Discussion Forums > Technology
Windows 7 and general bitching about OSes
costi:
--- Quote from: mgz on January 21, 2009, 04:02:29 PM ---games like ghost recon and rainbow six are fucking garbage now, i know i played one of the 2 5 or 6 years back, it was a slightly more tactical version of counterstrike, and more fun. I got bored with it though.
They gave me oneof hte newer ghost recons with something i bought for my pc, and rainbow six vegas with one of my processors ITS FUCKING GARBAGE.
The started making them to console because there was a large fanbase for them on PC, when they did that they simplified movements, removed some movements and made the games all around shittier because of what they did.
--- End quote ---
Too bad the "consolified" R6: vegas has more tactical options than the previous PC-only instalments... Only thefirst two R6 games were the good ones, with pre-mission planning (that was more important than the exacution itself), selecting equipment for each team member, etc.
Personally, I have the "games must be dumbed dowm for consoles" argument, mostly because the dumbing has nothing to do with consoles. The reason is simple: games are being targeted at a much broader audience, so they have to be simpler. Hardcore gamers are just a small group, not big enough to make big0budget titles only with them in mind. Casual gamers are where the money is, and they're the target market for 95% of the titles coming out right now. The fact that most games are released as multi-platform is just a by-product, aimed at maximizing sales.
--- Quote ---Most FPS games released on the consoles now-a-days are playable but nothing compares to the WASD days of counter-strike and unreal tournament where you actually have maneuverability which makes it that much harder to hit people and get hit, thus requiring much more hand-eye coordination than console gaming (especially when one hand moves you around and controls most of your actions while the other controls shooting, the direction you face, and aiming).
--- End quote ---
But it's the same on a console - one analog stick fr moving, the other for targeting. The general principle isthe same, but the difference is that a pad is just much, much slower that a keyboard+mouse combo.
--- Quote --- The graphics of the next-generation consoles aren't anywhere near where the PCs of today are at; neither is the processing power.
--- End quote ---
So? I was always under the impression that playability was more important than graphics (which most developers seem to forget as well).
--- Quote ---The world has come to a point where its "better" to model everything towards the general user and not the ones who will actually benefit from the use of a revolutionary OS like Vista Beta 1 was.
--- End quote ---
Money makes the world go round... See the thing about casuals above. Besides, there's always Linux ;)
--- Quote ---A completely new, much more modern layout and design. It would do away with silly things like convoluted path navigation (for example, currently going "up" from My Documents in Explorer will take you to My Computer instead of your user folder, which is the true parent directory of My Documents. What the hell?) and and would be generally more geared towards technically-adept users by taking a more *nix-style approach of things. This would be default on Professional and the newly-introduced Gamer editions.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I prefer it this way. How often do you need to access the "Users\USERNAME\" folder? I know I almost never do. So, the fact that Windows explorer skips these totally unused folders and sticks to the important ones is IMHO better. It'd be nice to have an option to chnge this, though, for the people who need it.
fohfoh:
I keep getting random BSODs if I push too many processing requirements with programs etc.
mgz:
--- Quote from: costi on January 25, 2009, 11:51:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: mgz on January 21, 2009, 04:02:29 PM ---games like ghost recon and rainbow six are fucking garbage now, i know i played one of the 2 5 or 6 years back, it was a slightly more tactical version of counterstrike, and more fun. I got bored with it though.
They gave me oneof hte newer ghost recons with something i bought for my pc, and rainbow six vegas with one of my processors ITS FUCKING GARBAGE.
The started making them to console because there was a large fanbase for them on PC, when they did that they simplified movements, removed some movements and made the games all around shittier because of what they did.
--- End quote ---
Too bad the "consolified" R6: vegas has more tactical options than the previous PC-only instalments... Only thefirst two R6 games were the good ones, with pre-mission planning (that was more important than the exacution itself), selecting equipment for each team member, etc.
Personally, I have the "games must be dumbed dowm for consoles" argument, mostly because the dumbing has nothing to do with consoles. The reason is simple: games are being targeted at a much broader audience, so they have to be simpler. Hardcore gamers are just a small group, not big enough to make big0budget titles only with them in mind. Casual gamers are where the money is, and they're the target market for 95% of the titles coming out right now. The fact that most games are released as multi-platform is just a by-product, aimed at maximizing sales.
--- Quote ---Most FPS games released on the consoles now-a-days are playable but nothing compares to the WASD days of counter-strike and unreal tournament where you actually have maneuverability which makes it that much harder to hit people and get hit, thus requiring much more hand-eye coordination than console gaming (especially when one hand moves you around and controls most of your actions while the other controls shooting, the direction you face, and aiming).
--- End quote ---
But it's the same on a console - one analog stick fr moving, the other for targeting. The general principle isthe same, but the difference is that a pad is just much, much slower that a keyboard+mouse combo.
--- Quote --- The graphics of the next-generation consoles aren't anywhere near where the PCs of today are at; neither is the processing power.
--- End quote ---
So? I was always under the impression that playability was more important than graphics (which most developers seem to forget as well).
--- Quote ---The world has come to a point where its "better" to model everything towards the general user and not the ones who will actually benefit from the use of a revolutionary OS like Vista Beta 1 was.
--- End quote ---
Money makes the world go round... See the thing about casuals above. Besides, there's always Linux ;)
--- Quote ---A completely new, much more modern layout and design. It would do away with silly things like convoluted path navigation (for example, currently going "up" from My Documents in Explorer will take you to My Computer instead of your user folder, which is the true parent directory of My Documents. What the hell?) and and would be generally more geared towards technically-adept users by taking a more *nix-style approach of things. This would be default on Professional and the newly-introduced Gamer editions.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I prefer it this way. How often do you need to access the "Users\USERNAME\" folder? I know I almost never do. So, the fact that Windows explorer skips these totally unused folders and sticks to the important ones is IMHO better. It'd be nice to have an option to chnge this, though, for the people who need it.
--- End quote ---
define what you mean for a tactical option, i dont care about picking different guns, but abilities of a character to move and use different features ect ect. You have to toggle through some features in console games that you have seperate buttons for. Be it leaning, crouch, prone, sprint, stand, jump. Throwing flash grenade, smoke grenades stun grenades. Drop weapons, Pick up guns, melee. Attaching and detaching silencers and other add ons for guns.
All of that kind of shit, that is usually not available OR available in more limited capacity due to its lack of buttons.
Sakura588:
--- Quote ---Personally, I have the "games must be dumbed dowm for consoles" argument, mostly because the dumbing has nothing to do with consoles. The reason is simple: games are being targeted at a much broader audience, so they have to be simpler. Hardcore gamers are just a small group, not big enough to make big0budget titles only with them in mind. Casual gamers are where the money is, and they're the target market for 95% of the titles coming out right now. The fact that most games are released as multi-platform is just a by-product, aimed at maximizing sales.
--- End quote ---
But we are talking about the future of gaming, with the understanding that PCs and consoles will eventually become one and the same due the very issue you brought up: maximizing sales. If the prices of consoles jumps the way it did after the transition from Xbox to Xbox 360 and PS2 to PS3 (especially in this economy), and companies see that, for around the same price as their console, the user could purchase PC with better specs and processing power than said console, and that console, being a "next-generation" piece of technology, and therefore offering (or trying to offer) similar services as PCs, would you not think that the developers might not think "Hey, we can save money AND increase sales if we combine high-end PC power with console gaming". All they need to do is create a nice UPnP controller (gee, like the one's they already have now?) create a program/system partition that reads the next-gen games, and "Voila!", you have the console games you love, with the graphics that consoles rarely ever see (since most are "toned down" due to lack of graphics processing power), and, oh, you can also use all the services you would normally use your PC for. And, for those hardcore PC gamers that already have rigs that beat the mass-produced models, just download the software to play and you don't even need to purchase the new console-PC". Yeah, it takes away from part of their profit, but it also gets them into that share of the market of those PC gamers who would purchase and play console games if it was only ported to their PC.
--- Quote ---But it's the same on a console - one analog stick fr moving, the other for targeting. The general principle is the same, but the difference is that a pad is just much, much slower that a keyboard+mouse combo.
--- End quote ---
Hand-eye coordination is better when you can actually move at the same speed with which you react. This allows games to become much easier to play, and, in the terms of online multi-player games, allows for much more difficult matches.
--- Quote ---So? I was always under the impression that playability was more important than graphics (which most developers seem to forget as well).
--- End quote ---
What do 90% of the games today put out as their major sales-pitch besides being the sequel to popular series X, Y, or Z? It's graphics. Gameplay is what keeps gamers interested and enjoying the product, hopefully making a return-buyer out of them when a new game is created by "the company that brought you... [insert good game here]". Graphics are what entice the player to overlook the initial gameplay and purchase the game. As long as people purchase the game based on graphics and are mildly awestruck by them, there is a good chance they will buy another game by that company for the same reason (unless the gameplay is absolutely horrendous).
--- Quote ---Money makes the world go round... See the thing about casuals above. Besides, there's always Linux ;)
--- End quote ---
Indeed, money makes the world go round, but, if the market is saying "Your prices are rediculous for what we are (or aren't) getting" then the developers need to find a way to appeal to their would-be consumers, and the merging of console gaming with the convenience and graphics and processing power of a PC would do just that. Mass production of decent gaming rigs (right now) wouldn't cost much more than a PS3 when it first came out, especially since OS and hardware development companies will want to be the one's producing such units, therefore driving prices down due to the competition and the fact that they want to have their name on it.
ON TOPIC: I have a hybrid Win XP/Win Vista/Win 7 on my computer. Since it has all the good (and properly working features) of all the OS's, from what I have seen it looks very good. Now I just have to wait for them to finish the OS, release it, and then release their first SP after a month of two so it will be good to use :D.
AceHigh:
--- Quote from: costi on January 25, 2009, 11:51:28 AM ---Too bad the "consolified" R6: vegas has more tactical options than the previous PC-only instalments... Only the first two R6 games were the good ones, with pre-mission planning (that was more important than the exacution itself), selecting equipment for each team member, etc.
--- End quote ---
Ever played SWAT 4? I wonder how they could implement features on the console like opening small windows to see what your teammates sees and to give them orders based on what you see through his camera on his helmet and at the same time coordinate another element while you still do it quickly enough not to get shot yourself. I also wonder how easy would it be to replace the button range from F1 to F11 that are used to give orders in Operation Flashpoint?
Why don't we look at Oblivion compared with Morrowind in terms of interface? Oblivion interface is clearly dumbed down for the console, not casual gamer.
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