Author Topic: Windows 7 and general bitching about OSes  (Read 102137 times)

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 10:00:30 PM »
You may not care, but many do. When you stare at a computer screen for hours and hours each day, it's nice for the interface to not make your eyes bleed.

You mean look at it for 2 minutes before you start an actual program that you need to use... which is usually full screen.



What a hell do I see there? Windows Basic theme? Classic as well, oh I can change all colours to the ones I want. What else do you need anyway?

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P.S. the Windows skinning system is still really weak, even in Vista. Whenever a program locks up, all the flashy Aero makeup washes right off to reveal a badly-distorted Win2K window frame... Hopefully Windows 7 includes skinning at a core level instead of just being a cheap overlay.

Hopefully not, I am tired of the bloat. I want Windows Classic theme that doesn't hog resources.
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Offline nstgc

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 10:11:34 PM »
Or better, make it so you can have fancy effects and be able to use your system at the same time. I know I'm being hopelessly idealistic, but there aren't any good reasons why it can't be.

Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2009, 10:46:31 PM »
Or better, make it so you can have fancy effects and be able to use your system at the same time. I know I'm being hopelessly idealistic, but there aren't any good reasons why it can't be.

I agree. Linux with GNOME/KDE and OS X have been doing it for ages now, there's no reason Windows shouldn't be able to as well. Both aforementioned systems are quite snappy while also having a UI theme that actually looks like it was created sometime within the past couple years.

@Ace, the Windows Basic theme still has problems with it. Look at those massive borders, they eat up a ridiculous amount of screen real estate. A number of buttons sizes and such are off too, and the colors could be better. However, I'll agree that it's an improvement over full-blown Aero and is probably what I would use if I didn't have time to find a theme.

Also, I hate hate hate hate the "maximize every window" style of doing things, it's so frustrating and wasteful of screen space - honestly, what's the point of having a massive 24" or 30" display if a single window is gonna take up the entire screen. You might as well buy a 15" 1024x768 display.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 10:50:19 PM by iindigo »

Offline nstgc

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2009, 10:59:32 PM »
Also, I hate hate hate hate the "maximize every window" style of doing things, it's so frustrating and wasteful of screen space - honestly, what's the point of having a massive 24" or 30" display if a single window is gonna take up the entire screen. You might as well buy a 15" 1024x768 display.

What are you reffering to here? The maximize window button? I use those and I have a 20" 1680x1050 display. Very nice sometimes. Since getting this monitor about two years ago I have hardly found a need, but the need does sometimes pop up.

As for the resources, I didn't want to bring in Gnome KDE or what I'm currently using Xfce, but I may as well do so now. With Firefox running compositing (what Aero uses that fucks people over), transmission [edit]a bittorrent client[/edit], and everything else I'm using 350 MB of RAM. When I was using Gnome and Compiz, that was 450 MB. Search YouTube for "Compiz" or "Byrle" (which is oooooold) and then tell me that Aero is more demanding for good reason.

It is incomprehensible why Microsoft has such useless, clumsy, resource sapping interfaces. Its completely need less. If volunteers doing it for free can do it, why can't MS with its army of highly skilled software engineers?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 11:01:39 PM by nstgc »

Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2009, 11:07:06 PM »
What I was specifically referring is a workflow style that seems to be the most dominate in Windows users. Regardless of the application or what it does, they absolutely MUST maximize every window they come across. I find it unfriendly to multitasking and wasteful of screen space.

And yeah, Aero is set up pretty badly. If a forced, hacked OS X install can run half-crippled on a generic VGA driver with full UI effects enabled on a pitifully old 1.8Ghz P4 Dell without slowing down the system, you'd think Aero would have no trouble on the exact same machine, but that's certainly not the case.


Offline mgz

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2009, 11:31:06 PM »
What I was specifically referring is a workflow style that seems to be the most dominate in Windows users. Regardless of the application or what it does, they absolutely MUST maximize every window they come across. I find it unfriendly to multitasking and wasteful of screen space.

And yeah, Aero is set up pretty badly. If a forced, hacked OS X install can run half-crippled on a generic VGA driver with full UI effects enabled on a pitifully old 1.8Ghz P4 Dell without slowing down the system, you'd think Aero would have no trouble on the exact same machine, but that's certainly not the case.


meh i run many things full screen but other things not full screen im used to alt tabbing through my shit, and since i grabbed MINImize or w/e its pretty sweet having tiny little windows on my desktop to click

Offline geoffreak

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2009, 01:16:35 AM »
The thing that irritates me the most on Windows is the lack of Exposé. When I switched to Mac, this feature became a necessity for me as it is the only way I switch windows.
The day that Microsoft finally decides to use some of the great open-source tools available will be a great one. I did hear rumors that Internet Explorer will be using Webkit sometime in the near future, so that is a step forward.
I need to find the articles I read some time back about Windows replacements. Microsoft needs to start from scratch and fix up the flawed core of Windows. There is only so much you can add to software before it becomes bloated and unusable. Anyways, a few of these replacements are already fully functional (or at least more functional than Windows Vista, but then again, what isn't?) but remain inside Microsoft's R&D labs. These OSes are actually ridiculously far ahead of current OSes in terms of power, optimization, and ease of use. Sadly, the only problem is that most of these OSes aren't backwards compatible with any current software. I, for one, think that so long as Microsoft keeps the backwards-compatibility of software, there will be serious flaws in the operating system. What I believe might end up happening is that Microsoft might end up selling two different OSes, an upgraded Windows that will run all existing applications for the OS (I suppose in the same way that Vista claimed to have done so) and a "new" OS which would run many of the programming languages that Windows is familiar with, but require some rewriting in applications for them to work on it. This secondary OS wouldn't be released until after several years in development after an initial announcement to developers. No point in having an OS that can't do anything.
What slows Microsoft down is the fact that they have a huge userbase, and most of this userbase consists of people who don't like change. Most of the people who like change, have moved on to Mac and/or Linux as both systems can do much more than Windows can ever hope to do.
Microsoft is already waving red flags as the market share of Windows is beginning to drop exponentially. Their biggest clients are major corporations and these are beginning to drift toward Mac and Linux offerings. I can guarantee that Microsoft has already drastically changed their business strategy from just prior to Vista. Each Windows release has a chance of losing less customers than the last, but so long as they use the releasing system they do now, it is only a matter of time until Windows becomes a minority.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 01:32:06 AM »
Also, I hate hate hate hate the "maximize every window" style of doing things, it's so frustrating and wasteful of screen space - honestly, what's the point of having a massive 24" or 30" display if a single window is gonna take up the entire screen. You might as well buy a 15" 1024x768 display

When you watch a movie, play a videogame, use other programs.... you know the things that take at least 90% of your total time in front of computer.

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What I was specifically referring is a workflow style that seems to be the most dominate in Windows users. Regardless of the application or what it does, they absolutely MUST maximize every window they come across. I find it unfriendly to multitasking and wasteful of screen space

alt-tab to switch over extremely quickly. The last thing I want is to have tons of windows on top of each other making my desktop look like a bigger mess then my apartment after a drunken party. I really wonder if you can give me an example of you improved workflow by having windows placed randomly on the screen.

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The thing that irritates me the most on Windows is the lack of Exposé.
Of course more nonsense.... I find it amusing how people think of an OS only as a GUI. No nevermind the fact that windows has things like DirectX API, best program compatibility of all OS out there, excellent driver support (OSX does not count because it is made for one type of hardware), Linux is famous for failing at drivers.

So sure, be happy with GUI design, while I will be happy playing videogames instead of staring at OS theme, play around with Kompiz while I enjoy surfing with my wireless network card. I just can't express how much I hate these design worshipping artist wannabees.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline nstgc

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 01:46:11 AM »
I don't know about "failing", but I absolutely agree that commercial support for Linux is its biggest problem. DirectX is nice and I wish it could be emulated better, but even if it would, emulation/compatibility layers eat performance. :( makes me sad. Oh well, thats why I dual boot.

Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 02:11:15 AM »
When you watch a movie, play a videogame, use other programs.... you know the things that take at least 90% of your total time in front of computer.

The only two things that I use maximized/fullscreen are video players and games. Nothing else eats my entire screen. Even my browser windows take only take up about 65% of my screen width since full browser windows are pointless thanks to most of the web using fixed-width page designs.


alt-tab to switch over extremely quickly. The last thing I want is to have tons of windows on top of each other making my desktop look like a bigger mess then my apartment after a drunken party. I really wonder if you can give me an example of you improved workflow by having windows placed randomly on the screen.

Random/scattered windows have the added advantage of being able to concurrently display more information. It's handy to just have the window with whatever you need to know in the background peeking out as you work in the foreground window instead of alt-tabbing back and forth a million times.

It's also more conducive to drag and drop, which is very heavily and extensively supported under Mac OS in both Apple and third-party applications of all kinds.

And really, between an app switcher like the dock, alt-tab (works on OS X too, except it switches applications), and exposé, it's just as fast as the screen-eater method if not a little faster once you're accustomed to it.


Of course more nonsense.... I find it amusing how people think of an OS only as a GUI. No nevermind the fact that windows has things like DirectX API, best program compatibility of all OS out there, excellent driver support (OSX does not count because it is made for one type of hardware), Linux is famous for failing at drivers.

Only the UI is considered these days because honestly, all three OSes are equally capable at the base level. DirectX doesn't really hold anything over OpenGL; it's just more widely supported, and with WINE for both Linux and OS X becoming better each day, it's less and less of a selling point for Windows all the time. As for software... let's be honest, most applications that are useful to more than 5 people on the planet have a port or equivalent. OS X, as of 2005, had over 10,000 native applications for it and that number has risen significantly since then. As many as Windows? No, but do I give a damn? No, because all the apps I need are present. So really, unless the user has some mission-critical application that only runs on one OS that absolutely cannot be virtualized, it's only natural that they'd chose the OS whose interface and way of working fits him best.

So sure, be happy with GUI design, while I will be happy playing videogames instead of staring at OS theme, play around with Kompiz while I enjoy surfing with my wireless network card. I just can't express how much I hate these design worshipping artist wannabees.

Well that's nice and all, but if by some wonder of nature I become a heavy gamer (I'm anything but that now) I'll be playing most of those same games right alongside you in WINE or dual-booted Windows while I enjoy surfing wirelessly on my standard-with-all-Macs (as it should be) AirPort card. Don't go and act like hardware support is nonexistent on Macs; the only thing that will give you trouble are a few random outdated printers and standard unflashed PC graphics cards. Every other component, whether it's a hard drive, optical drive, audio card, networking card, whatever - will probably work fine on a Mac. Trust me when I say that we're really not missing out on anything.

Now while it's true Linux might have sketchy support in some areas, it's not something you can really blame it for. If you want it fixed, either get hardware companies to be more liberal in releasing specifications on their products so open-source drivers are developed or get them to release Linux drivers themselves.

And design worshippers? Please. Our views on operating systems just aren't so damn utilitarian. Yeah, computers are machines created with the sole purpose to do work for us, but nothing says we can't enjoy using them. There's also nothing that says we have to put up with with the fallacies and problems of any operating system simply because it's what's popular. I guess you could say it's really very similar to picking out a car on the lot; yeah, they'll all get you from point A to point B, but you'll probably enjoy the ride more if you pick a car that suits your tastes instead of just taking whatever model is currently populating the roads.



Offline nstgc

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2009, 03:18:27 AM »
If you aren't a gamer, so long as you use an nVidia card, you have no reason not to use Linux. If you are a gamer, you almost have to have either a console (video game...not *nix) or a copy of some Windows. Right now you can't really game without at least XP.

I myself am having to log in to play non-HD video. Just this morning I figured out how to get mplayer and its renderers to work with my damn Radeon 3200 (I sent in the 3780 because it had a short >.<), but I still have problems with non-HD videos. The problem is the picture is too small, but enlargement via "-vf scale" doesn't seem to go well with
"-vo gl:ati-hack:yuv=2:force-pbo" which is necessary for vsync. HD video can be run as is so the conflict never occures. Weird huh? Once my video card comes back I shouldn't have any problems.

Under normal circumstances the OpenGL render is much better then the VMR9 or Halli's but under extraordinary circumstances, like mine right now, this isn't true. The video quality is still better, but since it relies so heavily on the video card (or so it seems) with integrated graphics, I'm pretty much stuck. This is not a case of Windows triumphing over Linux, this is just a case of cases.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2009, 06:45:07 AM »
Umm.... I don't know what ports you're looking at, but I know at least that for accounting, OSX ports SUCK SHIT. There's also issues with these programs on vista, but no where as bad as OSX. They all work the best on XP. I shit you not.

Yes. All 3 OSes are the same on the basic level... which is why I choose linux over Mac. IF they share a same base, why the hell do I choose the more expensive one just for a slightly better look when I can mod that myself (litestep) in windows or (compiz) for linux. It's silly. People want to be lazy and pay so they don't have to do anything and have some look half decent. It's like paying someone to restring a guitar for you, or to fill up windshield wiper fluid in a car, etc.

I don't hate OSX, I just refuse to spend good money on a more expensive set up when I know what I'm doing for the most part when it comes to computers. I'd rather pay less, pirate or w/e and then have a decent looking laptop (Used to be HP, but now those ones kind of suck) a decent UI that I can mod, and a fist full of cash to buy.... some GREAT for real life. Idk... a nice cellphone instead of a shitty brick? A new game for a console or computer? Payment for paintball games etc. Macs are good for school. Decent battery life, "stable", basic work processing basic stuff... etc.

But if I want basic, it's called the asus eee pc.
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Offline AceHigh

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2009, 11:01:42 AM »
It's also more conducive to drag and drop, which is very heavily and extensively supported under Mac OS in both Apple and third-party applications of all kinds.

I see, you workflow is important when you are "working" shuffling files from one place to another.... you are unemployed, aren't you?

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Only the UI is considered these days because honestly, all three OSes are equally capable at the base level. DirectX doesn't really hold anything over OpenGL; it's just more widely supported, and with WINE for both Linux and OS X becoming better each day, it's less and less of a selling point for Windows all the time.

YOU told in the previous post that Windows had bad support for something as trivial as skins, yet you mention something like WINE? A program when you almost always need to use some hacks and fixes in order to make a program work?

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As for software... let's be honest, most applications that are useful to more than 5 people on the planet have a port or equivalent
That is bullshit and you know it (or should have) Just because you don't have anything serious to do with a computer doesn't mean eveybody is like that. For example I who have a job have already encountered that. Our AVR-JTAG rig is supported only on windows. We tried a free solution using Cygwin and some packages, but that was an experiment doomed to fail, so my company just bought a new Atmel JTAG rig and run it in windows 2000 (as if we would trust anything else at work...)

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Well that's nice and all, but if by some wonder of nature I become a heavy gamer (I'm anything but that now) I'll be playing most of those same games right alongside you in WINE or dual-booted Windows while I enjoy surfing wirelessly on my standard-with-all-Macs (as it should be) AirPort card. Don't go and act like hardware support is nonexistent on Macs; the only thing that will give you trouble are a few random outdated printers and standard unflashed PC graphics cards. Every other component, whether it's a hard drive, optical drive, audio card, networking card, whatever - will probably work fine on a Mac. Trust me when I say that we're really not missing out on anything.

My driver attack was against Linux, not Mac, I am aware that mac has no problems with drivers because of extremely limited hardware. What you are missing out on is the freedom of customization. You just have in you macs what Jobs decides is best for you. On other hand seriously, Linux and wireless cards hate each other.

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I guess you could say it's really very similar to picking out a car on the lot; yeah, they'll all get you from point A to point B, but you'll probably enjoy the ride more if you pick a car that suits your tastes instead of just taking whatever model is currently populating the roads.

No, it's more like I choose a car because it is practical and a popular means of transportation, while you buy a trike because of fancy design, rarity and it just happened to be of less practical use.

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Yes. All 3 OSes are the same on the basic level... which is why I choose linux over Mac. IF they share a same base, why the hell do I choose the more expensive one just for a slightly better look when I can mod that myself (litestep) in windows or (compiz) for linux. It's silly. People want to be lazy and pay so they don't have to do anything and have some look half decent. It's like paying someone to restring a guitar for you, or to fill up windshield wiper fluid in a car, etc.
True, but you must not forget that they are a species that do not make their own choices, just buy a finished rig never knowing what's inside there, because they completely trust that Apple can make a choice for them.
And although I don't think linux is near the same usability as windows, I still need to praise it for the servers.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 11:08:02 AM by Dragoon AceHigh »
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2009, 01:02:59 PM »
My driver attack was against Linux, not Mac, I am aware that mac has no problems with drivers because of extremely limited hardware. What you are missing out on is the freedom of customization. You just have in you macs what Jobs decides is best for you. On other hand seriously, Linux and wireless cards hate each other.

If we're going to talk about driver support at install, neither Windows nor OSX have anything on Linux, which, in most distros, has drivers for the vast majority of hardware compiled into the kernel or as modules.
And wireless card support has gotten dramatically better in the last couple of years.

Video card support still sucks, and quite a few printers lack drivers, but a lot of older hardware (stuff connecting via serial and parallel ports) will only work on Linux (or Win2k, which is worse than Linux with a lot of the newer hardware) as OSX and Vista have abandoned support for a lot of legacy stuff.

For the typical desktop user, Windows has better driver support since they'll never install an OS any hardware that doesn't plug into a USB slot.  Once you get out of the mainstream, Linux becomes a much more competitive option, and in some cases the only one.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2009, 01:30:19 PM »
Well, out of the mainstream especially at my work it seems that industry favours windows more then anything, and trust me they use anything but the USB.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2009, 02:13:11 PM »
I see, you workflow is important when you are "working" shuffling files from one place to another.... you are unemployed, aren't you?

It's not just files. You can drag and drop just about anything, including selected text, graphics, audio clips, and more. For example, when I need to use an image off the web in one of my Photoshop compositions in some way, I can just drag the image straight from the page onto the PS icon or directly into one of the PS document windows. It gets the image from point A to point B and allows you to keep your current clipboard contents without saving a file anywhere as an inbetween. I also use it to save little bits of important or interesting text out of web pages and emails on the desktop as text clippings, no need to open a text editor.

P.S. Yes, I'm currently unemployed, but I haven't always been that way. Three or four years ago, I worked as a software UI and general graphics designer for a company in Texas, which paid pretty decently.


YOU told in the previous post that Windows had bad support for something as trivial as skins, yet you mention something like WINE? A program when you almost always need to use some hacks and fixes in order to make a program work?

In my experience, WINE only has trouble with lazily-programmed applications. I've had plenty of things run just as well as they do in Windows under WINE. For things that run badly or not at all, there's always virtualization and dual-booting.


That is bullshit and you know it (or should have) Just because you don't have anything serious to do with a computer doesn't mean eveybody is like that. For example I who have a job have already encountered that. Our AVR-JTAG rig is supported only on windows. We tried a free solution using Cygwin and some packages, but that was an experiment doomed to fail, so my company just bought a new Atmel JTAG rig and run it in windows 2000 (as if we would trust anything else at work...)

That is niche software and you know it. Testing circuitry isn't an everyday common job unless you happen to be working in an electronics plant (and the majority isn't). Neither Macs or Linux are terribly suitable for factory/assembly line anyway, which I have no trouble admitting.

I am speaking from a home user and to some extent, office user standpoint (though I am aware that a LOT of in-company corporate software is written in ASP and ActiveX, which limits Mac and Linux usability in a company). Anything that the general consumer, "pro" consumer, all-out geek, or those with more commonplace jobs are going to need is probably available in one form or another on all three platforms.


My driver attack was against Linux, not Mac, I am aware that mac has no problems with drivers because of extremely limited hardware. What you are missing out on is the freedom of customization. You just have in you macs what Jobs decides is best for you. On other hand seriously, Linux and wireless cards hate each other.

I'll continue on what I was saying earlier. Provided I had a Mac Pro tower, I could plug in just about any card, optical drive, hard drive, sound card, whatever and probably have a good or complete support for it. One example off the top of my head is Intel's professional high-grade gigabit ethernet cards - though their boxes say "Windows 2000/XP/Vista or Linux with kernel x.xxx or newer only", OS X comes with fully functional drivers for them right out of the box. We might not have quite the rainbow of choices to choose from, but the choices still aren't too bad and I don't really need the choice anyway since I'm not the type that runs out and buys a new graphics card every two weeks and spends the majority of his excess income on upgrades. Once I have a decent machine, I work it into the ground for years until it starts feeling lacking or I outgrow it, then I consider upgrading stuff.

If you're a customization freak, well I suppose that's a legitimate reason to go with Lin/Win. I'm not one of those people because generally Apple is good at picking components and I don't have the patience to go through tons of motherboards, cards, etc to find my "ideal build". I still plan to build a Linux rig some day, but when I do it'll probably be made of components highly recommended by others. Trial and error with PC components is not my thing.


No, it's more like I choose a car because it is practical and a popular means of transportation, while you buy a trike because of fancy design, rarity and it just happened to be of less practical use.

I wouldn't say OS X is a trike. It's a modern OS in all ways, with support for most standards and features a healthy selection of applications to choose from and use. Don't needlessly degrade something simply because you dislike it. Practicality also depends on who you are. For me and several other people I know (including some in real life) Macs have been more practical. For those who like customization down to the last transistor, Macs probably aren't practical, but is anybody forcing you to buy one? No? Alright then, what's the problem?


True, but you must not forget that they are a species that do not make their own choices, just buy a finished rig never knowing what's inside there, because they completely trust that Apple can make a choice for them.
And although I don't think linux is near the same usability as windows, I still need to praise it for the servers.

For your information, I'm quite aware of what components are make up my current Mac as well as the ones that make up any that I may prospectively purchase in the future. Not having to choose one's own hardware doesn't necessarily make one ignorant in the ways of component terms or what's good or bad. As stated before, I simply don't enjoy the performing the "try this piece, don't like it, send it back" cycle until I run into the component that I actually do like.

It's not like Apple is one the same level as Dell when it comes to component quality anyway (unless you buy a Mac mini, I will agree those are cheap as shit). They contract out Intel and nVidia to do their motherboards and Asus to create the cases and assemble the machines, all three of which are well-known and respected names in technology. Don't forget that they also choose to use high-quality S-PVA panels in their iMacs and S-IPS panels in their standalone displays instead of going with the flow and producing trashy, cheap TN panel displays like every other company under the blue moon.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 02:17:45 PM by iindigo »

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2009, 02:19:47 PM »
Well... its true that most people favor Windows, the ideology and mentality of Windows being better has been drilled into most youngsters' mind when they're still young, unless they are given exposure to Linux or Mac, they'll forever say that Windows is better even if they've never tried using another operating system.

Driver support? None is perfect. Plug and play? If I can run DX10 games directly out of windows generic graphic drivers instead of installing the graphic card driver, then I'm impressed.
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Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2009, 02:23:32 PM »
Well... its true that most people favor Windows, the ideology and mentality of Windows being better has been drilled into most youngsters' mind when they're still young, unless they are given exposure to Linux or Mac, they'll forever say that Windows is better even if they've never tried using another operating system.

Driver support? None is perfect. Plug and play? If I can run DX10 games directly out of windows generic graphic drivers instead of installing the graphic card driver, then I'm impressed.

Most of those said youngsters only know how to use Windows on a surface level, too; they have no idea about what's going on behind the scenes or about the inner workings of the OS, which makes it much more difficult for them to migrate to other OSes later on.

Whenever I see a teenage Linux user it makes me happy because that means he's broken out of his Windows shell and is technically adept enough to use something else.



Offline nstgc

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2009, 02:26:25 PM »
I was typing while iindigo was posting

I still say Windows has better driver support. By this I mean "more drivers are supported". Yes, with generic drivers Linux can run perfectly fine, but few drivers are made for Linux. Fortunately that doesn't matter much. The only software needed for interacting with your hardware, is the CPU and GPU software. As mentioned, nVidia and ATi both are behind Windows when it comes to Linux. However I do believe Linux CPU and mother board (chipset) support is better then Windows.

I wish people who put a bit of effort into making Linux a complete replacement for nearly all office work? Open office can replace some of what MS Office does, but its not enough. Companies could save a bunch of money if they didn't have to buy those MS licenses.

after that post

In Windows, there isn't much to look at past the surface. Its also made in a way that prevents the necessity.

Offline iindigo

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Re: Windows 7
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2009, 02:32:18 PM »
Quote
In Windows, there isn't much to look at past the surface. Its also made in a way that prevents the necessity.

That's true to some point, but some of the Windows UI conventions really keep people dumb. Perhaps the #1 thing is installers and how they put shortcuts on the desktop and start menu. Despite the message that appears that says otherwise when deleting the shortcut, an astounding number of Windows users think that simply trashing the desktop and/or start menu shortcuts removes the application from the computer.