Author Topic: Gundam Discussion (Read 12017 times)

Raislin · « **on:** December 30, 2008, 01:32:59 PM »

I know there's probably been a lot of these. I just finished browsing through a somewhat recent/short one, but it didn't really do much to satisfy my curiosity.

I don't want this to turn into a Best Gundam, Worst Gundam thread, but probably more about why you like one more than another. It seems to me that there are generally two groups of Gundam, each with a strong fan base that vehemently opposes the other. It's not really clear cut to me which show belongs in which group. And I'm definitely not an expert on Gundam.

What got me thinking about this is Gundam Seed and Gundam Wing. I don't think I've seen anyone comment that they like both. It seems to always be one or the other. That goes for me, too. I really enjoyed the amazing character and plot dynamics of Seed. The music was incredible...every part of it. And it really dragged you into the emotions of the war.

However, I'm currently suffering through Gundam Wing. I only have a few more to watch, but from what I can tell, Gundam Seed is so strongly based on Wing that a part of me is hurt inside that Seed isn't as original as I'd have liked it to be. On the other hand, what Wing has in originality (compared to Seed), it is completely lacking in everything that I enjoy in an anime. The characters irritate me and generally remain static throughout the show in their role (either that, or they're wildly swinging from one extreme to another...Zechs, for example). What is particularly good is that there is a lot more fighting and battle in Wing than in Seed. And I like the original Gundams used in it (everything up until Wing was introduced).

It got me thinking that maybe it's because these shows are so opposite eachother that someone seems to love one while hating the other. But I don't know. I've seen the original MSG and a couple others like 08th Team and G Gundam and I thoroughly enjoyed all of those and I know they didn't all have the aspects of Seed that I loved so much. In fact, if I recall correctly, they had a heavy focus on combat like in Wing.

When it comes down to it, I think it's the characters that make or break it for me. Barring Shin and Flay, I loved every character in Seed and Seed Destiny, whereas the only character in Wing that I like is Duo.

Sorry for the extremely long post. I can get a little wordy, especially when I haven't slept in awhile.

Troak · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2008, 01:36:34 PM »

From my experience, I've also noticed that most people either like Wing or SEED, however, I like both a lot (and actually I like all of Gundam). Maybe that's because I'm not very picky when it comes to my anime, I usually get sick of hearing people complain about everything. It's their loss if they don't enjoy something though...so I'm just glad I'm easily entertained!

kureshii · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2008, 05:30:32 PM »

Gundam Wing is childhood anime for me, so naturally it's more "special" for me than SEED (I am aware of its flaws, but the anime you watched as a kid always has the advantage of nostalgia). And when you consider that it was made in 1995, when series with "good guys" and "bad guys" were the norm, the polarised personalities are a little more understandable. I mainly liked it for the mecha design though; each Gundam has a unique style that differentiates it from the rest. If you played a "Who's-that-Gundam" game with sillouhettes, the Wing Gundams are more prominent and easily identifiable than the SEED ones.

But to SEED's credit, it is politically more "realistic" and suffers less from plot armour, although I wouldn't really say I found its characters more likeable than those in Wing (while I liked Wing back then, at this moment I find both sets of characters distasteful).

I've never really thought about which I like better (Wing or SEED), since ~~Universal Century owns them both so hard~~ I like Universal Century so much I wouldn't even think to restrict myself to those 2 choices alone

Raislin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2008, 05:49:03 PM »

Quote from: Troak on December 30, 2008, 01:36:34 PM

From my experience, I've also noticed that most people either like Wing or SEED, however, I like both a lot (and actually I like all of Gundam). Maybe that's because I'm not very picky when it comes to my anime, I usually get sick of hearing people complain about everything. It's their loss if they don't enjoy something though...so I'm just glad I'm easily entertained!

I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining. Overall, I do have to say I liked the series more than I disliked it. I'm more interested in why people tend to go one way or the other on the various Gundam shows.

I practically watched the two for the first time back to back. My "childhood" Gundam shows were the original MSG and G Gundam and that annoying SD Gundam. I'm enjoying the end of Wing (only a couple episodes left) a lot and I loved the beginning.

Destiny aside, I can see why some people might not like some of the character in Seed (Personally, I couldn't stand Flay or the screwed up relationship Kira had with her). And the backstory and "doomsday" plan revolving around the masked guy was just lame, making the final fight between him and Kira pretty stupid. But for the most part, I liked the core characters. Unfortunately, I only consistently like one character while I flip flop on another.

I need to (re)watch some of the Universal Century Gundam series. They seem to be the only ones that every likes. Any particular reason for that?

xerojwo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2008, 05:56:12 PM »

yare yare...the OP first says how much he likes SEED then goes on to say something like "However, I'm currently suffering through Gundam Wing. "

At that point, I completely stop listening to what he has to say.

Real Gundam Fans know what I mean.

SEED is for "new-gen anime peoples" who "just dont get it and probably never will"

The ones who grew up watching Gundam, like me, understand the epic importance of an anime like Gundam Wing/Zeta/08thTeam, to the Gundam franchise as a whole. Those are like the Grand Masters of a martial art, and SEED is like a bad disciple mislead by society.

These "new-gen anime peoples" who are obsessed with "glossy" "flashy" animes are really starting to irk me. -.-;...

I'll give props to Gundam 00 for not falling into the darkness SEED did.

But I have a feeling there will never be a Gundam that is released again which even comes close to surpassing the original stuff.

I really don't want our main Gundam Discussion thread for the forums to have an OP that starts off saying SEED is so awesome. And then on top of that dare say its better than the old stuff. It's okay to say you like SEED, but never compare it to the originals.

Makes boxtorrents look bad, this topic does. haha

mgz · « **Reply #5 on:** December 30, 2008, 06:03:38 PM »

i enjoyed wing, i hated g gundam with a passion, and i couldnt stand alot of the older gundams when they were airing on tv i just hated everything about them probably had to do with the voice overs and some other stuff, but the older gundams seemed to move much slower, especially since i had gundam wing for comparison against at the time. Wing had quite a bit of action goin on the entire time. I tried to watch gundam seed and couldnt even finish the first episode and i havent watched gundam since.

Raislin · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2008, 11:17:07 AM »

Quote from: xerojwo on December 30, 2008, 05:56:12 PM

yare yare...the OP first says how much he likes SEED then goes on to say something like "However, I'm currently suffering through Gundam Wing. "

At that point, I completely stop listening to what he has to say.

Real Gundam Fans know what I mean.

SEED is for "new-gen anime peoples" who "just dont get it and probably never will"

The ones who grew up watching Gundam, like me, understand the epic importance of an anime like Gundam Wing/Zeta/08thTeam, to the Gundam franchise as a whole. Those are like the Grand Masters of a martial art, and SEED is like a bad disciple mislead by society.

These "new-gen anime peoples" who are obsessed with "glossy" "flashy" animes are really starting to irk me. -.-;...

I'll give props to Gundam 00 for not falling into the darkness SEED did.

But I have a feeling there will never be a Gundam that is released again which even comes close to surpassing the original stuff.

I really don't want our main Gundam Discussion thread for the forums to have an OP that starts off saying SEED is so awesome. And then on top of that dare say its better than the old stuff. It's okay to say you like SEED, but never compare it to the originals.

Makes boxtorrents look bad, this topic does. haha

lol. If you'd read more, you'd know that Gundam Wing is the only one of the the "original" Gundams that I didn't like so much. And it's probably a fluke that I like Seed so much. I don't care as much for the glossy whatever and I didn't even bring that part up. Beautiful animation can never be completely overlooked, but great characters and a great story are where it's really at.

Seed is also the only of the "new-gen" Gundams I've watched. The only reason Seed and Wing come up so much in my part of the conversation is simply because I watched them most recently. Anyway, I'm done defending myself. Attacking/Defending people doesn't really give much to the conversation. I've heard the "old stuff" is better than the "new-gen" argument plenty of times. The reason I started this is because I want to know why people seem to be so polar on the matter (other than the quality of animation...that's a moot point).

Quote from: mgz on December 30, 2008, 06:03:38 PM

i enjoyed wing, i hated g gundam with a passion, and i couldnt stand alot of the older gundams when they were airing on tv i just hated everything about them probably had to do with the voice overs and some other stuff, but the older gundams seemed to move much slower, especially since i had gundam wing for comparison against at the time. Wing had quite a bit of action goin on the entire time. I tried to watch gundam seed and couldnt even finish the first episode and i havent watched gundam since.

I loved G Gundam...for the simple fact that it was so ridiculous. It almost seems like a Gundam parody to me. Their concept on how to control the Gundams is also pretty nifty, but the rest was silly enough for my friends and me to laugh at (and still do years later).

"Wing had quite a bit of action goin on the entire time. I tried to watch gundam seed and couldnt even finish the first episode and i havent watched gundam since."

That's the part of Wing that I felt would attract some fans while pushing them away from the comparatively lack of action in Seed. And I do have to agree that the first few episodes of Seed were boring. In fact, I didn't really enjoy it as much as I've been saying until the space part of it finished.

nstgc · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2009, 04:42:55 AM »

Wing is not among the original Gundam series.

Mazinger G · « **Reply #8 on:** January 01, 2009, 07:40:02 AM »

To me the only Gundam that matters is G-gundam, for shining finger is truth. I have yet to watch another Gundam series that didn't bore me to tears or have me yelling at my TV. I somehow watched all of Gundam Wing, at the end I realised I had retained absolutley none of what I had watched. I could not remember a single interesting thing that had happened. And when I watched 8th MS team I fell asleep same for war in the pocket, X and that other OAV. I just couldn't stay awake, and I tried.
Z's main character and gaping plot holes frustrated me to no end. But I do plan on finsihing it some day, but there's about a billion shows that get priority over it. So yeah G gundam, make another one, you could call it GG gundam and it would be awesome.

Raislin · « **Reply #9 on:** January 01, 2009, 12:16:02 PM »

Quote from: nstgc on January 01, 2009, 04:42:55 AM

Wing is not among the original Gundam series.

Didn't know that. Don't know much about the order of the Gundams. What I've recall seeing is all generally unrelated to each other so I just watch and enjoy (hopefully).

Saw some interesting opinions, but doesn't seem I'll get much else from this topic.

apo12 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 01, 2009, 03:53:16 PM »

Search Wikipedia for Gundam.The article is pretty good.

I am one of the new-gen Gundam fans but I plan on watching the older series as well.(Especially Zeta and 08).

nstgc · « **Reply #11 on:** January 01, 2009, 06:53:55 PM »

08th MS team isn't one of the originals either. Its in the UC universe, but its not completely accurate in respects to the actual orriginals. MSG, Zeta, ZZ, CCA, F91, V. It was argued several years ago that Turn A is also part of the UC universe and its written and directed by Tomino making it "original" in the minds of some.

relic2279 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 01, 2009, 06:59:27 PM »

I've never watched any Gundam except for 00. I'm currently watching the first season. I've been watching it for probably 4 months now.

I usually kick it on when I'm getting ready to lay down for the night. I have yet to finish a full episode in one sitting as I'm out cold before it finishes. I'm on episode 5 right now. That isn't to say it is bad, or uninteresting. Because it's not. It's just that it's pacing is probably a bit slow for me.

nstgc · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2009, 08:01:33 PM »

Thats unfortuante. Its a great show. Why not get the HD rips by Menclave?

relic2279 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2009, 08:17:07 PM »

I'm watching the conclave HD version now. The show has picked up a bit, so we'll see. I probably shouldn't be watching it at bedtime I guess. It doesn't have that, "holy shit I need the next episode now" feel to it like Code or some others had that would normally keep me from dozing off. Then again, I'm only on the 5th ep. But I do see potential. So I'll hold off on my opinion.

Though don't get me wrong, it isn't horrible by any stretch.

nstgc · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2009, 09:03:52 PM »

Heheh, yeah. I tend to watch anime as a means of concluding my day. I tend to not fall asleep if I don't. Helps clear the mind. A down side is, as you say, you tend to miss it. In my case I forget that I watched the episode entirely. I usually remember one thing which reminds me "hey didn't I see this". Doesn't matter though. If I watch it twice and enjoy it twice then thats even better.

Troak · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2009, 11:01:19 PM »

I'm more of a watch 20+ episodes in one day person... (at least during breaks)
I found Gundam 00 extremely interesting, and while it does seem a bit slow at first, it definitely picks up. I watched the entire first season, haven't watched any of the second yet though.

damagegirl · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2009, 12:05:11 AM »

I'm a huge fan of Zeta Gundam. It seems like, after that one, they sort of had nowhere else to go and they struggled for a while trying to make anything that was as good as Zeta. I guess ZZ Gundam, V Gundam and Gundam Wing are part of that. I was encouraged by the two Seed series, as they were actually quite a better than the other ones, but still not as good as Zeta was (at least to me).

Steve Basnof · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2009, 06:45:48 AM »

I liked Wing when I watched it way back on Toonami, but don't know if I'd still like it. I do still like Gundam 08th MS Team though. It's one I might actually buy sometime. I know I didn't like SEED at all. Other than that I don't have much interest in the Gundam Series.

I liked the first half of Gundam 00, but after I saw ep. 15-16 when

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kureshii · « **Reply #19 on:** January 02, 2009, 08:58:39 AM »

Quote from: nstgc on January 01, 2009, 06:53:55 PM

08th MS team isn't one of the originals either. Its in the UC universe, but its not completely accurate in respects to the actual orriginals. MSG, Zeta, ZZ, CCA, F91, V. It was argued several years ago that Turn A is also part of the UC universe and its written and directed by Tomino making it "original" in the minds of some.

To add on, 08th MS Team, 0083 Stardust Memory were series produced "out of continuity". Tomino initially directed the production of the main One-Year-War story (Gundam, Z Gundam, ZZ Gundam, CCA, F91) and stopped at that (though he later went on to do Victory Gundam as well). 08th MS Team and 0083, while based in the same storyverse, were not directed by Tomino. You might also notice that hardly any mention was made of Newtypes in those 2 series.

The later-produced stories mainly served to fill in gaps in major plotlines, instead of creating their own major plotlines. In the process they took a little liberty with some technical interpretations and specifications (for those more technically inclined, MAHQ is the go-to authority on such information. The Gundam isn't as detailed as Macross, but you can easily see that the Universal Century section is much more detailed than any of the other Gundam storyverses). For instance, you can easily find articles/discussions about how the Musai-class cruiser has different MS-carrying capacity in different series.

I liked this aspect of UC; it makes it much richer and more interactive when people with the relevant technical knowledge (there was an earlier thread where they were discussing the feasibility of the space colony designs) come together to discuss these things and try to improve them. The other storyverses simply can't compare to this depth of detail.

Turn-A, while directed by Tomino, occurs so far in the future that it isn't really UC anymore, even if it features adapted variants of some UC mobile suits.