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Windows 7 and general bitching about OSes

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mgz:

--- Quote from: iindigo on January 09, 2009, 11:07:06 PM ---What I was specifically referring is a workflow style that seems to be the most dominate in Windows users. Regardless of the application or what it does, they absolutely MUST maximize every window they come across. I find it unfriendly to multitasking and wasteful of screen space.

And yeah, Aero is set up pretty badly. If a forced, hacked OS X install can run half-crippled on a generic VGA driver with full UI effects enabled on a pitifully old 1.8Ghz P4 Dell without slowing down the system, you'd think Aero would have no trouble on the exact same machine, but that's certainly not the case.



--- End quote ---
meh i run many things full screen but other things not full screen im used to alt tabbing through my shit, and since i grabbed MINImize or w/e its pretty sweet having tiny little windows on my desktop to click

geoffreak:
The thing that irritates me the most on Windows is the lack of Exposé. When I switched to Mac, this feature became a necessity for me as it is the only way I switch windows.
The day that Microsoft finally decides to use some of the great open-source tools available will be a great one. I did hear rumors that Internet Explorer will be using Webkit sometime in the near future, so that is a step forward.
I need to find the articles I read some time back about Windows replacements. Microsoft needs to start from scratch and fix up the flawed core of Windows. There is only so much you can add to software before it becomes bloated and unusable. Anyways, a few of these replacements are already fully functional (or at least more functional than Windows Vista, but then again, what isn't?) but remain inside Microsoft's R&D labs. These OSes are actually ridiculously far ahead of current OSes in terms of power, optimization, and ease of use. Sadly, the only problem is that most of these OSes aren't backwards compatible with any current software. I, for one, think that so long as Microsoft keeps the backwards-compatibility of software, there will be serious flaws in the operating system. What I believe might end up happening is that Microsoft might end up selling two different OSes, an upgraded Windows that will run all existing applications for the OS (I suppose in the same way that Vista claimed to have done so) and a "new" OS which would run many of the programming languages that Windows is familiar with, but require some rewriting in applications for them to work on it. This secondary OS wouldn't be released until after several years in development after an initial announcement to developers. No point in having an OS that can't do anything.
What slows Microsoft down is the fact that they have a huge userbase, and most of this userbase consists of people who don't like change. Most of the people who like change, have moved on to Mac and/or Linux as both systems can do much more than Windows can ever hope to do.
Microsoft is already waving red flags as the market share of Windows is beginning to drop exponentially. Their biggest clients are major corporations and these are beginning to drift toward Mac and Linux offerings. I can guarantee that Microsoft has already drastically changed their business strategy from just prior to Vista. Each Windows release has a chance of losing less customers than the last, but so long as they use the releasing system they do now, it is only a matter of time until Windows becomes a minority.

AceHigh:

--- Quote from: iindigo on January 09, 2009, 10:46:31 PM ---Also, I hate hate hate hate the "maximize every window" style of doing things, it's so frustrating and wasteful of screen space - honestly, what's the point of having a massive 24" or 30" display if a single window is gonna take up the entire screen. You might as well buy a 15" 1024x768 display
--- End quote ---

When you watch a movie, play a videogame, use other programs.... you know the things that take at least 90% of your total time in front of computer.


--- Quote ---What I was specifically referring is a workflow style that seems to be the most dominate in Windows users. Regardless of the application or what it does, they absolutely MUST maximize every window they come across. I find it unfriendly to multitasking and wasteful of screen space
--- End quote ---

alt-tab to switch over extremely quickly. The last thing I want is to have tons of windows on top of each other making my desktop look like a bigger mess then my apartment after a drunken party. I really wonder if you can give me an example of you improved workflow by having windows placed randomly on the screen.


--- Quote ---The thing that irritates me the most on Windows is the lack of Exposé.
--- End quote ---
Of course more nonsense.... I find it amusing how people think of an OS only as a GUI. No nevermind the fact that windows has things like DirectX API, best program compatibility of all OS out there, excellent driver support (OSX does not count because it is made for one type of hardware), Linux is famous for failing at drivers.

So sure, be happy with GUI design, while I will be happy playing videogames instead of staring at OS theme, play around with Kompiz while I enjoy surfing with my wireless network card. I just can't express how much I hate these design worshipping artist wannabees.

nstgc:
I don't know about "failing", but I absolutely agree that commercial support for Linux is its biggest problem. DirectX is nice and I wish it could be emulated better, but even if it would, emulation/compatibility layers eat performance. :( makes me sad. Oh well, thats why I dual boot.

iindigo:

--- Quote from: Dragoon AceHigh on January 10, 2009, 01:32:06 AM ---When you watch a movie, play a videogame, use other programs.... you know the things that take at least 90% of your total time in front of computer.
--- End quote ---

The only two things that I use maximized/fullscreen are video players and games. Nothing else eats my entire screen. Even my browser windows take only take up about 65% of my screen width since full browser windows are pointless thanks to most of the web using fixed-width page designs.



--- Quote from: Dragoon AceHigh on January 10, 2009, 01:32:06 AM ---alt-tab to switch over extremely quickly. The last thing I want is to have tons of windows on top of each other making my desktop look like a bigger mess then my apartment after a drunken party. I really wonder if you can give me an example of you improved workflow by having windows placed randomly on the screen.
--- End quote ---

Random/scattered windows have the added advantage of being able to concurrently display more information. It's handy to just have the window with whatever you need to know in the background peeking out as you work in the foreground window instead of alt-tabbing back and forth a million times.

It's also more conducive to drag and drop, which is very heavily and extensively supported under Mac OS in both Apple and third-party applications of all kinds.

And really, between an app switcher like the dock, alt-tab (works on OS X too, except it switches applications), and exposé, it's just as fast as the screen-eater method if not a little faster once you're accustomed to it.



--- Quote from: Dragoon AceHigh on January 10, 2009, 01:32:06 AM ---Of course more nonsense.... I find it amusing how people think of an OS only as a GUI. No nevermind the fact that windows has things like DirectX API, best program compatibility of all OS out there, excellent driver support (OSX does not count because it is made for one type of hardware), Linux is famous for failing at drivers.
--- End quote ---

Only the UI is considered these days because honestly, all three OSes are equally capable at the base level. DirectX doesn't really hold anything over OpenGL; it's just more widely supported, and with WINE for both Linux and OS X becoming better each day, it's less and less of a selling point for Windows all the time. As for software... let's be honest, most applications that are useful to more than 5 people on the planet have a port or equivalent. OS X, as of 2005, had over 10,000 native applications for it and that number has risen significantly since then. As many as Windows? No, but do I give a damn? No, because all the apps I need are present. So really, unless the user has some mission-critical application that only runs on one OS that absolutely cannot be virtualized, it's only natural that they'd chose the OS whose interface and way of working fits him best.


--- Quote from: Dragoon AceHigh on January 10, 2009, 01:32:06 AM ---So sure, be happy with GUI design, while I will be happy playing videogames instead of staring at OS theme, play around with Kompiz while I enjoy surfing with my wireless network card. I just can't express how much I hate these design worshipping artist wannabees.
--- End quote ---

Well that's nice and all, but if by some wonder of nature I become a heavy gamer (I'm anything but that now) I'll be playing most of those same games right alongside you in WINE or dual-booted Windows while I enjoy surfing wirelessly on my standard-with-all-Macs (as it should be) AirPort card. Don't go and act like hardware support is nonexistent on Macs; the only thing that will give you trouble are a few random outdated printers and standard unflashed PC graphics cards. Every other component, whether it's a hard drive, optical drive, audio card, networking card, whatever - will probably work fine on a Mac. Trust me when I say that we're really not missing out on anything.

Now while it's true Linux might have sketchy support in some areas, it's not something you can really blame it for. If you want it fixed, either get hardware companies to be more liberal in releasing specifications on their products so open-source drivers are developed or get them to release Linux drivers themselves.

And design worshippers? Please. Our views on operating systems just aren't so damn utilitarian. Yeah, computers are machines created with the sole purpose to do work for us, but nothing says we can't enjoy using them. There's also nothing that says we have to put up with with the fallacies and problems of any operating system simply because it's what's popular. I guess you could say it's really very similar to picking out a car on the lot; yeah, they'll all get you from point A to point B, but you'll probably enjoy the ride more if you pick a car that suits your tastes instead of just taking whatever model is currently populating the roads.

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