Code Geass

[mgz]

This is the one thing I would be interested in seeing in "season 3". Should Lelouch be alive due to the code, then he won't have his geass. So, in order for him to play any major role whatsoever, it will have to be with just the simple fact that he is immortal (but that also means he can give Geass to others by forming a contract ).

Actually......since he would have his father's Code, he could very much still HAVE the Geass from C.C. And then, he would have achieved Code Geass.

nothing they have said or shown has left us with much clues as to him having his fathers code because he used 2 eye geass before finishing his father off in magic land through the doors, and that his objective was to trap his father there for eternity since he was immortal.

[Essedus]

This is the one thing I would be interested in seeing in "season 3". Should Lelouch be alive due to the code, then he won't have his geass. So, in order for him to play any major role whatsoever, it will have to be with just the simple fact that he is immortal (but that also means he can give Geass to others by forming a contract ).

Actually......since he would have his father's Code, he could very much still HAVE the Geass from C.C. And then, he would have achieved Code Geass.

nothing they have said or shown has left us with much clues as to him having his fathers code because he used 2 eye geass before finishing his father off in magic land through the doors, and that his objective was to trap his father there for eternity since he was immortal.

So he could have gotten the code AFTER he dissapeared. And it woudn't have activated untill his death. That's what I belive

[mgz]

but its highly unlikely for them to make lelouch live, they would receive a ton of flak for doing it.

Chances are a new unknown character who was involved further in CC's past to surface or something like that. Just much more likely for them to continue the story without lelouch then create a way that lelouch lived and piss off thousands upon thousands of fans of the show.

[iindigo]

Another possibility for an "R3" would be an alternate universe. It could turn out really lame or really good...

[AceHigh]

Another possibility for an "R3" would be an alternate universe. It could turn out really lame or really good...

You are thinking about Code "Geass: Suzaku of the Counter attack" and "Code Geass: Nightmare of Nunnally"?

[iindigo]

Perhaps, but remember that alternate universes can encompass many other things such as different times, different settings, swapped roles, and more.

[Sakura588]

I bet I know how they will work around the whole "his father died but Lelouch still used his Geass on Schniezel after that, which would ultimately prove (as far as we know) that he didn't obtain the code" situation: the person who would inherit the code needs to die. Charles, as far as we can tell, didn't have the code until he was killed by Lelouch, and only following that incident did he decide to commence the final part of his plans. C.C. got the code from that nun, but maybe she didn't get it right afterwards; my guess is that she tried to kill herself for what happened but found out she was immortal, or something along those lines. It's all really sketchy, which is potentially good, seeing as we are displaying how thin a line they have to walk to make this plausible.

[damagegirl]

but its highly unlikely for them to make lelouch live, they would receive a ton of flak for doing it.

Chances are a new unknown character who was involved further in CC's past to surface or something like that. Just much more likely for them to continue the story without lelouch then create a way that lelouch lived and piss off thousands upon thousands of fans of the show.

Not really, you ever seen that movie the Living Daylights? It was a James Bond movie...well, there was this part where someone get shot or whatever but he was wearing a bulletproof vest and packets of blood strapped on top of the vest. So then when he got shot, it would appear like he was bleeding. The movie didn't take into account that such a person, having been shot, would be rushed away by ambulance, but I think the plausibility of the thing basically works for R3.

After Lelouch had been revealed to the Knights and they turned on him, he instantly came up with a plan to make himself the enemy of the world and have Suzaku take on the role of Zero. Okay, so what really happens is Suzaku pretends to stab Lelouch and punctures a some bags of blood that were somehow attached to Lelouch's body. As I recall, he had a rather thin frame and he was wearing his big robes of state when all this happened right? So no one would really notice a bulge here or there. Since it was planned out between Suzaku and Lelouch, we can imagine that Suzaku had intentionally pierced a specific area of Lelouch's body.

The premise of R3 should be mainly that Suzaku, as Zero, is not quite the defender of justice that everyone imagines. This comes about in a situation where Suzaku is backed into a corner and his Geass of "you must live" comes into play again. Without even showing Lelouch, this would be the first indicator that he's actually still alive. In the absence of any other ruler, Cornelia now rules Britannia. However, torn between the choice of relinquishing territory conquered by the previous rulers of Britannia and letting those peoples be free, she decides to keep them under Britannian rule because it would mean more economic prosperity for those countries. (ie, she's concerned about poverty.) Suzaku agrees with this policy and does nothing to prevent it; during this time, he acts as Zero, trying to reform Japan and give it back its national identity. However, Lelouch, still alive, sees Cornelia's decision not to free the conquered countries as something that his father, the Emperor, would have done. Thus, he returns to the stage, not as Zero, but as himself. Suzaku, knowing that Kallen and the other Knights would target him if he faces Lelouch directly, must stay behind the mask of Zero at all times. Thus, Lelouch must face off against the legend he created in Zero. Now Lelouch and C.C. are building their own force- let's call it the White Knights- to face off against the Black Knights and the Britannian Army together.

There are two primary revelations which drive R3 as I envision it: 1). Lelouch is alive; 2). The nations Lelouch wants freed decide to stay with Britannia after all.

Well anyways, that's one way they could do it I guess.

[mgz]

but its highly unlikely for them to make lelouch live, they would receive a ton of flak for doing it.

Chances are a new unknown character who was involved further in CC's past to surface or something like that. Just much more likely for them to continue the story without lelouch then create a way that lelouch lived and piss off thousands upon thousands of fans of the show.

Not really, you ever seen that movie the Living Daylights? It was a James Bond movie...well, there was this part where someone get shot or whatever but he was wearing a bulletproof vest and packets of blood strapped on top of the vest. So then when he got shot, it would appear like he was bleeding. The movie didn't take into account that such a person, having been shot, would be rushed away by ambulance, but I think the plausibility of the thing basically works for R3.

After Lelouch had been revealed to the Knights and they turned on him, he instantly came up with a plan to make himself the enemy of the world and have Suzaku take on the role of Zero. Okay, so what really happens is Suzaku pretends to stab Lelouch and punctures a some bags of blood that were somehow attached to Lelouch's body. As I recall, he had a rather thin frame and he was wearing his big robes of state when all this happened right? So no one would really notice a bulge here or there. Since it was planned out between Suzaku and Lelouch, we can imagine that Suzaku had intentionally pierced a specific area of Lelouch's body.

The premise of R3 should be mainly that Suzaku, as Zero, is not quite the defender of justice that everyone imagines. This comes about in a situation where Suzaku is backed into a corner and his Geass of "you must live" comes into play again. Without even showing Lelouch, this would be the first indicator that he's actually still alive. In the absence of any other ruler, Cornelia now rules Britannia. However, torn between the choice of relinquishing territory conquered by the previous rulers of Britannia and letting those peoples be free, she decides to keep them under Britannian rule because it would mean more economic prosperity for those countries. (ie, she's concerned about poverty.) Suzaku agrees with this policy and does nothing to prevent it; during this time, he acts as Zero, trying to reform Japan and give it back its national identity. However, Lelouch, still alive, sees Cornelia's decision not to free the conquered countries as something that his father, the Emperor, would have done. Thus, he returns to the stage, not as Zero, but as himself. Suzaku, knowing that Kallen and the other Knights would target him if he faces Lelouch directly, must stay behind the mask of Zero at all times. Thus, Lelouch must face off against the legend he created in Zero. Now Lelouch and C.C. are building their own force- let's call it the White Knights- to face off against the Black Knights and the Britannian Army together.

There are two primary revelations which drive R3 as I envision it: 1). Lelouch is alive; 2). The nations Lelouch wants freed decide to stay with Britannia after all.

Well anyways, that's one way they could do it I guess.

your comparing a james bond movie(the longest running movie franchise ever), from the 80s which is based around a secret agent more or less. And comparing it to code geass. Please rethink your logic as far as arguing meaningless points go. Simple fact is most the fans will be unsatisfied with how they bring lelouch back to life or dont let him die.
Because regardless of how they do it a large amount of people will have expected him simply to remain dead. OR it to be explained in a different manner then they did.
Not to mention a think a good amount of people would consider lelouch being immortal jumping the shark.

[damagegirl]

It's not comparing, it's called an example, yes?

Also, I don't know, but the logic of Lelouch making a plan in which he intentionally dies seems to stretch credibility to me. I think you have to give the character more credit than that.

You also said- twice- that the reason they wouldn't do that is because the fans wouldn't like it. Well, geez, since when did fans write anime series? 

"I don't personally like the idea, therefore no one should do it."

Not very sensible if you ask me.

[mgz]

It's not comparing, it's called an example, yes?

Also, I don't know, but the logic of Lelouch making a plan in which he intentionally dies seems to stretch credibility to me. I think you have to give the character more credit than that.

You also said- twice- that the reason they wouldn't do that is because the fans wouldn't like it. Well, geez, since when did fans write anime series? 

"I don't personally like the idea, therefore no one should do it."

Not very sensible if you ask me.

the point of the 3rd season and any future would be playing on the fact that is incredibly popular and sells dvds. If 3rd season isnt remotely enjoyable by the fans  or displeases to many of them it will bomb and they will loses money instead of milking the series properly.

[damagegirl]

I can see this is going nowhere...but I'll see if I can't explain to you what's wrong with your point of view.

You claim the point of any third season would be to sell DVDs and make money. Well, this obviously has to be the case, since no one makes an anime series expecting the run on a deficit. If that happened, the studios wouldn't be able to pay the animators and the anime series themselves would go under. Therefore, making money has to be a priority at some point.

I really don't think animators can go out with the intention of making every single series to please the fans. Because, when you come right down to it, fans all over the world are fickle. The most unsuccessful series seem to be the ones that are directed at the mainstream and follow generalized patterns. The most successful ones, from what I have noticed, seem to be the ones where the animator stays true to his own vision and makes the series, not out of a desire simply the milk the series as long as they can, but because they want to tell a good story.

Now I've just given you a good example of how R3 could logically work and still maintain the character relationships that have gone before the other two seasons. The only reasoning you've come up is "the fans won't like it." Well, do you happen to speak for every fan? Do you happen to know in advance how the series will be before they even make it? Are you able to see into the future, so that you can tell which decision will be good and which will not?

There are just far too many logical fallacies in your reasoning here.

[tyrionlannister]

In my experience, fans(at least English speaking ones) seem to be divided  quite equally on the issue: should Lelouch be left dead?

Also, you must consider the fact that there is ample precedent: most prominent - Jeremiah Gottwald aka Orange-kun was resurrected because SOME fans were vocal about it, Nunnaly was officially declared dead on their website, Marianne , Guilford, Suzaku etc.. In all of these cases, their deaths were thought to be permanent, even official in some cases, but were later reversed.

In many of these cases it really didn't seem that there could be a way for them to be still alive, yet their resurrections are hand waved and basically just not explained at all. It could be said that there are more fake deaths than real ones in Code Geass, at least regarding the speaking characters.

When you look at Lelouch's "death", you have to remember that this is the master of illusions throughout the show, who constantly played tricks on his enemies and allies alike, so a final trick would be perfectly appropriate, like for example DB with Naruto part 2 ep 92 in real life. 

This why I think that, if they manage to create a decent enough explanation for him being alive, or not as it happened in previous examples, and at least some fans want him to come back, they could definitely have an R3 with him coming back, perhaps after a coup d'etat happens and the the world begins to fight again, ala Gundam 00.

[altairian]

but its highly unlikely for them to make lelouch live, they would receive a ton of flak for doing it.

Chances are a new unknown character who was involved further in CC's past to surface or something like that. Just much more likely for them to continue the story without lelouch then create a way that lelouch lived and piss off thousands upon thousands of fans of the show.

Not really, you ever seen that movie the Living Daylights? It was a James Bond movie...well, there was this part where someone get shot or whatever but he was wearing a bulletproof vest and packets of blood strapped on top of the vest. So then when he got shot, it would appear like he was bleeding. The movie didn't take into account that such a person, having been shot, would be rushed away by ambulance, but I think the plausibility of the thing basically works for R3.

After Lelouch had been revealed to the Knights and they turned on him, he instantly came up with a plan to make himself the enemy of the world and have Suzaku take on the role of Zero. Okay, so what really happens is Suzaku pretends to stab Lelouch and punctures a some bags of blood that were somehow attached to Lelouch's body. As I recall, he had a rather thin frame and he was wearing his big robes of state when all this happened right? So no one would really notice a bulge here or there. Since it was planned out between Suzaku and Lelouch, we can imagine that Suzaku had intentionally pierced a specific area of Lelouch's body.

The premise of R3 should be mainly that Suzaku, as Zero, is not quite the defender of justice that everyone imagines. This comes about in a situation where Suzaku is backed into a corner and his Geass of "you must live" comes into play again. Without even showing Lelouch, this would be the first indicator that he's actually still alive. In the absence of any other ruler, Cornelia now rules Britannia. However, torn between the choice of relinquishing territory conquered by the previous rulers of Britannia and letting those peoples be free, she decides to keep them under Britannian rule because it would mean more economic prosperity for those countries. (ie, she's concerned about poverty.) Suzaku agrees with this policy and does nothing to prevent it; during this time, he acts as Zero, trying to reform Japan and give it back its national identity. However, Lelouch, still alive, sees Cornelia's decision not to free the conquered countries as something that his father, the Emperor, would have done. Thus, he returns to the stage, not as Zero, but as himself. Suzaku, knowing that Kallen and the other Knights would target him if he faces Lelouch directly, must stay behind the mask of Zero at all times. Thus, Lelouch must face off against the legend he created in Zero. Now Lelouch and C.C. are building their own force- let's call it the White Knights- to face off against the Black Knights and the Britannian Army together.

There are two primary revelations which drive R3 as I envision it: 1). Lelouch is alive; 2). The nations Lelouch wants freed decide to stay with Britannia after all.

Well anyways, that's one way they could do it I guess.

I have a problem with your theory, and that's that Lelouch came up with the "Zero Requiem" plan right after he was betrayed by the Order.  There was a lot he didn't know when he went after his father at that point, the biggest thing being that his mother wasn't actually dead.  I don't think he knew what his father's actual goal was either.  I think that the Zero Requiem plan was formed AFTER he had gotten rid of his parents, when he was alone with Suzaku and CC.  Whether he truly intended to die or if he knew he had taken his father's code or he just found a way to fake it are all up for debate.  Personally, considering Nunnaly was laying on his body crying, I'm having a hard time believing he was faking it     It's pretty hard to fake  your heart not beating, and you can only hold your breath for so long 

[Nikkoru]

In my experience, fans(at least English speaking ones) seem to be divided  quite equally on the issue: should Lelouch be left dead?

Also, you must consider the fact that there is ample precedent: most prominent - Jeremiah Gottwald aka Orange-kun was resurrected because SOME fans were vocal about it, Nunnaly was officially declared dead on their website, Marianne , Guilford, Suzaku etc.. In all of these cases, their deaths were thought to be permanent, even official in some cases, but were later reversed.

In many of these cases it really didn't seem that there could be a way for them to be still alive, yet their resurrections are hand waved and basically just not explained at all. It could be said that there are more fake deaths than real ones in Code Geass, at least regarding the speaking characters.

When you look at Lelouch's "death", you have to remember that this is the master of illusions throughout the show, who constantly played tricks on his enemies and allies alike, so a final trick would be perfectly appropriate, like for example DB with Naruto part 2 ep 92 in real life. 

This why I think that, if they manage to create a decent enough explanation for him being alive, or not as it happened in previous examples, and at least some fans want him to come back, they could definitely have an R3 with him coming back, perhaps after a coup d'etat happens and the the world begins to fight again, ala Gundam 00.

None of these arguments make sense, none of them - the story has reached a conclusion, in fact quite a superb one at that - there is no reason why Lelouch should live, his purpose in life had been achieved and his role in the story had ended. He concluded all the conflicts upon dying, both in a thematic sense and in the literal sense of the story. Whereas all the characters you mentioned still had a role to play in the conflict, and it was hardly surprising for them to have lived given the ambiguous manner in which they supposedly died. Being stabbed through the chest in the middle of a giant parade surrounded by people and watched by all is not an ambiguous death which leaves room for much speculation, that being kind of the whole damn point - just as I was convinced that Shirley died when she got shot and bled to death as Lelouch watched, or when Rolo died upon his final flight, for the brotherly love which was the only love he knew in life - I didn't think that they would bring them back as a zombies or some other empty premise because it suited my fandom, although all things being equal in fiction, it's certainly is possible.

If there is future conflict, it goes entirely against the sacrifices everyone, especially Lelouch, made for the peace which concluded R2, that  is why it is crass and emotionally vacuous.

[tyrionlannister]

I agree with you that the the ending is a powerful and fitting one. One thought I've had is it seems to be perhaps inspired by Christianity - Lelouch taking upon himself all the evil and the hatred of the world and then dying to dissolve them could be a parallel to Christ being crucified and dying in order to atone for humanity's sins.

What I meant to explain in my post is that that producers could choose to do an R3 with Lelouch, regardless of the adequate closure of the series, simply in order to cash in on DVDs, figures, CDs, artbooks etc. They've certainly released a lot of these things up to now, so they could be tempted to milk the cash cow as much and for as long as possible, even if it ruins the story.

[relic2279]

I agree with everyones statements. On both sides.

But as I said when the show ended in this thread, they left an opening for a revival of lelouch. I said money was king. Money will always be king. I'm confident in saying code will be back. However, I will not place any bets on whether lelouch will be back.

[Malific]

Okay.. I hate to just jump into the middle, but I AM NOT reading through nearly 1300 posts.

Why is it so hard to believe Lelouch didn't live? And why do the 'fans' want him dead? I sure as hell don't.

First) I can't see him making a plan that would end in his death if there wasn't a way to get the same result with him living. Which there is considering the Immortality bit. (Yes I know CC is still alive, I'm talking about his mother and father, Heck I can see Suzuka having a Geass of his own now. We missed the very end of that little encounter if you recall, anything could have happened.)

Second) I can't see him turning his back on his contract with CC, he still needs to kill her, and I'll be pissed if he doesn't.

Third) The very end Where CC's talking to Lelouch, He could very easily have actually been in back of the wagon, it's a clear set-up for the possibility of him being alive.

Fourth) He doesn't even have to be Immortal, Suzuka is certainly a skilled enough warrior to hit some one in the chest and make it look like a kill when it's not.

[Drextan]

Personally, considering Nunnaly was laying on his body crying, I'm having a hard time believing he was faking it     It's pretty hard to fake  your heart not beating, and you can only hold your breath for so long 

I don't think she was crying because he died, I think it was because she realised, that Lulu would go away with C.C. and leave her behind... She saw his memories when she touched him, because that happens when you have the code, just like with C.C, and then realised what he had done, and what he intended to do.... Because all she really wanted was to live with Lulu... So it made her really sad...

THAT'S just my theory... =)

[iindigo]

You know drex, that's an interesting point you bring up. I hadn't thought of it before, but the fact that Nunally saw all of Lelouch's memories when she touched him is pretty firm evidence that he had in fact received a code...