no country would want to lose them as a customer.
The arab countries point out the obvious fact yea they wont start a fucking war with israel because they would get their asses beat, but plenty of governments in the middle east support terrorist actions against israel or at the very least DONT condemn the actions which equates to support in my opinion.
Quoteyour talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war.It sure is, we just haven't encountered a big war yet.
Are you blind? You just said Israel is surrounded by hostile countries. 350,000,000 hostile people - with plenty of guns, money, and oil. How the hell long do you think it would take them to completely overrrun Israel?They did try. the first time was in 1948.
If the Arabs were to round up a massive army, attack - how long do you think Israel would hold?
And the allies of the potential enemy - Iran, Pakistan - they have weapons.
If Israel broke its support - who comes to Israel's aid?
We're not doing Israel any favors by being blind to what they're doing.
/me SingsNo one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them
Carpet bomb Gaza and call it "Glassah strip" or better yet nuke the entire region and rid the world of its stupidity, after that will lynch & hang all the catholic hard liners. once we kill God in all its man made forms we should have a much better crack at that world peace thing. at least we'll be left will a more reasonable bunch...even if its only a couple hundred ppl.
maybe we should get celestial being to do an intervention in this one...
Funny, my colleague said to me "we should just asphalt the whole middle east.... and then put McDonalds in one corner."silly person your colleague is, turning it to glass would be much more productive because it would make it easier to find oil
What is funnier is that he is somewhat related to jews and his aunt or something is living in Israel. Probably because his only impression of the country was that people there suck at driving causing traffic chaos ;D
The militant Palestinians have such short sighted goals, if they hold out just a bit longer they'll win the demographics game. Then shortly after that the middle east will be made unlivable as global climate change rears its ugly snake-like head, combining with an already limited water supply and pollution to make a hydra of despair. Then Jesus will descend from the sky on his flying walrus proclaiming our doom, and we'll all get the day off.what your saying is commit lots of genocide now and save jesus some trouble right ?
In other words, they're all way too stressed out about this occupation thing.
Funny, my colleague said to me "we should just asphalt the whole middle east.... and then put McDonalds in one corner."
What is funnier is that he is somewhat related to jews and his aunt or something is living in Israel. Probably because his only impression of the country was that people there suck at driving causing traffic chaos ;D
The militant Palestinians have such short sighted goals, if they hold out just a bit longer they'll win the demographics game. Then shortly after that the middle east will be made unlivable as global climate change rears its ugly snake-like head, combining with an already limited water supply and pollution to make a hydra of despair. Then Jesus will descend from the sky on his flying walrus proclaiming our doom, and we'll all get the day off.what your saying is commit lots of genocide now and save jesus some trouble right ?
In other words, they're all way too stressed out about this occupation thing.
or did i misread lol
Funny, my colleague said to me "we should just asphalt the whole middle east.... and then put McDonalds in one corner."
What is funnier is that he is somewhat related to jews and his aunt or something is living in Israel. Probably because his only impression of the country was that people there suck at driving causing traffic chaos ;D
Ain't gonna happen boss.
Let me elaborate.
Arabs have big families. Almost like Africans -but-
Arabs happen to have jobs like this: Engineer, Doctor, Pathologist, Computer Scientist, Lawyer, etc....
Africa on the other hand: Poacher, Nigerian Fraudster, Starving Guy, Robert Mugabe, Somalian Pirate, Militant Group Member, etc. Unless you open up that McDonalds in Mugabe's back yard - you're not making shit. You might argue that the Nigerian Fraudster has cash - but he'll rob you right after he buys - so you're still out. Tough place.
They'd do better to leave it alone, open a pool hall & a couple restaurants, and plant a mall near it. A net-cafe or two as well. Screw McDonalds.
Just think of the Middle East as rednecks on steroids (seriously man! It's like the same shit over there. ) Betchya some alligator wrasslin' & waffle houses would be a hit over there. See - they're probably pissed because there's not enough mud & swamps down there.The militant Palestinians have such short sighted goals, if they hold out just a bit longer they'll win the demographics game. Then shortly after that the middle east will be made unlivable as global climate change rears its ugly snake-like head, combining with an already limited water supply and pollution to make a hydra of despair. Then Jesus will descend from the sky on his flying walrus proclaiming our doom, and we'll all get the day off.what your saying is commit lots of genocide now and save jesus some trouble right ?
In other words, they're all way too stressed out about this occupation thing.
or did i misread lol
I think he said just forget about it all because we're all gonna die in the end.
They should all go home and have some sex0r - and it's all good.
Ain't gonna happen boss.
Let me elaborate.
Arabs have big families. Almost like Africans -but-
Arabs happen to have jobs like this: Engineer, Doctor, Pathologist, Computer Scientist, Lawyer, etc....
Africa on the other hand: Poacher, Nigerian Fraudster, Starving Guy, Robert Mugabe, Somalian Pirate, Militant Group Member, etc. Unless you open up that McDonalds in Mugabe's back yard - you're not making shit. You might argue that the Nigerian Fraudster has cash - but he'll rob you right after he buys - so you're still out. Tough place.
They'd do better to leave it alone, open a pool hall & a couple restaurants, and plant a mall near it. A net-cafe or two as well. Screw McDonalds.
Just think of the Middle East as rednecks on steroids (seriously man! It's like the same shit over there. ) Betchya some alligator wrasslin' & waffle houses would be a hit over there. See - they're probably pissed because there's not enough mud & swamps down there.
Don't you mean the Arabs have the money to hire skilled workers? I'm pretty sure most all the engineers are overseas workers from Britain, Germany, US, etc. Even their military has contracted workers from overseas fixing their jets. And this doesn't even count the massive number of Philipinos doing other work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got when last in Saudi Arabia.
It's ironic that these oil wealthy countries, don't have the power that you'd expect to go with it. Being easier to pay for outside help than training their own, plus some religious sects holding them backwards, has much to do with it. All that money and can't defeat a little country that they surround is hilarious.
btw, isn't it convenient that the US is now occupying Iraq? Who said it was all about oil...well, not all directly.Damn, so it was about McDonalds!
Don't they have a lot of KFC's there already..well in Saudi. Odd, that there were no mashed potato side dishes though. So I guess if they aren't potato lovers, then it does make it unlikely for McDonalds to prosper there since it's their fries that make them stand out. Plus McDonalds would have to become more 'kosher', lol.
Ain't gonna happen boss.
Let me elaborate.
Arabs have big families. Almost like Africans -but-
Arabs happen to have jobs like this: Engineer, Doctor, Pathologist, Computer Scientist, Lawyer, etc....
Don't you mean the Arabs have the money to hire skilled workers? I'm pretty sure most all the engineers are overseas workers from Britain, Germany, US, etc. Even their military has contracted workers from overseas fixing their jets. And this doesn't even count the massive number of Philipinos doing other work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got when last in Saudi Arabia.
Anyways - Jordan's my personal worldview of the Middle East. You could say - it's "a step down from Israel" as for the quality of life/modernness and economy - and improving ( a lot. In the time between 1988-today it's seriously developed BIG TIME. I'm not kidding - I went there ages ago ... and it was well, Middle East. I went there today - it was like ... wow. I could actually live here and deal with it... and like it. Though - I'd not want to leave my home to live there. So - just leave it as it's a great place to visit.
And - anyone out of the west, if you've got the guts to visit the Middle East - hang out in Jordan. Friendly, secure, safe, and stable
Israel called a ceasefire and withdrew! >:( Come on Israel, where's your fucking follow through!?! This isn't going to end until Hamas is overthrown. Get back in there and finish what you started!
Israel doesnt want to seriously hurt their relationship with Europe and its completely dependent on America. It needs American money, weapons and support in the security council.
I wish it was true. However as long as the pacifist media is going to be on the Hamas side, Europe will continue talking about brutality while forgetting that the champions in brutality is still Europe and it would take lot of million deaths to change that fact ;)
Hamas isn't a terrorist group but a government and they won a democratic election without fraud.
Hamas isn't a terrorist group but a government and they won a democratic election without fraud.
Hamas has being working with the civils better then Fatah when were the government and thats the reason they won the election.
Hamas aren't terrorist but a group that don't want to be colonized by Israel, so they are just a resistance group that would appear once Israel started the war on middle east.
Before england colonization arabs from all believes were living at peace, thats the truth.
You can't argue with people that doesn't look for the history behind the war and the reason from both sides.I know, horrible that people all forgot about the name "Judea", care to learn history a bit more yourself? If you will insist on it, I will give you the time line of Judea/SyriaPalestina/Israel ownership. Trust me, it has never ever belonged to the squatters that call themselves Palestinians. In truth Philistines disappeared as an ethnic group in the middle of 700 years BC.
Israel has killed many innocents and made over 3millions of Palestine's to leave they're land and still aren't called as terrorists because USA sells weapons for them and support them.
If you can't fight a war with the way of a army you fight on the way of guerrillas and terrorists.
Read this book: Hamas: A Beginner's GuideLet me guess, "Chapter 4: how to make your own home made rocked, next chapter we will cover how to fill the inside of your jacket with explosives." ::)
Read this book: Hamas: A Beginner's GuideRead this book:
The reason that Hamas started firing rockets in the first place is because Israel did not lift their blockade. A blockade is a declaration of war, to most countries and people.
The whole thing is about the battle over property rights. It's not really about anything else. If you look at the core of it, it's property rights. And Israel as a country has no right to claim property that belongs to individuals.Well, it doesn't matter if your house is yours, it is standing on the government controlled soil. This is a practice in all countries in the world and I don't see anyone claiming the property to be not controlled by the government except that one episode of Family Guy where Peter created new country "Petoria".
Blockade is not the declaration of war. Besides they only closed borders. That being said I have seen Norwegian - Russian border when I was in the north. There were barbed wires, fences, outposts, many kilometers of "no man's land" on their side of the border and then they have enough battalions just behind the border to wipe out all our forces if allies do not support us. Does that mean a declaration of war? No it doesn't.
A country has a right to set any kind of wall on the border they want and it is their right to make any policy they want concerning crossing it. Basically all countries have everything ranging from open borders and policies like Schengen Agreement, Visa policies and a tightly closed border like Israel/Gaza and N Korea/S Korea. It is their right and it is not a declaration of war, just usually cold war and that is not a war.
Well, it doesn't matter if your house is yours, it is standing on the government controlled soil. This is a practice in all countries in the world and I don't see anyone claiming the property to be not controlled by the government except that one episode of Family Guy where Peter created new country "Petoria".
Using the Egyptian border is pretty much impossible, from what I've heard.
Also, those assholes are using white phosphorous, which is a war crime in the context they're using it (not supposed to be used near civillian populations). That right there is a war crime in itself, lol. They must have learned from us :pHonestly I never understood that myself. I have read a lot of rules of war and I am proud to say I have the knowledge of what kind of weapons are banned from use (like napalm) or have restricted use (12.7mm explosive rounds only to be used against vehicles and materiel, not people). So I always wondered what kind of idiotic general ordered a smokescreen on the urban location when there are so many cameras filming the war. That is just asking for a tribunal.
I was thinking more what we did to the Native Americans, where we basically took over a country and then claimed their land was ours (The state land is supposed to be owned by both Jews and Arabs, but the Arabs invaded Israel in 1967, then lost the war and the territories they had fair and square.Fixed.
Honestly, I think just the fact that they're killing a ridiculous amount of civilians is reason enough to condemn the hell out of Israel. 50% of Gazans are children, eh?Exactly why HAMAS are the real terrorists and cowards. They hide among their women and children instead of having the balls to make a stand against Israeli army like real men. When you fire rockets from the backyard of your house, then you should not be surprised that your house with your family inside will be bombed.
EDIT: Oh yeah, also, Israel killed two people in Gaza before the first rocket attacks even started.Also Hamas captured Israeli soldiers before that happened.
But the civilians who live there aren't even allowed to flee or anything... how can that be moral in any way?
I concede that I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Israeli history, because I always just though of them as one of America's spoiled children :pTry Great Britain and France. USA became a very close ally only later in the history.
And i guess you could keep going back for hundreds of years if I said, "well, Israel did THIS before Hamas did THAT". lolExactly, that is why this war is not about who is right and who is wrong, but about who is strongest and who will survive.
That being said I am sympathetic with Jews who have exactly the same goal. I wonder why they called their country "Israel" instead of Judea though.
I wonder why they called their country "Israel" instead of Judea though.
I wonder why they called their country "Israel" instead of Judea though.
The Jews still call Judea, Judea. The rest of the world has just chosen to call it the West Bank for some reason.
Maybe I am wrong but didn't Moses say that the Jewish people were effectively banned from the Promised Land until the second coming of Christ? Also you would be surprised at how many Jews are not Zionists because of their belief that they are still a wandering people.Wouldn't a detail like this probably have more to do with Christianity than Judaism? I doubt the Jews would be terribly concerned with the second coming of Christ...
I think both Jews and Arab Muslims should both just get the fuck out. Now this will never happen, but let's examine why that would make sense:
1) According to the Hebrew speaking Semite (now Ashkenazic/Sephardic blood line) tradition, they have not yet been allowed formal access back into Zion or the Promised Land on Earth. I am assuming the promised land is the motherland, known today as Israel.
Maybe I am wrong but didn't Moses say that the Jewish people were effectively banned from the Promised Land until the second coming of Christ? Also you would be surprised at how many Jews are not Zionists because of their belief that they are still a wandering people.
2) Arab Muslims don't belong in Jerusalem. Now this is different for the Arab Christians. Jerusalem is clearly a vital city of importance for Christians and Jews. To my knowledge it has minor negligible significance for Muslims. You don't see Christians making communities and fusses in Mecca, well we expect the same sort of reverence and respect for our Holy city.
3) Load up the place with American ex-patriot Christians. Apparently since this is all about Power why don't we just stop the charade in making believe that we care about what happens to the Jews and just be honest with ourselves? We want the land to counter-balance Russian and Middle Eastern State's power. I mean personally I am interested in making a compromise to where Arab Muslims, Christians and Jews can live in the land in peace. But the national opinion considers that an impossibility. Just cut the bull and make the space a UN protectorate zone and call it a day. Put the Jews in New York (Hey we're over-populated but if it will prevent Nuclear War, we've got plenty of space...) and put the Arab-Muslims in Muslim theocratic nations.
Arab Christians and any other Christians can stay but Muslim and Jews have to get the fuck out. I feel like we are the big boy in the playground breaking up a fight between two shrimps. This is so fucking ridiculous I still can't believe we are about to have a Nuclear War over this shit.
Mainly because they feel a bit squicky about calling a Palestinian territory what essentially amounts to "Jew Land" in ancient Roman.
Proin Drakezol:Hi. My name's Pigeon. (not really) I am an American citizen. I am an atheist. I don't give a fuck more or less about the Israeli nation than I do the Arab nation - I only care about the collective decisions of the Israeli and Palestinian people. I also agree wholeheartedly with Proin's foreign policy in regards to Israel.
Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:
1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.
I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Proin Drakezol:
Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:
1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.
I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Unfortunately what you have to realize is that this is not my opinion that I am stating here this is what is going to happen if Israel doesn't get their shit in gear. What you don't realize is that our politicians are just like your politicians except more powerful and stupider and as seen with Bush, very hasty to act. What I stated will happen eventually if somebody does not concede. They will clear out the Jews and Arabs and put American [soldiers] there and make it a sanctioned zone. Either that or leave everyone as they are but the land will no longer be considered Israel but an International Military Zone. And trust me if this was McCain he would have already gotten you blown to kingdom come by ordering a hit out on both the leader of Hamas along with Mr. Goat Cheese Amenhijehad.
What Israelis don't seem to realize is they are not just putting themselves in danger of being completely obliterated by Iran, they are putting us in danger by showing improper conduct in War and making more enemies for us.
Aside from this...
Yes I know the UN is gay.
Yes I know technically the Jews are in the right.
However, none of this shit matters when it comes to Power. The USA is dying and our political representatives along with about 60% of the population are either still in a blissful state of ignorance or complete denial.
If the Jews continue to fuck around they will un-do any positive negotiations and/or progress we have made with Egypt and surrounding countries for years to come. Honestly it comes down to this. The Suez Canal or Israel? Which do you think America is going to give up if it ever came down to it?
Proin Drakezol:Hi. My name's Pigeon. (not really) I am an American citizen. I am an atheist. I don't give a fuck more or less about the Israeli nation than I do the Arab nation - I only care about the collective decisions of the Israeli and Palestinian people. I also agree wholeheartedly with Proin's foreign policy in regards to Israel.
Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:
1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.
I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Do I need to emigrade to Israel or murder somebody or is your ad hominem argument completely without merit?
The USA is hardly "dying." The world fell into recession when we did, the world is waiting with bated breath for us to fix ourselves so the world economy picks up. China doesn't want a position of leadership, they're more isolationist than we were after World War I. The EU can't even agree on what kind of drapes to get, let alone on major decisions affecting other countries. So who else to lead but the United States?
QuoteThe USA is hardly "dying." The world fell into recession when we did, the world is waiting with bated breath for us to fix ourselves so the world economy picks up. China doesn't want a position of leadership, they're more isolationist than we were after World War I. The EU can't even agree on what kind of drapes to get, let alone on major decisions affecting other countries. So who else to lead but the United States?
Why do we need someone to lead anyone? Isn't that against the principle of sovereign nations? Why can't the countries just lead themselves? And btw didn't you realise? We don't have a unipolar world, USA isn't leading more then a minority of the world. Especially after Europe said "fuck you" by creating EU.
I don't know why countries can't lead themselves, they just never seem to be able to do it.
And as I already mentioned, the EU couldn't lead its way out of a paper bag. You yourself don't even like it, at least according to your posts.I don't like it exactly because it tries to lead other sovereign nations and it's blackmail methods to gain members. If to think about EU as one country (which is not and never should be), then it's not doing a bad job. It consists of countries who have the best quality of life and who are role models of democracy and way of life in this world.
And as much as you say the US doesn't lead, I still see so many countries looking to the US to solve the world financial crisis, solve problems in third world countries, provide disaster relief aid, etc.US solving problems in third world countries fail in all ways except the military ones. Hell, do you know who is a prime contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions? Pakistan, direct quote from wiki:
About 4.5% of the troops and civilian police deployed in UN peacekeeping missions come from the European Union and less than one percent from the United States (USA).
About 4.5% of the troops and civilian police deployed in UN peacekeeping missions come from the European Union and less than one percent from the United States (USA).
Proin Drakezol:
Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:
1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.
I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Unfortunately what you have to realize is that this is not my opinion that I am stating here this is what is going to happen if Israel doesn't get their shit in gear. What you don't realize is that our politicians are just like your politicians except more powerful and stupider and as seen with Bush, very hasty to act. What I stated will happen eventually if somebody does not concede. They will clear out the Jews and Arabs and put American [soldiers] there and make it a sanctioned zone. Either that or leave everyone as they are but the land will no longer be considered Israel but an International Military Zone. And trust me if this was McCain he would have already gotten you blown to kingdom come by ordering a hit out on both the leader of Hamas along with Mr. Goat Cheese Amenhijehad.
What Israelis don't seem to realize is they are not just putting themselves in danger of being completely obliterated by Iran, they are putting us in danger by showing improper conduct in War and making more enemies for us.
Aside from this...
Yes I know the UN is gay.
Yes I know technically the Jews are in the right.
However, none of this shit matters when it comes to Power. The USA is dying and our political representatives along with about 60% of the population are either still in a blissful state of ignorance or complete denial.
If the Jews continue to fuck around they will un-do any positive negotiations and/or progress we have made with Egypt and surrounding countries for years to come. Honestly it comes down to this. The Suez Canal or Israel? Which do you think America is going to give up if it ever came down to it?
rofl Istanbul was captured in 1453 so more than 550 years its in the hands of Turks with more than 10 million people living I guess it would be fantasy to call it ours
However historically when we did not have enough defences and buffer zones against the spread of Islam it ended with loosing Europe's biggest city at the time, a jewel of a metropolis called Constantinople. Now it is called Istanbul and has a freaking crescent on rooftops. If I would have the power, I would obliterate the Turkey, push them back and retake what is ours.
And it was European for a thousand years before the Turks. It rightfully ours and I can't wait to see the Turks losing control over it. So what if there are millions of people in it? There were people when Turks occupied it. If they could do it, then we should be able to do it as well.come on how old are you 7-8 ??? if you want to see the right to control over Anatolia read about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul). Staying peacefully without knowing anything happening out there on Scandinavian countries ( I guess you are from there) would give you right to get rid of 10 million of people???
But destroying everything at the gaza wont solve the problem...
rofl Istanbul was captured in 1453 so more than 550 years its in the hands of Turks with more than 10 million people living I guess it would be fantasy to call it ours
Technically, that actually is a solution, and would/could solve the problem. It's immoral, and would no way be approved by any country, even the pro-Israel US, but it is indeed a solution. Just not an acceptable one by any ethical country.
come on how old are you 7-8 ??? if you want to see the right to control over Anatolia read about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul). Staying peacefully without knowing anything happening out there on Scandinavian countries ( I guess you are from there) would give you right to get rid of 10 million of people???
And about Gaza ( I don't want to leave the topic if someone wants to argue about freaking crescent on rooftops can pm me or open a topic) the main problem is to acknowledge each other Arabs living there do not acknowledge Israel as a country which is just meaningless... In my opinion some problems can be solved by letting the Jews live there and as for Israel opening the borders of Gaza so that people can live a better life ( As now they are living in a open air prison
While I wouldn't call Egypt 'ethical', they fit that description more than most of the Middle East, and they'd love to see Gaza (as well as Israel and the West Bank) disappear.Many people would love to see that happen, none speaks of it because they are afraid of public opinion.
Many people would love to see that happen, none speaks of it because they are afraid of public opinion.
Hamas is a legitimately elected government ,throwing enough elected officials in jail to instal a puppet leader does not change this.Hamas is also a terrorrist group recognized as one by USA, EU, Canada, Australia and Japan. In other words those who matter.
"Human shield" the perfect excuse to kill as many civilians as they want to make a point.It's not an excuse, it's a fact. As long as Hamas hides inside the civilian population instead of either giving up or fighting to the death outside the city, they are responsible for using civilians as a human shield. I challenge you counter this fact.
Gaza is a prison it is not like they can go somewhere else.
Using phosphorous on civilians ,cutting of food and power and clean water to an entire population ,the theft of Palestinian lands by illegal settlements and murder of elected officials and even bombing UN schools(there were never any fighters there either) are all the kind of actions you would expect from terrorists.
Maybe someone will give Hamas a nobel peace prize?It's one thing that a brutal dictator like Dalai Llama gets a price, but a terrorist organisation that will fire rockets on civilian cities the same day it will be getting the price? Somewhere it just crosses the line.
When a country loses a war it is only expected that they lose territory. Look at the history of Europe, do you have any idea how many states there were in Europe just the last century that don't even exist today? You lose a war, you lose a country. It's not a theft, but occupation.
Just look at how large my country used to be before we lost a couple of wars, we got over it.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9830/1658ja0.gif)
True, but Egypt is the only State I can see officially celebrating the annihilation of both Israel and the Palestinians.
Mexicans cross the border at the risk of being killed everyday just to earn an honest dollar, yet they are abandoned and mistreated by their own government.They are not that bad in terms of economy and civil structure compared to countries in South America. The ones that cross borders are losers that can't find jobs in their own countries. Fun fact: unemployment in USA is bigger then unemployment in Mexico.
because if they were they would realize they are being used by the U.S. and Soviet Union who don't give a damn if they both anihilate each other.Soviet Union does not exist. History fail.
Israel needs to stop acting as the arm of the United States in the Middle EastIsrael carries out action of self interest and not those of USA, otherwise they would contribute in Iraq. Political fail.
and Russia needs to stop interfering in the matters of the Arab-Muslim world.Selling weapons is not interfering in the matters of other countries. Economical understanding fail.
I think most sane Palestinians have emigrated abroad by now. (Long before Arafat died)They are, ran away about 40 years ago. only extremists and terrorists are left.
Fun fact: unemployment in USA is bigger then unemployment in Mexico.
rofl Istanbul was captured in 1453 so more than 550 years its in the hands of Turks with more than 10 million people living I guess it would be fantasy to call it ours
However historically when we did not have enough defences and buffer zones against the spread of Islam it ended with loosing Europe's biggest city at the time, a jewel of a metropolis called Constantinople. Now it is called Istanbul and has a freaking crescent on rooftops. If I would have the power, I would obliterate the Turkey, push them back and retake what is ours.
I have been reading up on my WW1 history and was surprised to find out that France and Britain actually promised Constantinople to Russia during the war. Now if the Russians had stayed in the war Constantinople would be a Christian city today.
Selling weapons is not interfering in the matters of other countries. Economical understanding fail.
Selling weapons is not interfering in the matters of other countries. Economical understanding fail.
So let's use the domestic analogy here and say I sold a gun to you and told you to do whatever you want with it. I am a (legally operating) licensed arms sales personnel and it is a small community with only about 1,000 people and I know you are one of the many neighborhood troublemakers.
You go take my advice literally, and shoot another guy for some cash and then you are arrested and put in jail.
(Let's say you are of legal age and have a gun permit. The transaction was entirely legal on paper.)
But was it moral?
I'll leave that up for you to decide. :)
I agree that the U.S. should act in it's own self-interest, but it should not pretend that it is acting morally
Hamas is a legitimately elected government ,throwing enough elected officials in jail to instal a puppet leader does not change this.
Americas involvement in Europe to prevent one power from dominating the continent (Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union)
Maybe morality is just easier to sell then power politics to a deeply religious public that values morality and many of whom might lack the intellect or interest to understand somewhat complex national interests.
Is it not only morally correct to sell weapons in order for the people of your nation to thrive, isn't that a sole responsibility of a leader? Besides I am not sure what you mean by immoral sale, because as far as I know, Russia does not sell to the aggressor countries in middle east. At least at the present time.
Being an arms dealer or producer isn't all that it's cracked up to be. War may be profitable for the short term, but it's a business that doesn't leave much room for a long-term career, pension or freebies. On the other hand when you have a fascist state or dictatorship style regime, you have a permanent and stable customer with long term profit assured, where as with complex ethnic conflicts and intra-state scuffles you have to constantly be looking over your shoulder and looking out to see that your employees are being blown to ash by land mines and paramilitary sentinels.
QuoteAmericas involvement in Europe to prevent one power from dominating the continent (Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union)
History fail. America was an considered an isolationist country until WW2.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_was_the_US_involved_in_World_War_2
QuoteAmericas involvement in Europe to prevent one power from dominating the continent (Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union)
History fail. America was an considered an isolationist country until WW2.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_was_the_US_involved_in_World_War_2
It was isolationist until WW2 with the one exception of WW1 which also happens to be the only time prior to WW2 that one power was in a position to dominate Europe. Its easy to be isolationist when Europe enjoyed an unprecedented period of peace (at least the absence of major war) between the Napoleonic wars and world war one (1815-1914). When Imperial Germany was in a position to dominate Europe America left its isolation, same was true with Nazi Germany and it never returned to isolation when the Soviets threatened to do the same.
The US didn't care (publically at least) about a domination of Europe. Lusitania was sunk and the Germans were sending out messages to the Mexicans about retaking Texas. You kind've have to step-up there.
The US didn't care (publically at least) about a domination of Europe. Lusitania was sunk and the Germans were sending out messages to the Mexicans about retaking Texas. You kind've have to step-up there.
What the Germans were proposing was Mexico joining the war against America IF the US joined WW1. Which the German leadership who all understood international politics saw as almost inevitable.
America was already supplying the Allies, helping to keep them fighting. Germany werent that afraid of sinking American ships since they believed America would join sooner or later anyway.
What stopped America was public opinion. Both Theodore Roosevelt and Wilson saw the need for entering the war but to say it would be political suicide. The sinking of American ships helped swing public opinion and it gave America a good reason to join. Im as thankful as everyone else in Europe should be that America did, but you dont send 2 million men over seas over a few dead sailors. The sinking of RMS Lusitania had about as much to do with ww1 as the attack on America ships in the gulf of tonkin had to do with the Vietnam war.
My Philosophy professor notified us today that there is a great chance that Neutron bombs will be used resulting in partial Nuclear War in which Mutually Assured Destruction will not occur because Hamas doesn't have any nuclear weapons and Iran I believe only has 1 or 2 and I don't think it would be wise of them to waste it for non-defensive purposes.
The Japanese may not have deserved Hiroshima but I think it was justifiable after finding out about the Rape of Nanking and other atrocities they committed upon the Chinese.
However, Palestinians are merely trying to assert autonomy over their own homeland and identity. It would not be morally just to use nuclear arms because they are not a threat, despite the fact they are being represented and led by the nose of an irrational non-state actor.
If I may suggest: not the use of nuclear weapons, but fuel air bomb. You can either use American Mother of all bombs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aBfOOo-n5k), or Russian more powerful counterpart Father of all bombs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2FGA3Z-oYM&feature=related).
Sometimes the most pragmatic solution is the most morally offensive.
My Philosophy professor notified us today that there is a great chance that Neutron bombs will be used resulting in partial Nuclear War in which Mutually Assured Destruction will not occur because Hamas doesn't have any nuclear weapons and Iran I believe only has 1 or 2 and I don't think it would be wise of them to waste it for non-defensive purposes.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant to say that he said the United States would be testing the efficacy of Mini- neutron bombs as an anti-personnel weapon.
However so is Hamas and the Palestinians. I understand while the Jews were there first you cannot just kick all the Palestinians to Egypt(who won't take them anyways). What about the Bedouins who have been there possibly as long as the Hebrews? There are some other arab-minority groups in Israel's territories aside from the Palestinians, I think all the great powers that be are concerned with in actuality is more with the PLACE rather than the legitimacy of the PEOPLE who are at risk in these territories.
The current Palestinians are a hodgepodge of refugees from WWII, refugees from the invasions of Israel after WWII, refugees from other Arab wars, and terrorists from other Arab countries looking to take advantage of destitute refugees. I'm sure there are a handful of real Palestinians left, but they're easily overwhelmed by the people dumped off by the rest of the Arab world as if they were refuse.
and terrorists from other Arab countries looking to take advantage of destitute refugees
Yeah, and this is pretty much why Hamas exists. If the Arab countries really cared about their cousins, instead of giving them bombs they would be giving them food, shelter and/or aid.
why aren't we doing anything about it in terms of Development, Infrastructure and Stability of the local economy (Which will, in the end, assist all peace-building efforts)?
Compare that with the Jews who lived in areas under Arab control, they all either fled, were driven away or was outright murdered. There were none left prior to the settlements.
false
While the Arabs today live in Israel as equal citizens the Jews who live the Palestinian areas have to live in settlements with full military protection, to avoid being killed.
true
Also Jewish armed resistance to British rule cant be compared with what the PLO and Hamas does. Im not supporting the terrorists attacks by groups like Irgun but there is a difference between attacking British military targets and blowing up buses and coffee shop full of innocent people. One has to remembered that the King David hotel in those days was the center of British rule, it housed both the British military headquarter and the secretariat administrating British Palestine. Not to mention that a bomb threat was called in before the attack to try to avoid unnecessary casualties. Does that make it ok? No but there is simply no comparison between that and what Hamas is doing.
What most of you people are not realizing (and what the Pro-Zionists seem to be dodging) is that ALL OF THIS IS THE BRITISH IMPERIAL ADMINISTRATION'S FAULT along with the United States administration at the time for BLINDLY doling out "self-determination" without regard for the potential explosive increase in regional tensions. The process should have been more guided and definitely younger countries should have been led by the hand so as not to trip and fall making easily foreseeable errors (from our perspective, and that of the old world, Western Europe).
Compare that with the Jews who lived in areas under Arab control, they all either fled, were driven away or was outright murdered. There were none left prior to the settlements.
false
The Israeli response to the rocket attacks etc seems so out of proportion that it can't be anything
other than revenge murders on a huge scale. If one Israeli dies it seems like 500 innocent Palestinians
many of them women and children are killed the next day. Or the siege in Lebanon where entire neighborhoods were leveled.
The American anti imperialist push after ww2 as morally righteous as it might have been was irresponsible. America used Britains weak position and enormous debt to hasten the deconstruction of the empire.
yes
The violent and non-violent nationalist movements in the colonies also pushed the British to pull out far sooner then what would have been best for the colonies and western security.
absolutely
However I find it hard to blame Britain for not ensuring a more stable and peaceful future for its colonies. They were so destroyed by the two world wars that there werent much to put up against the pressure from America and the freedom movements. Its not an exaggeration to say that Britain sacrificed its empire to stop the Nazis. But where it really mattered like in Malaya the British still stayed and fought to defeat the communists before handing that country over to a responsible government. If only the French had done that in Indochina.
Granted Britain may have been haggard and beaten in a Post WWII state of affairs, what about now? Have they merely "forgotten" about their responsibilities for their former subjugated peoples?
The Israeli response to the rocket attacks etc seems so out of proportion that it can't be anything
other than revenge murders on a huge scale. If one Israeli dies it seems like 500 innocent Palestinians
many of them women and children are killed the next day. Or the siege in Lebanon where entire neighborhoods were leveled.
This is my main issue with the Israeli government, Mayor Bloomberg (fantastic fiscal planner, horrifically uninformed on social issues) and others stress that proportionality cannot be applied when fighting non-state irrational actors. Fair enough. But we should actively look to be reducing casualties at all costs. We have the higher, more precise and advanced technology, we can do it.
I read an interesting Headline today. Israel can be Democratic or Jewish but not both.
This is also my issue with Israel. If Israel looks like a Theocracy (or a state that gives preferential rights, resources and opportunities to Jews) when this is all said and done, America's credibility for "Democracy and Equality" will be ripped to shreds, the double-standard will be revealed and we will never be able to redeem ourselves in the Middle East ever again. We cannot impose these values on the Ayatollah and Iran and say "Your state should be more Democratic and there should be a separation of Church and State." While supporting a Theocratic Israel. Basically saying: "Do AS I say and not AS I do." The ultimate hypocrisy incarnate. Much of our respect will lie in how we treat Arab-Muslim citizens in the Post-War situation. So far from what I've seen there has been no preferential treatment of any source (at least visible from a bird's eye view) but I am not on the ground level there so I couldn't say for sure.
Also it really doesn't matter what "the Arabs" did or did not do in regards as to what is right or wrong.
My country Canada is fighting in Afghanistan and even though the Taliban might use suicide bombers and terror tactics that
does not make it OK for us to do it. Really if you are using the same evil tactics as your enemy how on earth can claim to be
morally superior? So I guess the IDF IS exactly the same type of terrorist group as they say Hamas is if they are willing to kill 100 civilians just to get one enemy?
Much like the Vietcong, these will be the toughest enemies we will have ever faced or probably ever WILL face as a nation. They have completely different values from ours and much like the Chinese, their value applied to the individual is minimal. However, even if they exist for the community, they should realize that the United States remains infinitely stronger. Despite the fact that 9/11 was seen as a crushing blow to our Hegemony it really wasn't. The U.S. Republicans are stubborn as Oxes and will stop at nothing to obliterate Non-Christian nations. If the Muslim-Arab World values it's existence it will either a) Try their best not to anger Republicans b) Cooperate with Democrats so as to convey a sane, moral and rational community to the American People. Because in the end it will partially be the American people's decision whether or not to actively participate in the annihilation of an entire race or religion. (Although some such as Michael Moore say that the decision was never in our hands to begin with.)
I have to admit IX4 that is a very well reasoned insightful argument.
Some good points about the King David hotel bombing as well.
However I could use the same argument that if the KD hotel is a legitimate target
then so are the illegal Israeli settlements that are the target of most of the rocket attacks.
While innocents can be hurt in these attacks the settlements are a weapon used against
the Palestinians.
The Israeli response to the rocket attacks etc seems so out of proportion that it can't be anything
other than revenge murders on a huge scale. If one Israeli dies it seems like 500 innocent Palestinians
many of them women and children are killed the next day. Or the siege in Lebanon where entire neighborhoods were leveled.
I read an interesting Headline today. Israel can be Democratic or Jewish but not both.
Also it really doesn't matter what "the Arabs" did or did not do in regards as to what is right or wrong.
My country Canada is fighting in Afghanistan and even though the Taliban might use suicide bombers and terror tactics that
does not make it OK for us to do it. Really if you are using the same evil tactics as your enemy how on earth can claim to be
morally superior? So I guess the IDF IS exactly the same type of terrorist group as they say Hamas is if they are willing to kill 100
civilians just to get one enemy?
In debating the legitimacy of these Israeli settlements one encounters the same quandary when debating over Israel's sovereignty as a nation.
The U.S. and it's allies believe Israel has the right to exist.
The Soviet Union does not want Israel to exist, merely because it is our ally.
The Arab-Muslim regimes refuse to believe that Israel should exist, similarly, because they are our allies.
As I said in previous posts, unless the ties and sentiments to the Pan-Arabist movement and allegiances to the Ottoman Empire are more deeply understood by the West there will never be peace in the region.
Post-Colonialism still lurks in the politics and national sentiments of Egypt and the former annexed Republic of Palestine. In the same way that many of the Pro-Zionists say that Palestine never existed, the neighboring Arab countries feel that Israel has never "truly" existed.
All of this is a matter of perception which can be highly manipulated.
This is why I believe that the only way to end the violence is by coming up with a treaty that respects the identities and comprehensive human rights of both the Arabs and Jews living in the region EQUALLY without discrimination.
What the Anti-proportionality crowd also does not understand is that Radical Muslims feed off of the Oppression of their brethren. Every time a Muslim child is killed by stray fragments of explosives we prove their radical beliefs to be correct and morally just.
While this may seem sick and demented to us, to them it is a valid and honorary set of values held dear that drives them to continue sacrificing their own people for the perceived strength of their community (emphasis on perceived).
As I have also said before, Islam doesn't necessarily emphasize the individual over the collective. This becomes problematic when totaling casualties and perceived damages to the rebels. What they perceive as damaging most likely does not correspond to what we view as damages.
While it is not realistic to follow a "turn the other cheek" policy, instead of knocking the person out cold for his transgressions, why not grab his hand and attempt to speak to him, instead of shutting him up before you get to hear what he has to say? While it is not expected for soldiers to follow this policy it is SURELY THE MINIMAL AMOUNT OF EFFORT that should be expected of our politicians and legislators who are communicating (or not communicating) with these constituencies.
Sorry for the constipated language, but the focus of this entire issue is rooted in Philosophical doctrine. And what is ironic is that even Western schools of thought which operate on these Philosophical precepts are largely in unanimous disagreement for the most part with U.S. actions in the Middle East overall.
Russia actually supported Israel in the beginning because of its strongly communist and socialist leanings in the form of Kibutzim.
Eleven minutes after the Declaration of Independence was signed, President Truman de facto recognized the State of Israel, followed by Iran (which had voted against the UN partition plan), Guatemala, Iceland, Nicaragua, Romania and Uruguay. The Soviet Union was the first nation to recognize Israel de jure on 17 May 1948, followed by Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Ireland and South Africa.[11] The United States extended official recognition on 31 January 1949.[12]
As mentioned earlier, around one million Israelis are Russian-speakers who immigrated in the last 12 years. They make up around 20 percent of Israel's Jewish population and are a powerful political, cultural, and economic force in the country. Their impact has not only been significant in the country's internal politics, but has also altered Russia's perception of Israel and hence bilateral relations and mutual perceptions.
Israel is also a choice destination for Russian tourists – which is not surprising since it is one of the few countries outside the former USSR where large numbers of people are both willing and able to speak Russian. (Many East Europeans can also speak Russian, but are often unwilling to do so – especially with Russians.) Further, the number of Russian tourists visiting Israel is only likely to grow since they can now travel there without obtaining a visa in advance.
Reread this entire fucking thread. If you read the facts it's pretty fucking clear.
And their children's television programming tells them to become suicide bombers. They obviously have fucked up values.
Realize the fortune you have in being born American and have Empathy for the people that were not born into a community emphasizing the freedom of the mind, body and spirit. For one day it may be us who are in the situation of being called "Ruthless Vagabonds and Rebels" and the tables will be turned. We will want those same people to attempt to understand OUR struggle as we understood theirs.
I and true Americans WILL NOT participate in the support of: ...Of course not, they will open up Casinos in Nevada reservations. ::)
I hope that one is not being aimed at me because I would take it as great insult.Comment is directed at any and all Americans who forget that we are truly privileged to be born in and be members of this great nation with great potential.
The Monglos just rode around the wall and conquered China.
I also don't understand how anyone can say that Israel's blowing up a whole block
of innocent people to try and kill one guy is any different than a suicide bomber?
It is not your weapons that make you a terrorist but whether you kill innocent people and civilians.How many of them are morally innocent? By that I mean those who do not shetler, feed, elect and support Hamas?
Say your a Palistinian ,you were born in Gaza ,you used to have a farm but now that is an illegal settlement ,you have to go through
checkpoints every few blocks ,water ,food and electricity are always out. You have never been involved in politics but one day your home with several members of your family inside is leveled because Israeli intelligence got word that you had built a missile silo camouflaged as a farm and fired a missile there a day ago. They got him but a dozen innocent people as well.
If you don't want to fight back you are not human. Israel says the only way they will stop killing is if you and everyone else totally surrenders. That means if one Palestinian is still pissed enough to make a rocket there will never be peace.
As long as they fight in middle east, they will not try to encroach on Europe, except of the Turks which I would love to obliterate as a nation.
The Turks want to become PART of the European Union. They have massive immigration to Germany. Perhaps you will want to contact the German Diet/Parliament and tell them to stop importing Turks before this transpires.
Also for anyone saying that blockade is not an answer I will tell this: remember the Chinese wall? It sure as hell worked for them!
The Chinese wall required:
1) Immense amount of soldiers (Well China is #1 in population so it works out.) Also I believe their Male population exceeds the females by 5%-10%.
2) Unity, Uniformity in politics at the national/federal level to authorize the creation of said wall (which Europe does not typically have)
The fact of the matter is all Proin is arguing is that "We have tried over and over again to come to talks with these people but they continue to violate the terms of established peace talks and cease-fires."
What you have to realize is that a lot of these people are IGNORANT. They only know what Hamas teaches them and they have no idea what is going on, who they are up against and why they are fighting.
Guess what? This means they are not morally responsible for all of their actions.
You people keep stressing "the facts" but unfortunately Facts are based on one's prior knowledge, learning capability and resources. In some places in the Middle East there is no T.V. and barely radio. All you know of is hearsay, the occasional newspaper and what soldiers may tell you. I highly doubt half the people who support Hamas even know what America is, what it stands for, or it's history. So how can we blame these people who don't know anything about us.
The only people we can hold reprehensible for these crimes against Israelis are the Hamas politicians themselves, the Arab-Muslim administrations that support them and other constituencies that donate WEAPONS (not humanitarian aid) to them. You can say all you want about Democracy being only possible "when the people stand up to demand it", but a convieniently forgotten yet crucial part of that sentence is "- when INFORMED people stand up to demand it".
Half of these people don't even speak fucking English. How the fuck do they know anything about us let alone be able to trust us with their nation and their people. As I said time and time again (but the feverent Zionists just won't let up) unless GENUINE UNDERSTANDING is reached, people will continue to kill each other mercilessly with reckless abadon and no true comprehension of WHO they are killing.
I am too lazy to do math now, but I am sure that mortality rate is higher then birth rate, so this problem should go away after some decades.
The Turks want to become PART of the European Union. They have massive immigration to Germany. Perhaps you will want to contact the German Diet/Parliament and tell them to stop importing Turks before this transpires.
The Chinese wall required:
1) Immense amount of soldiers (Well China is #1 in population so it works out.) Also I believe their Male population exceeds the females by 5%-10%.
2) Unity, Uniformity in politics at the national/federal level to authorize the creation of said wall (which Europe does not typically have)
Dragoon AceHigh conveniently avoids my previous argument which nullifies the negative light in which some people may view that the Palestinian people are giving aid and shelter to Hamas:
Yep, not only are you too lazy to attempt and view the problem from a Native Palestinian perspective, you simply do not give a shit whether an entire people are obliterated.Correct, I don't give a shit. I don't see them as entire people because they are not an own ethnic group. Just a bunch of Arabs from different neighbouring countries. (Pretty much like americans). And don't tell me that obliterating Gaza will kill all Arabs. See? No genocide.
It would be safe to say that you would be against any policies that would accept Palestinian refugees into the United States or Europe,Correct once again. What a fuck do we need them for in our country? They are not even useful in any way whatsoever, they are born into war and have no skills to contribute to society. And if they flee, they should go to Syria, Egypt and countries with similar cultural values. I see no reason for them Islamizing Europe.
since you would rather have them all just "disappear" than actually come up with a moral solution to the problem.Correct again! I think "disappearing" is a solution. Also morality is a personal perception and my moral values have no problem with them. So it is a moral solution.
And please don't try and provide a "Realist dialogue" because Realism only works up until a certain point, in which it has to be tethered before all human life on earth is annihilated. If there is even a small chance that we can stop this conflict and resolve problems litigiously, it should be done in that manner.Diplomacy on paper is vague and temporal at best, dominance achieved through war makes for much stronger diplomatic relations. Remember Chamberlain tried to negotiate with Hitler because there "was a small chance" and USA nuked 2 Japanese cities filled with civilians and guess what relations they have now? I think Japan is the most trustworthy ally USA has right now.
Morality may be subjective to a degree but all have the right to live.
Guess who is King now? I'm going to say the European Union. And who is Queen? I'm going to say that is BRIC (Brazil/Russia/India/China) countries combined.
1)Why are we still in Israel when supposedly the real danger is in Afghanistan?You are not? there are no significant amount of US or EU troops in Israel.
2) Why aren't we cooperating with the Indian military to quell the Al Qaeda/Taliban (potential) cooperative threat?Now that I think about it maybe it is because of their observer status in SCO?
"A right to live" is a man made law which carries no weight or impact in this universe. It is not a right, but a privilege granted by some countries who are able to provide that to their people.
It is unreasonable for the U.S. to carry the global economy on it's shoulders and as with the story of the Behemoth it is incredibly slow to react.
BRIC? Nah, SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation)I wonder if they will take the King status ones India and Pakistan become full member. I mean all those combined is one hell of a huge army.(click to show/hide)
You shouldnt worry too much about SCO. Its not much of an alliance compared to something like NATO. Its more like a cooperation to keep American influence out of central asia, something China and Russia werent strong enough to do on their own when america was at its peek. Russia is still just as large of a threat to China as America is, the same is true with Russia. They need each other to counter balance America but they also need America to counter balance each other. As for Pakistan and India, their security needs are very different. The primary threat to India is Pakistan and vice versa, they seek to limits each other influence in the region. India also has to seek help to counterbalance its more powerful neighbor China, where it needs America. It makes sense for Pakistan to cooperate with China against India but not against anyone else. They have no reason to cooperate with SCO other then to make sure its not used as a tool against themselves.
The overwhelming threat from Russia forced NATO to cooperate, Russia was much more of a threat to the members then the members were to each other. As long as the SCO members fear each other more then they fear any outside force they cant have an effective alliance.
You shouldnt worry too much about SCO. Its not much of an alliance compared to something like NATO.
Regarding the SCO, we still have perfect capability in swaying India to our side. It is not too late."A right to live" is a man made law which carries no weight or impact in this universe. It is not a right, but a privilege granted by some countries who are able to provide that to their people.
We are not Monkeys, it is estimated by economists that if all the wealth were distributed evenly and population were kept at current levels, and if education were up to snuff, most humans could live as middle class citizens, worldwide.
I guess I am only speaking for myself, but if I were the CEO of a company I could probably live with not having a Mercedes Benz and taking public transportation to work if it would save the lives of some unfortunate peoples in a Lesser Developed Country. But the point is that population control cannot occur because it crosses the boundaries between that of Man and God. And if we cannot justify war as a device to keep population under control then we must justify redistribution of assets, which may be socialist in nature but essential if we do not want global markets to crumble like a yahtzee tower when the big guy sneezes. It's somewhat similar to humans. If you have a huge guy like Shaq who is over 7-feet tall you get all kinds of problems with the knees and tendons from the weight he's carrying, not to mention cardiovascular problems from having to pump blood to such a huge body. But if you had 3 normal sized guys you could produce the same amount of work with much less strain on each person's body. It is unreasonable for the U.S. to carry the global economy on it's shoulders and as with the story of the Behemoth it is incredibly slow to react.
We need to begin empowering Lesser Developed Countries so that our sicknesses really in the end don't mean "It's the end of the world". At least then they will begin to be able to be self-sustained and maybe even help us out one day when we are in need.
I don't know why NATO exists anymore, it's not pragmatically useful.
I don't know why NATO exists anymore, it's not pragmatically useful.
Its main purpose is the same as its always been, a common defense against Russia. Just ask the new east Europeans members and the once lining up to join, its not that they are desperate to help the poor Afghan children. Which is also why NATO has problems doing anything else. 25 countries on two continents are bound to have different national interests. The only thing that binds them together is the will to keep Russian influence out of Europe, so they tend to quarrel about everything else.
Its still less of a cluster fuck then something like the UN whos members have absolutely nothing in common and can agree on almost nothing.
I just don't think that Russia represents a threat to warrant such a pact - the only ones Russia is imposing on seems to be 2nd world, former Soviet satellites, so I can understand their motivation, but not the powerful states which have been investing in the Russian economy - the major risk to those powers is the Russian nuclear stockpile being looted or otherwise compromised, which really should be dealt with.