The wonders of socialized medicine

[lx4]

Sweden prides itself on having among the best health care in the world. Its all publicly funded so its free or at least very inexpensive. Thats all good but the problem with everything that is run by the government is that you have to wait for it. Everyone knows about the 5 hour line to get in to the grocery store in communist countries.

The reason Im upset about it now is that my mother has to see a skin doctor for some pretty bad eczema around her nails. She would probably have to talk to the doctor for a few minutes and he could recommend some lotion or whatever, not a complicated thing. You would think she could get an appointment within a few days. Nah to see a skin doctor you have to wait 3 FUCKING MONTHS.

Im partly writing this because Im pissed but also partly as a warning to all the Americans on box. You will probably be hearing a lot about the
wonders socialized medicine during the upcoming election. I advice you to take it with a grain of salt.

[AceHigh]

It's bad (or at least slow) when you have some trivial sickness, however when a car hits you and your legs and your ribs are broken, you will be happy that you don't have to worry about payment.

So my question is, would you like Sweden to have private health care institutions which many people will not be able to afford?

Personally I feel that there should be both, free hospitals for everyone and private ones for the rich who don't want to wait.

[mgz]

i thought places like that you could still have private insurance which = ability to see doctors faster for specialists if needed

[lx4]

i thought places like that you could still have private insurance which = ability to see doctors faster for specialists if needed

I think there are some kind of private insurances now days that can be used for private heath care from companies that rent space at hospitals. But I have never heard of anyone with this type of insurance and never seen any sort of advertisement for it. If anyone actually has it it would probably be 0,0001% of the population.

I know that some countries like Poland has both fully private hospitals and public once. One of my friends who is a Polish immigrant always makes sure to go to the doctor with his family when he visits Poland and pay for it instead of using the Swedish health care system (which he is already paying for by taxes). These arent wealthy people btw, they just prefer private treatment and thinks their hard earned money is worth it.   

Both the American and the European system have huge problems. Im not sure if it would be possible or if it would be too expensive, I havent look in to it. But I would like to see private hospitals working on a free market like in America competing with each other only with the insurance being paid for with tax money.

[Semnae]

Alrighty, now let me tell you a little story about the alternative.  I'm a college student, and turned 25 last March.  In the US, you are dropped from your parents health coverage at age 25.  I'm several thousand dollars in college debt, and cannot hold a job because I am literally studying all the time.  When I turned 25, I was given a terrible choice.  I could either continue having health coverage, or continue my education.  Since I was only a year away from graduating, I chose the later.

Shortly after my birthday, I had a random occurrence of food poisoning.  I was vomiting with explosive diarrhea all night long, until finally it stopped the next day.  After that, I started having extreme heartburn whenever I ate something.  I had never experienced heartburn before.  To make matters worse, the few bouts of mild nausea I had dismissed as gas for the past year suddenly turned into severe problem.  I found myself completely unable to eat.

I started taking over-the-counter antacids and finally got the heartburn under control, but the nausea is still a problem.  I'm down to one meal a day, and losing weight fast.  My stools have become greenish black, and tarry in texture.  It's impossible to get clean with toilet paper any more, and have to take a shower every time I shit.

From what I've gathered on the internet, green means bile, and black means blood.  Either way, it's a really bad thing.  I could have gastritis, an ulcer, kidney stones,  or even stomach cancer, but I may die before I ever find out.  Unfortunately, since I'm uninsured, the only way any doctor is going to take a look at me is if my condition becomes medically unstable and I need to be hospitalized, and that's only to restabilize me and shove me back out the door.  If it's cancer, it could become inoperable by then, and since insurance companies could see my stomach problem as a "pre-existing condition", I may never be able to see a doctor about it.  N-E-V-E-R!  Suddenly, your three month wait doesn't seem so bad.

But I'm not done telling my story yet!  Lets go back a few years to when I needed my wisdom teeth pulled.  I was still on my parents insurance.  Let me repeat that for effect, I HAD INSURANCE!    Insurance would only pay a small portion for dental, unfortunately, any medical surgery in the US is very expensive.  As a child, I spent several years having to put up with painful wisdom teeth while my parents saved up to have them removed.  S-E-V-E-R-A-L Y-E-A-R-S!

My teeth ended up causing me so much pain, that I took matters into my own hands.  I took a sharp knife and cut the gum away around where the teeth kept emerging, so they wouldn't hurt any more.  I finally did get my wisdom teeth out, but not before I had to preform self-surgery, and not before my teeth were all crooked and in need of braces.  Obviously, to this day, I've never had braces.

Here in the United States, good health care is only for the extremely wealthy, which constitutes about 1% of the entire United States.  If you lived here, your mother could expect a wait ranging from years to eternity.  Smile and be glad that you only have to wait three months.  On top of the short wait time, your health care is free!  I would love to be in your shoes right about now!

In conclusion, I doubt you're going to get much sympathy since you live in Sweden.  While you're at it, you might as well cry out to the starving people of Africa that Swedish food tastes bad.  To those of us in the US, don't be afraid of "socialized medicine".  Our "socialized" police and fire departments seem to be working rather well.  Buzz words and scare tactics will only distract you from the real issue.  America needs you to vote for a president that will that will bring us universal health care.

[mgz]

i think your misunderstanding what i mean private health insurance basically you would get the same shit as  the governments stuff but you pay per month
and because you pay them, as such they like you and give you priority cuz they get charged more typically by hospitals and doctors(cuz they are private companies not the government, more likely then not the government has limits on pricing per procedure type and all that stuff)
 

[sunweb]

In Brazil we have the "SUS" (Universal Health System), obviously it doesn't work as well as it should, since the State is corrupted and it has been since it's creation in 1822. But you won't be indebted for the rest of your life if you have medical treatment, which is still alright.

Also, health insurance companies charge quite a bit, but they make life a whole lot easier, eg: my mother needed to have an exam that would usually cost US$1000 but the insurance covered 90% of that, besides, she had to wait only a week to get it scheduled in a private institution, instead of waiting months as it usually happens in the public system.



Semnae, I advise you go to Canada or Cuba to check that if possible, I'm almost sure that you could get treatment in those places.

[lx4]

Semnae, I advise you go to Canada or Cuba to check that if possible, I'm almost sure that you could get treatment in those places.

I believe he would still have to pay for it in any other country. Its only "free" because you have paid for it through taxes. You cant just go to a hospital in another country and expect free treatment unless your insurance covers health care outside of your own country.


Semnae clearly the American system has problems, I have never said it didnt. My point was that socialized medicine also has problems. When it comes to your wisdom teeth thats dental treatment and thats not covered by the government in any country that I know of. For kids it is free in some countries but not for adults. Here you have to pay for it yourself cash, there is no such thing as private dental insurance. The government will help pay for parts of it if it gets crazy expensive but not for something like having your wisdom teeth pulled.

[sunweb]

Not really, many people com to Brazil from multiple places to get AIDS medicine for free, since our health system is "universal".

[lx4]

Sure but dont they move to Brazil. You cant just take the car over the border and to gets some free treatment and pick up some free medicine and then go home.

[Sebur]

Hmm, it's usually only a few days wait when I order a doctor's appointment. Could it possibly be taking that long because it's a skin doctor you need?

Btw, I'm pretty sure you can get a private skin doctor, I think a few years ago my parents took my sister to one when she got
a weird skin disease from her Albanian friend >_>

[sunweb]

Sure but dont they move to Brazil. You cant just take the car over the border and to gets some free treatment and pick up some free medicine and then go home.

Lol, the majority of people that do that are Portuguese, they can't really drive a car to get here.

Canada and Cuba are easy-ish to get from the US, so I just assumed Semnae could do that if he wanted.

[bcr123]

In Canada you have to prove you're a citizen to get free care, if you have insurance (like a US citizen traveling in Canada) they will bill your insurance, if you don't have insurance they'll bill you directly.  In both the US and Canada hospitals are required to treat critical patients regardless of ability to pay.

[Proin Drakenzol]

Semnae is a whiny little bitch.

I'm going to have free medical coverage for the rest of my life.

serve your country --> get free coverage.

simple equation, no?

[mgz]

Hmm, it's usually only a few days wait when I order a doctor's appointment. Could it possibly be taking that long because it's a skin doctor you need?

Btw, I'm pretty sure you can get a private skin doctor, I think a few years ago my parents took my sister to one when she got
a weird skin disease from her Albanian friend >_>

yea i have amazing insurance atm thnx to the state of new jersey division of taxation(woo for benefits)

when i call my dr for normal appointment the only questions they ask is morning or afternoon appointment and then give me a time for the same day, for specialists its not long at all and is typically my own schedule that would make me wait(if it was important i wouldnt really have to wait much)

and its just 15 bucks to visit for copay for specialist or regular doctor(50bucks for emergency room visits)

[sdedalus83]

Semnae:

Every major city in the US has organizations which will pay for necessary dental care for children of low income families.  Blame your parents for your several year wait.  Hell, my dentist, no I don't have insurance, nor did I have assistance, would have put you on a $50 - 75 per month repayment plan, like I had when my six front teeth were splintered and needed reconstructive composite fillings.  A University dental school would be even more affordable.

Oh, and most public and many private Universities offer low cost insurance, and low cost care to their students, like the one I'll be transferring to this fall.  Even if it doesn't, part time employers like Fedex and UPS offer excellent medical coverage.  And yes, I work 40 hours a week and go to school full time.

The difference in the US is that the patient is responsible for doing the legwork to get assistance.

[Lucerin Red]

Yeah, also, pretty much ANY college student can get massively subsidized health care through their university. I work full time while in school, and my work pays half of my health insurance costs. The insurance is actually cheaper and better through my school. It's $800 a year and there's no co-pay due.

Even without that, My wife and I had to go to each visit the emergency room at difference hospitals before we had coverage. But after sitting down with each of the hospitals and showing that we were low income, they severely reduced our bill to something that was feasible for us to.



The health insurance figures are blown out of proportion when pushing for public health care. They say 55 million americans don't have healthcare, but that's not 55 million americans that can't afford health care, that's just the absolute total. Within that figure are americans who are either on a waiting period to get on insurance with their current employer or people who can afford healthcare but choose not to pay for it because they don't think they need it. Of those 55 million, only 10-15 can't afford health insurance. that's less then .5% of the US population. And no reason to bring about a National Healthcare system.

National Healthcare on a country with such a large and diverse population is dumb in the first place. The private insurance companies don't even run at a national level, they instead run state to state.

[sdedalus83]

The health insurance figures are blown out of proportion when pushing for public health care. They say 55 million americans don't have healthcare, but that's not 55 million americans that can't afford health care, that's just the absolute total. Within that figure are americans who are either on a waiting period to get on insurance with their current employer or people who can afford healthcare but choose not to pay for it because they don't think they need it. Of those 55 million, only 10-15 can't afford health insurance. that's less then .5% of the US population. And no reason to bring about a National Healthcare system.

National Healthcare on a country with such a large and diverse population is dumb in the first place. The private insurance companies don't even run at a national level, they instead run state to state.

15 million is 5% of the US population.

[Lucerin Red]

The health insurance figures are blown out of proportion when pushing for public health care. They say 55 million americans don't have healthcare, but that's not 55 million americans that can't afford health care, that's just the absolute total. Within that figure are americans who are either on a waiting period to get on insurance with their current employer or people who can afford healthcare but choose not to pay for it because they don't think they need it. Of those 55 million, only 10-15 can't afford health insurance. that's less then .5% of the US population. And no reason to bring about a National Healthcare system.

National Healthcare on a country with such a large and diverse population is dumb in the first place. The private insurance companies don't even run at a national level, they instead run state to state.

15 million is 5% of the US population.

that period is a typo, my bad.

[Semnae]

Yeah, also, pretty much ANY college student can get massively subsidized health care through their university.

I think I've seen this posted on the forum before, and it's as false now as it was then.  Only about 2 million of the 17.5 million students in the United States go to a university that provides health insurance.  That's about 11.5%.