Discussion Forums > Politics
Gaza showdown
mgz:
your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war. And your comparing WW2 weapons and tech to todays tech, if you scaled what the germans did into modern technology they would be basically preemptively striking with nuclear warheads.
And its not global support that keeps israel alive, they purchase lots and lots of military supplies globally no country would want to lose them as a customer.
The arab countries point out the obvious fact yea they wont start a fucking war with israel because they would get their asses beat, but plenty of governments in the middle east support terrorist actions against israel or at the very least DONT condemn the actions which equates to support in my opinion.
AceHigh:
Just want to point out that it is not Israel who is not holding back. It is Hamas who deliberately hold civilian population as a human shield so that they can later take pics of the kids that they failed to keep out of harm's way in order to win a propaganda war.
Just look at many battle lines in WW2, usually the fortifications were made outside the town in order to protect the civilians (although towns still had military HQ and artillery). Still that was honourable soldiers were defending their civilians and settlements, not hiding in them in order to make attacker look bad.
Hamas is fucked up terrorist organization and the "innocent" civilians there who just happen to vote for Hamas a few years back are no better themselves. It is clear that none of them want peace.
Also don't forget that USA has a different mission in Iraq - winning the population over. Israelis primary mission should be forcing into submission. That is best done by short and intense warfare (aka Georgia war), it worked for Americans when they dropped nukes on Japan. Who knows, maybe obliterating Gaza city will make the rest of the strip to lose enough moral to just surrender and stop this bullshit.
Also you have to laugh of news like "blackouts in Gaza after bombing, Israel BAD" and then you just find out that whole Gaza is powered by israeli power plant in Ashkelon which is frequently targeted by Hamas rockets..... WTF???? It's about time Palestinians just accept that Israel came to stay and that if they want a good peaceful life, then they should make the strip under complete Israel control, become the citizens of Israel and live their lives in safety.
--- Quote ---your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war.
--- End quote ---
It sure is, we just haven't encountered a big war yet.
kyanwan:
--- Quote from: mgz on January 06, 2009, 08:32:55 PM ---your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war. And your comparing WW2 weapons and tech to todays tech, if you scaled what the germans did into modern technology they would be basically preemptively striking with nuclear warheads.
And its not global support that keeps israel alive, they purchase lots and lots of military supplies globally no country would want to lose them as a customer.
The arab countries point out the obvious fact yea they wont start a fucking war with israel because they would get their asses beat, but plenty of governments in the middle east support terrorist actions against israel or at the very least DONT condemn the actions which equates to support in my opinion.
--- End quote ---
you're talking out of both sides of your mouth bro.
On one side - they're killing 100:1. On the other side, they're dying all over the place.
But back to the obvious.
Are you blind? You just said Israel is surrounded by hostile countries. 350,000,000 hostile people - with plenty of guns, money, and oil. How the hell long do you think it would take them to completely overrrun Israel? Israel has about 3,000,000 combat-fit people. Most of them reserve soldiers. I'm talking - the Red Army mustered up millions - and overwhelmed an undersupplyed Nazi army. Israel's weakness is they can't carry out a protracted conflict. If the Arabs were to round up a massive army, attack - how long do you think Israel would hold? Even with massive casualties - 350,000,000 population - that's frickin huge. History doesn't' repeat itself? Hitler sure laughed his ass off at Napoleon's faux-pas of attacking Moscow. LOL - yeah, right - the all-ass-kicking Nazi army would lose to a bunch of Russian peasants with half-ass equipment. Yeah, right the 4th most powerful army in the world could POSSIBLY lose to a bunch of Bedouins with half-assed equipment. Shit happens.
And the allies of the potential enemy - Iran, Pakistan - they have weapons. (And Iran - they like to fight.)
If Israel broke its support - who comes to Israel's aid?
A United States with a smashed economy and overtaxed forces who have already been worn out and can't even control IRAQ?
Or European states whose antisemitism has been resparked by the brutality and inhumanity that Israel has been displaying?
Self destructive. They're tiptoeing on a fine-line. If they break the middle eastern iron-fisted monarch control of the populace, all hell might break loose. Acting they way they're doing right now - is dangerous. I'm saying we here, the US - should tell them whoa - hold up there buddy ... I think you killed enough people. Settle down before you break the camel's back.
We're not doing Israel any favors by being blind to what they're doing. If their support structure breaks - they're fucked.
--- Quote from: Dragoon AceHigh on January 06, 2009, 08:44:02 PM ---
--- Quote ---your talking wars of the past, its no longer acceptable to slaughter hundreds of thousands or millions in a war.
--- End quote ---
It sure is, we just haven't encountered a big war yet.
--- End quote ---
Damn straight. These pussy nerf wars as of late - they're nothing. Plenty of historians have been saying this - that peoples complaints of "casualties" - are unwarranted and idiotic.
There were barely any casualties in these recent "wars".
If you want to think of what a modern war would have as for casualties - picture the US and Russia going all-out.
That's what to expect if there is a next time.
relic2279:
--- Quote from: kyanwan on January 06, 2009, 09:00:29 PM ---Are you blind? You just said Israel is surrounded by hostile countries. 350,000,000 hostile people - with plenty of guns, money, and oil. How the hell long do you think it would take them to completely overrrun Israel?
--- End quote ---
They did try. the first time was in 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
and many times since.
The only thing stopping other countries from tearing Israel apart is the US. Iran is ITCHING to launch an attack, and that was a talking point amongst the presidential primaries. Iran has been funneling money, arms an support to the hamas for years. 3 million last year of it legally according to wiki.
--- Quote ---If the Arabs were to round up a massive army, attack - how long do you think Israel would hold?
And the allies of the potential enemy - Iran, Pakistan - they have weapons.
If Israel broke its support - who comes to Israel's aid?
We're not doing Israel any favors by being blind to what they're doing.
--- End quote ---
War by proxy. USA hates Iran et al, Iran hates Westerners.
It was done in the 90's, it was done in the 80's it will always be done.
mgz:
Um not sure if you realize how ineffective an army of millions upon millions is vs a much much much much better trained and equiped army nowadays.
Comparison of russians vs germans is fucking stupid, german technology was a little bit better then their enemies and they were fighting on 2 fronts most of europe on one front and the massive russian army after suffering massive losses from the winter in soviet russia. As the israelis dont have to worry about winter their FAR superior weaponry could devastate an army many times their own in size. And the US would jump on that fire because its a reason to have alot of their enemies taken out potentially with new leaders who might be willing to deal with the us.
Drafts work wonders, and help alot with unemployment. Send a few hundred thousand drafted men across an ocean and see how many jobs are available.
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