Do video game cutscenes belong on Box?

[noodle7]

 First off I know this is going to stir up a hornet's nest with certain people... good.  This is what the forums are for; open discussion hopefully in a civilized manner without childish name-calling and juvenile aggression.

Looking at the current contents of Box we can find:
-Animated feature length movies
-Animated TV series (of all shapes and colors)
-Manga
-OVA's  (Original Video Animation)
-Artbooks (directly related to any/all of the above)
-Original Soundtracks or OST's (again directly related to above)
-A select few Video game cutscene torrents ( two to be exact)

As of this moment there is a third on the offers page: Devil May Cry 4 cutscenes.  imho there looked to be three main points of argument for/against the approval of the torrent:

1. The relevance of the cutscenes to existing anime formats in the franchise, ie. the manga and animated series
2. The question of precedent, and does it apply with the two cutscene torrents already up on Box
3. The choice of codec that the uploader has used in the creation of the torrent

Personally, I'm not interested in the torrent itself but I like the discussion that it has sparked, even the mods are in on it- albeit behind the scenes.  I'm not posting this as a soapbox for my opinion, I just think that the forum is really the only appropriate place to discuss an issue that seems to have exploded on the offers page.

So back to the question: Do you think that video game cutscenes belong on Box?
Please elaborate why, no one word answers!

[relic2279]

Box torrents is a place where you can get quality subbed anime at a speed that will blow your mind. It doesn't usually host licensed anime, unless the company is lax in their policy.

Game cut scenes do not fall under the definition of Anime as would Gears of War or Metal Gear cut scenes would not fall under a definition of American animation. Not sure why there is an argument about this.

I don't really have an opinion about this one way or the other however. Whatever gets more seeders makes me happy. I guess it's all based on the direction the Box admins want Box to take. Neither bothers me, though.

~R

[sayde]

Game cut scenes do not fall under the definition of Anime

Why not? Seriously, how many people have asked themselves this question?
If you ask around a site like animemusicvideos.or g, cut scenes in video games can definitely count as anime so long as the game in question was originally made and produced in Japan.

I posted this question under the comments section, but I suppose there's no harm in posting the question here as well.

What defines and makes something an anime? More specifically, why should video games that are created and produced in Japan be automatically exempt from the genre? Because if we think about what a video game literally is, it's nothing more than an interactive animation. Now there are many definitions for anime, but they all seem to more or less come down to essentially the same thing. Any form of Japanese animation can usually be regarded as an anime. I've yet to discover any definition from any source that clearly and explicitly limits this genre from video games -- much less the cutscenes within them.

In fact, I've encountered a couple definitions that clearly include them as another form of anime.

[Sakubo]

Cutscenes aren't the same as Anime. Anime tells a complete story. Cutscenes are used to help tell the story during a games progress. Honestly the reason the 2 torrents that are up now are allowed is because they have an anime series associatied with them. For this reason I could see something like Devil May Cry being allowed because it has an anime with it. But something like Gears of War that has no anime tie isnt. Its the same for soundtracks. They dont allow any and all game soundtracks. They allow a few that usually have anime tie-ins.

[lunarshadow]

i think that if people are gonna complain like they have been and say rude things about the mods should be banned in the first place.

2nd i honestly don't see why such a heated debate had to come out of allowing a torrent, that was just videogame cgi put together, in a movie form. either we all agree to pass it or not. and relevant to that many people have tried to upload cg and other types of clips on box and were denied after the introduction of the offer system. so thats that.

honestly at this point my solution would be this, since people seem so hyped that this is the best thing to happen to box, (as evidence by box) to allow the torrent to be passed, on the condition that the people arguing would be banned if a certain number of downloads didnt occur. and if it does, then nothing happens, life goes on.

and i also do not think its appropriate what certain members are doing. people are honestly voting their opinions about the torrent yet are being attacked, on a community driven anime download site. some of these people could be young kids that are crying right now because some big bully is harassing them. shame on you people!

[sayde]

Cutscenes aren't the same as Anime. Anime tells a complete story.

According to who's definition?  If one looks hard enough, they can find plenty of examples of japanese animated short clips, OVA's, or specials with literally no real plot or story to them, and yet they'd still be regarded as anime.

I think the main problem that comes to mind is that when the vast majority think of "anime" the first thing that comes to mind isn't anything 3-d related, but typical 2-d animation. If the characters within the questioned work do not conform to this broad but ideal style of animation, then it seems like many will not immediately associate for an anime.  For example, ask anyone here (or anyone who even knows what "anime" is) to watch the Ghost in the Shell psx cutscenes (which can be found right here on this site), and they'll most definitely tell you that it's anime simply because of what it looks like. The fact that the cutscenes don't tell a complete story, or the fact that it's originally from a video game most likely won't play a role in this decision. I'd even go one step further as to say if there existed no Ghost in the Shell animated series or manga, then the cutscenes within the video game would still be regarded as anime simply because of it's japanese origin and style of animation. (of course, whether or not they'd still be allowed on box under those circumstances is a different story.)

[tomoyo-chan]

lol, your saying game cutscenes are anime? go back to school and learn to tell the difference. also, game cutscenes from gears of war etc. are from american games, which are licensed, so no.

[lunarshadow]

lol, your saying game cutscenes are anime? go back to school and learn to tell the difference. also, game cutscenes are from games, which are licensed, so no.

thats another thing i thought of too, the game is still pretty popular and i seriously doubt that capcom would like to see the cutscenes for said hot game to be on a free site, it kinda gives the whole game away i suppose, causing game sales to slack probably a little bit, but its enough to be noticed by capcom. i believe its generally prices that they can sue for about $10,000 in damages per account that downloaded this cgi, give or take $5,000 here and there.

[noodle7]

Because if we think about what a video game literally is, it's nothing more than an interactive animation.

I see what you mean...and to that I would ask should anime-related games because of their interactive nature be considered a genre altogether separate from anime, which is a passive medium?  Right now that seems to be the case on Box since H-games (which I would throw into the anime family based on the art style and Japanese roots) are not permitted to grace/choke the server with their presence.

[sayde]

lol, your saying game cutscenes are anime? go back to school and learn to tell the difference. also, game cutscenes from gears of war etc. are from american games, which are licensed, so no.

No. I'm very careful to express that I believe cutscenes from Japanese video games can still be considered "anime". Seriously, go youtube the Ghost in the Shell psx cutscenes I referred to earlier and see if you can justify why those cutscenes shouldn't be considered "anime" without sounding ridiculous.

Also, this isn't something you can learn about in any school I've ever been to. Please, keep your insults to yourself. They're not neccessary.

I see what you mean...and to that I would ask should anime-related games because of their interactive nature be considered a genre altogether separate from anime, which is a passive medium?

That seems like a very viable and plausible alternative.

[ObrokenO]

Well can someone explain why is that xenosaga scenes were able to be uploaded? Isn't that a American game to? Maybe the difference is that the Xenosaga anime is actually based on game scenes Seems kinda complicated....Devi l May Cry games and the story line from the anime is completely separate and doesn't even match at all? Dante didn't even have full control of his devil powers at all I say reject the offer and drop this thread.

[sayde]

Well can someone explain why is that xenosaga scenes were able to be uploaded?

-This was quoted from psyren:
Those were uploaded before we had the Offers system, and some Uploaders were a little too liberal with what they uploaded.

-Also, all Xenosaga video games were made and developed in Japan.

Devil May Cry games and the story line from the anime is completely separate and doesn't even match at all?

Not really.

http://games.kikizo.com/features/dmc4_iv_p3.asp

The producer of the series also worked on the anime and has gone on record to state that the anime is canon material to the video games. He even informs us of when the anime takes place with regards to the video games.

Dante didn't even have full control of his devil powers at all I say reject the offer and drop this thread.

Not sure why that makes DMC cut scenes any less "anime".

[AnimeJanai]

If you are looking for the most authentic story, then one might say that the DMC game is more authentic than the anime as indicated by the publisher.  So, putting the DMC cutscenes down for non-authentic story is incorrect.  Similarly, putting down the DMC cutscenes for non-standard presentation brings to mind the webcomic Afghanis-tan which someone uploaded here. 

http://www.boxtorrents.com/torrent/140920/Oneshot_Afuganisu-Tan_(Afghanistan).html

Similar to DMC being a japanese creation, the afghanis-tan webcomic was created by a japanese author.  It somehow qualified as a "manga" when it was published in Japan.  Now, one could say it is a webcomic and not a manga, but there is nothing against length.  A one image comic currently qualifies as a manga and can be Offered to BoxTorrents if it gets officially published.

If you look at Afghanis-tan, you will find out that it has many of the same similarities to DMC cutscenes in terms of being available as a torrent.

As for the Xenosaga cutscenes as created by fan group Onegai Studios, the cutscenes were much of the source material for the official Xenosaga The Animation anime series.  So, there is no doubt that it is anime related.  As for canon, the anime series is subservient to the cutscenes as with DMC.  Also, the cutscenes present more of the rich storyline, have a more epic feel, uses movielike cinematography techniques (unlike the low=budget anime), and are also quite a bit longer than the anime series.  So, on both artistic merit and canon, the Xenosaga cutscenes are subtstantially higher than the anime.  And of course, it was made in japan by japanese artists and released by an official anime publisher too (Bandai Namco).   There is also a standalone Xenosaga cutscenes DVD (bright and sharp) which I have borrowed.  It is dual audio, and has subs available.  However, it lacks the loving treatment that Onegai Studios provided to bridge the gap between the plotholes in between some of the cutscenes.  To me, telling the complete story was what Onegai Studios did that makes their work qualify as a torrent here.   

[Malific]

However, it lacks the loving treatment that Onegai Studios provided to bridge the gap between the plotholes in between some of the cutscenes.  To me, telling the complete story was what Onegai Studios did that makes their work qualify as a torrent here.   

Hmm.. I wasn't aware of this (the extra editing to complete the story) I'll have to retract my opinion that the Xenosaga torrent should be pulled if that's true.

To everyone else, I believe the main question of this post is not for ALL Game cutscenes to be allowed on Box, but simply those ones who's games are related to, derived from, or the source material for existing/future animes and manga.

My reservation is that the cutscenes have to tell a the complete story in and of themselves, without the requirement of knowing the source material or their background. Which the DMC4 cutscenes do. All of you may want to stop into the DMC4 cutscenes offer and read up to see where the discussion has taken the rest of us so far.

http://www.boxtorrents.com/details.php?id=141664&page=0#comments

[Stsin]

Leeching the Xenosaga cutscenes now.  Last I looked, when the anime series was upped, it wasn't there.  I long gave up trying to get any seeds from Onegai's torrents.  Even read on ripping them myself, but Xenosaga is supposed to be a pain to do.

I'm glad it's up and think cutscenes related with anime should be allowed.  Someone also needs to do episode II and III (YT doesn't cut it)

[Proin Drakenzol]

Yes they should be.

I played a few games at TGS'08 today and I wasn't sure if I was watching an anime or playing a game (Arc Rise Fantasia, I'm looking at you)

[Malific]

The 'Tales of...' series of games is another good example of anime and games molding into one thing, having spawned multiple animes and the fact that their cutscenes are anime to begin with. Although I wouldn't recommend those cutscenes to be put on Box since they are so few and far between during the game and almost always contain next to nothing in regards to plot.

[noodle7]

To everyone else, I believe the main question of this post is not for ALL Game cutscenes to be allowed on Box, but simply those ones who's games are related to, derived from, or the source material for existing/future animes and manga.

Quite right Mal, otherwise we would have a very bloody battle on our hands as soon as someone tried to upload something revered but not anime related ala Metal Gear Solid.... You couldn't PAY me enough to deal with that mess.

To others coming from the offers page: this thread isn't centered on the DMC torrent that's in consideration either.  That is a decision that is entirely up to the Mods and no amount of ranting, logic, or pleading is going to change that. 
This topic is based on the question of wether or not Anime-related video game cutscenes belong here.  Simply saying that the cutscenes themselves are anime isn't good enough.  There is plenty out there that could called anime and won't be found here, such as Doujinshi, H-games (or their cutscenes), wallpapers, etc.... I don't think that coming up with a hard and fast definition of anime is requisite to discussing what should/is/will be available on Box.

imho it looks like the Mods had been using the Offers system to limit the content of Box to the list of items I mentioned in the first post, with the lone cutscene torrents being anomalous to the system before it was implemented as Psyren mentioned:

I know what you mean. However, those were uploaded before we had the Offers system, and some Uploaders were a little too liberal with what they uploaded.

Personally if I had to choose if cutscenes were to be made available I would probably say no, and limit the releases to the current standard of Film-TV-Book mediums and their accompanying OST's and OVA'a.

[Essedus]

Well, look. In the case of Xenosaga 95% of the game's story was in the cutscenes. I've played it, and It's a fact. The story NEVER advanced without a cutscene. Never ever. There are no characters that were not introduced in the cutscenes. Namco even made e DVD with all the cutscenes and sold it as a bonus to Xenosaga II. (it was of less quality then Onegai's version though). If other games can provide that much of their soty in the cutscens, then I say yes. If not, I say ney. DMC 4 does not provide all of the story in the cutscenes. I have played it, and it does not. So I say ney. Same thing for other games. Xenosaga II cutsecenes should NOT be accepted, if offered, because it does not even tell half of the story.

[marvinpow]

No. I'm very careful to express that I believe cutscenes from Japanese video games can still be considered "anime". Seriously, go youtube the Ghost in the Shell psx cutscenes I referred to earlier and see if you can justify why those cutscenes shouldn't be considered "anime" without sounding ridiculous.

Also, this isn't something you can learn about in any school I've ever been to. Please, keep your insults to yourself. They're not neccessary.

Hi sayde,

sorry, I have to ask. You considering the cutscenes as Anime. The argument, that an Anime needs a plot, your doupting, because there are several Animes or OVAs, which have no plots (your point  ). But for example, DMC4, there are 91 files. So my question is, if I would see them (I don't have played DMC4 yet) are they highly animated 91 Episodes with more or less loose connections? Is there any progress within the story including Climax (only regarding the cutscenes)?

Another Question. If you regarding some Animes, for example Ghibli, the creator have constructed a work, which has to be regarded as one completed picture. If we now regarding this games and therfore only the cutscenes, your only seeing pieces of the whole picture, is this reasonable? If you have the intention to play the game in the future yes, but else?

Marvin