Author Topic: Gaza showdown  (Read 26818 times)

Offline zherok

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #140 on: January 30, 2009, 11:54:58 PM »
Maybe I am wrong but didn't Moses say that the Jewish people were effectively banned from the Promised Land until the second coming of Christ? Also you would be surprised at how many Jews are not Zionists because of their belief that they are still a wandering people.
Wouldn't a detail like this probably have more to do with Christianity than Judaism? I doubt the Jews would be terribly concerned with the second coming of Christ...

Offline Proin Drakenzol

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #141 on: January 30, 2009, 11:55:17 PM »
I think both Jews and Arab Muslims should both just get the fuck out. Now this will never happen, but let's examine why that would make sense:

1) According to the Hebrew speaking Semite (now Ashkenazic/Sephardic blood line) tradition, they have not yet been allowed formal access back into Zion or the Promised Land on Earth. I am assuming the promised land is the motherland, known today as Israel.

Maybe I am wrong but didn't Moses say that the Jewish people were effectively banned from the Promised Land until the second coming of Christ? Also you would be surprised at how many Jews are not Zionists because of their belief that they are still a wandering people.

There are so many things wrong with that statement...

According to Jewish tradition Israel is ours and has always been ours. The last Diaspora was not one crafted by G-d to punish us for sins, it just sort of happened.

And the "second coming of Christ"? What is a "christ"? Certainly not a Jewish thing. And Moses was the one that brought us back to the Promised Land from Egypt. And that was before the First Temple was built! The only thing connected to the Messiah with Israel is that when he comes for the first (and only) time the Temple will be rebuilt and the Holy of Holies restored.

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2) Arab Muslims don't belong in Jerusalem. Now this is different for the Arab Christians. Jerusalem is clearly a vital city of importance for Christians and Jews. To my knowledge it has minor negligible significance for Muslims. You don't see Christians making communities and fusses in Mecca, well we expect the same sort of reverence and respect for our Holy city.

This is true...

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3) Load up the place with American ex-patriot Christians. Apparently since this is all about Power why don't we just stop the charade in making believe that we care about what happens to the Jews and just be honest with ourselves? We want the land to counter-balance Russian and Middle Eastern State's power. I mean personally I am interested in making a compromise to where Arab Muslims, Christians and Jews can live in the land in peace. But the national opinion considers that an impossibility. Just cut the bull and make the space a UN protectorate zone and call it a day. Put the Jews in New York (Hey we're over-populated but if it will prevent Nuclear War, we've got plenty of space...) and put the Arab-Muslims in Muslim theocratic nations.

Because that's a terrible and stupid idea. Israel is a sovereign nation. The UN is a giant cluster fuck, it can't even prevent terrorists from launching rockets from schools it owns.

And the other Arab nations hate the Palestinians, the only reason they keep them around is to be a thorn in Israel's side.

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Arab Christians and any other Christians can stay but Muslim and Jews have to get the fuck out. I feel like we are the big boy in the playground breaking up a fight between two shrimps. This is so fucking ridiculous I still can't believe we are about to have a Nuclear War over this shit.

Good thing you're not in a position of power. Why should the Christians get to stay? What's their historic and religious connection to Israel? Oh, right, they claim it vicariously through the Jews.

Go learn something before you spew crap from your mouth.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline lx4

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #142 on: January 30, 2009, 11:57:21 PM »
Mainly because they feel a bit squicky about calling a Palestinian territory what essentially amounts to "Jew Land" in ancient Roman.

If everyone has to call Peking Beijing and Bombay Mumbai now, they really should use the official name for Judea and Samaria as well. But yeah I understand that it creates some problems.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 12:01:25 AM by lx4 »

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Offline furuoshiki

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #143 on: January 31, 2009, 12:18:36 AM »
Proin Drakezol:

Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:

1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.

I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.

Unfortunately what you have to realize is that this is not my opinion that I am stating here this is what is going to happen if Israel doesn't get their shit in gear. What you don't realize is that our politicians are just like your politicians except more powerful and stupider and as seen with Bush, very hasty to act. What I stated will happen eventually if somebody does not concede. They will clear out the Jews and Arabs and put American [soldiers] there and make it a sanctioned zone. Either that or leave everyone as they are but the land will no longer be considered Israel but an International Military Zone. And trust me if this was McCain he would have already gotten you blown to kingdom come by ordering a hit out on both the leader of Hamas along with Mr. Goat Cheese Amenhijehad.

What Israelis don't seem to realize is they are not just putting themselves in danger of being completely obliterated by Iran, they are putting us in danger by showing improper conduct in War and making more enemies for us.

Aside from this...

Yes I know the UN is gay.

Yes I know technically the Jews are in the right.

However, none of this shit matters when it comes to Power. The USA is dying and our political representatives along with about 60% of the population are either still in a blissful state of ignorance or complete denial.

If the Jews continue to fuck around they will un-do any positive negotiations and/or progress we have made with Egypt and surrounding countries for years to come. Honestly it comes down to this. The Suez Canal or Israel? Which do you think America is going to give up if it ever came down to it?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 12:20:15 AM by furuoshiki »
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Offline Pigeon

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #144 on: January 31, 2009, 06:32:00 AM »
Proin Drakezol:

Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:

1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.

I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Hi. My name's Pigeon. (not really) I am an American citizen. I am an atheist. I don't give a fuck more or less about the Israeli nation than I do the Arab nation - I only care about the collective decisions of the Israeli and Palestinian people. I also agree wholeheartedly with Proin's foreign policy in regards to Israel.

Do I need to emigrade to Israel or murder somebody or is your ad hominem argument completely without merit?

Offline Proin Drakenzol

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #145 on: January 31, 2009, 07:19:03 AM »
Proin Drakezol:

Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:

1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.

I guess I am a "Zionist Jew." I'm also an active duty member of the US Navy. Both of my State's Senators, Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein, are Jewish.

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I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.

If you don't know what's going on how can you claim anything? The only reason it's still a "problem" is because the strong anti-semetic leanings of many European countries prevent Israel from taking direct action in the fashion of any other country in the world.

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Unfortunately what you have to realize is that this is not my opinion that I am stating here this is what is going to happen if Israel doesn't get their shit in gear. What you don't realize is that our politicians are just like your politicians except more powerful and stupider and as seen with Bush, very hasty to act. What I stated will happen eventually if somebody does not concede. They will clear out the Jews and Arabs and put American [soldiers] there and make it a sanctioned zone. Either that or leave everyone as they are but the land will no longer be considered Israel but an International Military Zone. And trust me if this was McCain he would have already gotten you blown to kingdom come by ordering a hit out on both the leader of Hamas along with Mr. Goat Cheese Amenhijehad.

You obviously don't know very much about US leanings either (or, let's be perfectly honest here, the strength of the Jewish lobby).

Also, my politicians are your politicians, so that was a completely nonsensical statement. What you stated will not happen ever, you're just stupid. And the US has Israel at "Most Favored Nation" status, the US watches out for Israel's interests. And if push came to shove the US would push Europe into line (don't argue with me about that Ace, we're still strong enough to make it happen through NATO and such).

So, no, I don't think I'll trust you since you've already admitted you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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What Israelis don't seem to realize is they are not just putting themselves in danger of being completely obliterated by Iran, they are putting us in danger by showing improper conduct in War and making more enemies for us.

Israel could, and has, spanked Iran's ass. They could do it again.

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Aside from this...

Yes I know the UN is gay.

Yes I know technically the Jews are in the right.

However, none of this shit matters when it comes to Power. The USA is dying and our political representatives along with about 60% of the population are either still in a blissful state of ignorance or complete denial.

The USA is hardly "dying." The world fell into recession when we did, the world is waiting with bated breath for us to fix ourselves so the world economy picks up. China doesn't want a position of leadership, they're more isolationist than we were after World War I. The EU can't even agree on what kind of drapes to get, let alone on major decisions affecting other countries. So who else to lead but the United States?

Sounds like you're just all doom, gloom, and no brain cells. 

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If the Jews continue to fuck around they will un-do any positive negotiations and/or progress we have made with Egypt and surrounding countries for years to come. Honestly it comes down to this. The Suez Canal or Israel? Which do you think America is going to give up if it ever came down to it?

Why would we have to give up either?

Do you know how strong our Navy is? I do. Do you know how strong Egypt's Navy is? We could beat them with a destroyer squadron.

And Egypt knows what side its bread is buttered on, our side. They rely far too strongly on Western aid, Western tourism and the West in general to dick around. And they hate the Palestinians, too, and kill them even more readily than Israel.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #146 on: January 31, 2009, 09:48:28 AM »
Proin Drakezol:

Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:

1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.

I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.
Hi. My name's Pigeon. (not really) I am an American citizen. I am an atheist. I don't give a fuck more or less about the Israeli nation than I do the Arab nation - I only care about the collective decisions of the Israeli and Palestinian people. I also agree wholeheartedly with Proin's foreign policy in regards to Israel.

Do I need to emigrade to Israel or murder somebody or is your ad hominem argument completely without merit?

Ha! Same story here, but I have explained on the last page why I support Israel. In the end it's all about self interest.

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The USA is hardly "dying." The world fell into recession when we did, the world is waiting with bated breath for us to fix ourselves so the world economy picks up. China doesn't want a position of leadership, they're more isolationist than we were after World War I. The EU can't even agree on what kind of drapes to get, let alone on major decisions affecting other countries. So who else to lead but the United States?

Why do we need someone to lead anyone? Isn't that against the principle of sovereign nations? Why can't the countries just lead themselves? And btw didn't you realise? We don't have a unipolar world, USA isn't leading more then a minority of the world. Especially after Europe said "fuck you" by creating EU.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 09:52:58 AM by Dragoon AceHigh »
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Proin Drakenzol

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »
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The USA is hardly "dying." The world fell into recession when we did, the world is waiting with bated breath for us to fix ourselves so the world economy picks up. China doesn't want a position of leadership, they're more isolationist than we were after World War I. The EU can't even agree on what kind of drapes to get, let alone on major decisions affecting other countries. So who else to lead but the United States?

Why do we need someone to lead anyone? Isn't that against the principle of sovereign nations? Why can't the countries just lead themselves? And btw didn't you realise? We don't have a unipolar world, USA isn't leading more then a minority of the world. Especially after Europe said "fuck you" by creating EU.


I don't know why countries can't lead themselves, they just never seem to be able to do it.

And as I already mentioned, the EU couldn't lead its way out of a paper bag. You yourself don't even like it, at least according to your posts.

And as much as you say the US doesn't lead, I still see so many countries looking to the US to solve the world financial crisis, solve problems in third world countries, provide disaster relief aid, etc.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2009, 12:26:55 PM »
I don't know why countries can't lead themselves, they just never seem to be able to do it.

I disagree. Just because a country doesn't nuke another doesn't mean they can't lead themselves. You see leading a nation is a bout taking care of the people in the country. Obviously you think it means meddling with the affairs of other countries.

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And as I already mentioned, the EU couldn't lead its way out of a paper bag. You yourself don't even like it, at least according to your posts.
I don't like it exactly because it tries to lead other sovereign nations and it's blackmail methods to gain members. If to think about EU as one country (which is not and never should be), then it's not doing a bad job. It consists of countries who have the best quality of life and who are role models of democracy and way of life in this world.

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And as much as you say the US doesn't lead, I still see so many countries looking to the US to solve the world financial crisis, solve problems in third world countries, provide disaster relief aid, etc.
US solving problems in third world countries fail in all ways except the military ones. Hell, do you know who is a prime contributor to the UN peacekeeping missions? Pakistan, direct quote from wiki:

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About 4.5% of the troops and civilian police deployed in UN peacekeeping missions come from the European Union and less than one percent from the United States (USA).

As I said it is not a unipolar world and we can forget the idea of leading anything but ourselves.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline lx4

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #149 on: January 31, 2009, 12:34:46 PM »

About 4.5% of the troops and civilian police deployed in UN peacekeeping missions come from the European Union and less than one percent from the United States (USA).

UN peacekeepers have to be seen as neutral so they traditionally come from neutral countries like Sweden or countries who cant be seen as being on one side or the other in the conflict. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 10:41:43 PM by lx4 »

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Offline SpeedKills

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #150 on: February 01, 2009, 12:56:26 AM »
Proin Drakezol:

Sir if you are an Israeli citizen or Zionist Jew please do the following:

1) Get the fuck off the internet and hop on the next plane to Israel, if you are already there then skip to step 2.
2) Kill your local political representative and replace him with someone that has common sense.

I don't claim to know exactly what in the hell is going on over there but evidently you guys are NOT handling your business.

Unfortunately what you have to realize is that this is not my opinion that I am stating here this is what is going to happen if Israel doesn't get their shit in gear. What you don't realize is that our politicians are just like your politicians except more powerful and stupider and as seen with Bush, very hasty to act. What I stated will happen eventually if somebody does not concede. They will clear out the Jews and Arabs and put American [soldiers] there and make it a sanctioned zone. Either that or leave everyone as they are but the land will no longer be considered Israel but an International Military Zone. And trust me if this was McCain he would have already gotten you blown to kingdom come by ordering a hit out on both the leader of Hamas along with Mr. Goat Cheese Amenhijehad.

What Israelis don't seem to realize is they are not just putting themselves in danger of being completely obliterated by Iran, they are putting us in danger by showing improper conduct in War and making more enemies for us.

Aside from this...

Yes I know the UN is gay.

Yes I know technically the Jews are in the right.

However, none of this shit matters when it comes to Power. The USA is dying and our political representatives along with about 60% of the population are either still in a blissful state of ignorance or complete denial.

If the Jews continue to fuck around they will un-do any positive negotiations and/or progress we have made with Egypt and surrounding countries for years to come. Honestly it comes down to this. The Suez Canal or Israel? Which do you think America is going to give up if it ever came down to it?

If the middle east was a nail, then you, sir, slammed that fucker on the head.


Whoever reaches his ideal transcends it eo ipso.

Offline lx4

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #151 on: February 01, 2009, 09:33:43 AM »
Two rockets hit southern Israel a while ago, they exploded between two nursery schools. Luckily no kids or grown ups were harmed. Having worked at a kindergarten this stuff gets to me. Attacks targeted at the most innocent and harmless members of a society.

Israels PM Olmert is saying that a disproportionate Israeli response will come at the time, the place and the manner that they choose.

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Offline AceHigh

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #152 on: February 01, 2009, 10:06:47 AM »
Some officials in Iran suggested that Iran might be willing to smuggle their long range missiles into the Gaza. Range of those will be able to reach Tel Aviv. However those missiles will have to be smuggled in pieces meaning that they need a large space for an assembly. Well, people in Gaza are resourceful, they will probably use some big building like a school or a hospital...
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline kuzgun

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #153 on: February 01, 2009, 03:23:46 PM »

However historically when we did not have enough defences and buffer zones against the spread of Islam it ended with loosing Europe's biggest city at the time, a jewel of a metropolis called Constantinople. Now it is called Istanbul and has a freaking crescent on rooftops. If I would have the power, I would obliterate the Turkey, push them back and retake what is ours.

rofl Istanbul was captured in 1453 so more than 550 years its in the hands of Turks with more than 10 million people living I guess it would be fantasy to call it ours

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #154 on: February 01, 2009, 04:56:44 PM »
And it was European for a thousand years before the Turks. It rightfully ours and I can't wait to see the Turks losing control over it. So what if there are millions of people in it? There were people when Turks occupied it. If they could do it, then we should be able to do it as well.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline kuzgun

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #155 on: February 01, 2009, 08:30:09 PM »
Its very sad to see people speaking about killing bombing from other side of the world that easily since I lived a period of time in Israel I can understand their concern a bit but the methods they use is a bit harsh because having a terrorist attack wont permit you use same methods on civilians... Still world should consider hamas as terrorist group since they use children as shield and at the same time kill children also... But destroying everything at the gaza wont solve the problem...

Its also very sad to see the Arabian countries being so silent over this matter what they truly want is money none of them cares about religion or humans there...

Also
And it was European for a thousand years before the Turks. It rightfully ours and I can't wait to see the Turks losing control over it. So what if there are millions of people in it? There were people when Turks occupied it. If they could do it, then we should be able to do it as well.
come on how old are you 7-8 ??? if you want to see the right to control over Anatolia read about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul).  Staying peacefully without knowing anything happening out there on Scandinavian countries ( I guess you are from there) would give you right to get rid of 10 million of people???

And about Gaza ( I don't want to leave the topic if someone wants to argue about freaking crescent on rooftops can pm me or open a topic) the main problem is to acknowledge each other Arabs living there do not acknowledge Israel as a country which is just meaningless... In my opinion some problems can be solved by letting the Jews live there and as for Israel opening the borders of Gaza so that people can live a better life ( As now they are living in a open air prison

 

Offline relic2279

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #156 on: February 01, 2009, 08:34:34 PM »
But destroying everything at the gaza wont solve the problem...

Technically, that actually is a solution, and would/could solve the problem. It's immoral, and would no way be approved by any country, even the pro-Israel US, but it is indeed a solution. Just not an acceptable one by any ethical country.

Offline lx4

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #157 on: February 01, 2009, 08:46:52 PM »
rofl Istanbul was captured in 1453 so more than 550 years its in the hands of Turks with more than 10 million people living I guess it would be fantasy to call it ours

Nebuchadrezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 586, thats 1423 years ago.

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Offline sdedalus83

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #158 on: February 01, 2009, 08:49:38 PM »
Technically, that actually is a solution, and would/could solve the problem. It's immoral, and would no way be approved by any country, even the pro-Israel US, but it is indeed a solution. Just not an acceptable one by any ethical country.

While I wouldn't call Egypt 'ethical', they fit that description more than most of the Middle East, and they'd love to see Gaza (as well as Israel and the West Bank) disappear.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Gaza showdown
« Reply #159 on: February 01, 2009, 09:03:05 PM »
come on how old are you 7-8 ??? if you want to see the right to control over Anatolia read about it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul).  Staying peacefully without knowing anything happening out there on Scandinavian countries ( I guess you are from there) would give you right to get rid of 10 million of people???

And about Gaza ( I don't want to leave the topic if someone wants to argue about freaking crescent on rooftops can pm me or open a topic) the main problem is to acknowledge each other Arabs living there do not acknowledge Israel as a country which is just meaningless... In my opinion some problems can be solved by letting the Jews live there and as for Israel opening the borders of Gaza so that people can live a better life ( As now they are living in a open air prison

God damn it I hate hippies...

When did I say to get rid of 10 million people? Just occupying it is enough to make it European in culture after one hundred years or so.

As for Gaza, their borders were open, they became closed for a reason, that reason is a Palestinian uprising in September 2000. Blockade is there for a reason, to keep Israel safe.

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While I wouldn't call Egypt 'ethical', they fit that description more than most of the Middle East, and they'd love to see Gaza (as well as Israel and the West Bank) disappear.
Many people would love to see that happen, none speaks of it because they are afraid of public opinion.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?