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Planetes
wolkec:
but she did recover :)
kagerato:
--- Quote from: JyL on June 03, 2008, 12:52:45 PM ---It's little moments like these that defy cliche and accepted liberal thought that make me smile at the series.
--- End quote ---
Accepted 'liberal' thought ? *[1] What the hell does this have to do with political thought ? You're apparently advocating for a strict utilitarian viewpoint, which has broad acceptance among people in very different political and social classes.
I find strict utilitarianism morally repugnant. Is a society that only considers the collective and never the individual really worth living in? What value does anything have if you don't prioritize the worth of individual persons?
Don't mistake me; deontological ethics has substantial weaknesses as well. I find it simplistic to think that any one principle, consideration, or philosophy can solve any moral dilemma. A broad consideration must be made for any issue of substantial complexity to reach a conclusion one could consider unambiguously correct.
[1] This is especially puzzling considering, on most issues, it has traditionally been progressives who took a firmly Utilitarian viewpoint. Poverty, gun control, mandatory public education, and the progressive tax system are all prime examples. Conservatives did or do fight each of these issues on Deontological grounds ("we have a right to bear arms", "a right to choose our education", "a right to keep what we earn", and so forth).
The stereotypical political issue in the US, abortion, breaks the mold a little. In that case, it is both utilitarian (fewer children helps reduce poverty and elevate the status of women) and deontological (women have a right to control their reproductive capacity). Conservatives have been arguing against abortion for a long time on pseudo-deontological grounds, claiming there is a "right to life". Well, persons have a right to live, sure. The problem is getting from a blastocyst or embryo to a person, especially once you start to think about the fact that there is no brain. I would hope that "pro-life" proponents don't actually believe every living thing, regardless of its capacities, has a right to have its life protected. No, they simply think that all human beings are magically endowed at conception with a "soul", the presence of which cannot be detected and the absence of which would not be noticed. In other words, a theological and vacuous argument.
Some issues are fought for on deontological grounds from both sides of the aisle in this country. I'm speaking especially of increasingly draconian copyright laws and child porn laws in particular ("you have a right to profit!", "think of the children ['s rights]"). The "debate" on these issues is so weak that I think it strongly showcases how conservative our supposedly "liberal" party can be much of the time.
In any case, if you read this far, thanks for indulging my little rant and have a nice day.
sunweb:
--- Quote from: kagerato on June 11, 2008, 09:29:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: JyL on June 03, 2008, 12:52:45 PM ---It's little moments like these that defy cliche and accepted liberal thought that make me smile at the series.
--- End quote ---
Accepted 'liberal' thought ? *[1] What the hell does this have to do with political thought ? You're apparently advocating for a strict utilitarian viewpoint, which has broad acceptance among people in very different political and social classes.
I find strict utilitarianism morally repugnant. Is a society that only considers the collective and never the individual really worth living in? What value does anything have if you don't prioritize the worth of individual persons?
Don't mistake me; deontological ethics has substantial weaknesses as well. I find it simplistic to think that any one principle, consideration, or philosophy can solve any moral dilemma. A broad consideration must be made for any issue of substantial complexity to reach a conclusion one could consider unambiguously correct.
[1] This is especially puzzling considering, on most issues, it has traditionally been progressives who took a firmly Utilitarian viewpoint. Poverty, gun control, mandatory public education, and the progressive tax system are all prime examples. Conservatives did or do fight each of these issues on Deontological grounds ("we have a right to bear arms", "a right to choose our education", "a right to keep what we earn", and so forth).
The stereotypical political issue in the US, abortion, breaks the mold a little. In that case, it is both utilitarian (fewer children helps reduce poverty and elevate the status of women) and deontological (women have a right to control their reproductive capacity). Conservatives have been arguing against abortion for a long time on pseudo-deontological grounds, claiming there is a "right to life". Well, persons have a right to live, sure. The problem is getting from a blastocyst or embryo to a person, especially once you start to think about the fact that there is no brain. I would hope that "pro-life" proponents don't actually believe every living thing, regardless of its capacities, has a right to have its life protected. No, they simply think that all human beings are magically endowed at conception with a "soul", the presence of which cannot be detected and the absence of which would not be noticed. In other words, a theological and vacuous argument.
Some issues are fought for on deontological grounds from both sides of the aisle in this country. I'm speaking especially of increasingly draconian copyright laws and child porn laws in particular ("you have a right to profit!", "think of the children ['s rights]"). The "debate" on these issues is so weak that I think it strongly showcases how conservative our supposedly "liberal" party can be much of the time.
In any case, if you read this far, thanks for indulging my little rant and have a nice day.
--- End quote ---
(I read it through, quite interesting to say the least, but why is this on Anime Discussions > Planetes?)
Quadlazer:
tl;dr
adion:
The post is actually full of own, he totally handed it to JyL. Probably the longest post on Box I've bothered to read.
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