Pirates on Trial

[queenmetroid]

It doesn't matter how many individual downloaders you sue, people are still going to be around to download. Since they overlooked this fact at first they are now trying step 2: take down the sites hosting and offering the torrents.

I just can't comprehend a solution to this problem. We are in a generation where it is dang near impossible to have an original idea without it already being copyrighted somewhere by someone. There are even people out there that think every time you draw an anime picture and post it online you should have to add sources to the original artists of the style of anime. I guess, on one hand I think it's only fair to the original creators of something to get credit, but on the other hand you can't do anything anymore without citing sources or giving credit or asking for copyright permissions. I don't really know where I was going with this. I just want to see people working on solutions to the problems rather than just taking sides.

Tell me about it. Writing a college paper is freaking ridiculous already. You have to submit it to an internet database so they can make sure you didn't "cheat". In 10 years you won't be able to write an "original" paper. The small percentage of the world who pirates and copies screws it up for the rest of us.

[fohfoh]

I thikn it's more along the lines of a paper that's 90% citations...

[Aneroph]

Tell me about it. Writing a college paper is freaking ridiculous already. You have to submit it to an internet database so they can make sure you didn't "cheat". In 10 years you won't be able to write an "original" paper. The small percentage of the world who pirates and copies screws it up for the rest of us.

Aren't you considered a pirate? Maybe you meant something other than what you said here, but I was not saying anything bad about pirates nor the people who are against pirates. When you stop and think about it, anime is played on television in Japan for free yet for us to see it in its original glory we have to buy it because we are foreign? Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. People are getting cheated and the licensing and copyright companies are being too strict. On the flip side, the pirates are also overstepping the boundaries of gaining a little bit of justification and the copyrighters/licensors are right in trying to protect works. On one hand you don't want people to steal your invention and just claim it as their own, but on the other hand maybe the copyrighting things are just too strict and no one can claim anything as their own anymore. There in lies my dilemma. No matter how much I try to think of solutions I just can't wrap my brain around it.

[mgz]

Tell me about it. Writing a college paper is freaking ridiculous already. You have to submit it to an internet database so they can make sure you didn't "cheat". In 10 years you won't be able to write an "original" paper. The small percentage of the world who pirates and copies screws it up for the rest of us.

Aren't you considered a pirate? Maybe you meant something other than what you said here, but I was not saying anything bad about pirates nor the people who are against pirates. When you stop and think about it, anime is played on television in Japan for free yet for us to see it in its original glory we have to buy it because we are foreign? Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. People are getting cheated and the licensing and copyright companies are being too strict. On the flip side, the pirates are also overstepping the boundaries of gaining a little bit of justification and the copyrighters/licensors are right in trying to protect works. On one hand you don't want people to steal your invention and just claim it as their own, but on the other hand maybe the copyrighting things are just too strict and no one can claim anything as their own anymore. There in lies my dilemma. No matter how much I try to think of solutions I just can't wrap my brain around it.

a majority of popular bands dont complain very openly, you look at bands like radiohead and NIN and shit that put out their stuff for free now.
Meanwhile record industry complains about poor sales when they put out the same garbage over and over again, movie sales have gone up in general not down.
And because lil wayne and nelly and 50 cent can sucker 1 million retards into buying their piece of shit albums in a week we all get the pissing and moaning of NOBODY WANTS TO PAY FOR YOUR OVERPRICED GARBAGE

[queenmetroid]

Tell me about it. Writing a college paper is freaking ridiculous already. You have to submit it to an internet database so they can make sure you didn't "cheat". In 10 years you won't be able to write an "original" paper. The small percentage of the world who pirates and copies screws it up for the rest of us.

Aren't you considered a pirate? Maybe you meant something other than what you said here, but I was not saying anything bad about pirates nor the people who are against pirates. When you stop and think about it, anime is played on television in Japan for free yet for us to see it in its original glory we have to buy it because we are foreign? Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. People are getting cheated and the licensing and copyright companies are being too strict. On the flip side, the pirates are also overstepping the boundaries of gaining a little bit of justification and the copyrighters/licensors are right in trying to protect works. On one hand you don't want people to steal your invention and just claim it as their own, but on the other hand maybe the copyrighting things are just too strict and no one can claim anything as their own anymore. There in lies my dilemma. No matter how much I try to think of solutions I just can't wrap my brain around it.

a majority of popular bands dont complain very openly, you look at bands like radiohead and NIN and shit that put out their stuff for free now.
Meanwhile record industry complains about poor sales when they put out the same garbage over and over again, movie sales have gone up in general not down.
And because lil wayne and nelly and 50 cent can sucker 1 million retards into buying their piece of shit albums in a week we all get the pissing and moaning of NOBODY WANTS TO PAY FOR YOUR OVERPRICED GARBAGE

@ aneroph
My point was that there is no solution. Yes, I'm a pirate. But my point was that because even though I write original papers, I get penalized for it, because some people would rather cheat, and so mine has to be checked, and then the 5% that "isn't original". Has to be re-written. It's the same thing with DRM. I get screwed when I buy a game, because some people pirate. People on both sides will always overreact and create solutions that benefit no-one. Yeah, copyright is a mess, and no one will fix it.

@mgz

I love NIN, and I buy his albums just because he hates the RIAA. And when movies are actually GOOD, like The Dark Knight, they make obscene amounts of money. The studios will complain about all the sales they "lost" from piracy, anyway, though.

[vuzedome]

If I recall right, it was the French that were complaining about this, especially Sarkozy, so as to say, who buys Fench music here? Anyone? Not me....
Noticed how English(as in the language, not Briton) movies and television series are selling good? Any of you know about good French movies or shows?
Its not that I'm blaming France or its people, I'm blaming stupid agents, movie producers, artist managers for shoving crap into their clients mind and using piracy as an excuse for unpopular feedbacks.

Sorry if I have offended anybody here, feel free to point out my mistakes.

[AceHigh]

French movies:

Taxi 1, 2 and 3 


Wait the Director of that was none other Luc Besson, he made movies like Leon (one of my favourites) and Nikita, but you would claim it as American because they are in English?

As for music, no genre that I would like, but probably someone that likes that shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_house

[mgz]

French movies:

Taxi 1, 2 and 3 


Wait the Director of that was none other Luc Besson, he made movies like Leon (one of my favourites) and Nikita, but you would claim it as American because they are in English?

As for music, no genre that I would like, but probably someone that likes that shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_house

Leon aka the professional with whats her face from v for vendetta

[vuzedome]

hmm.... interesting, maybe I should start watching some French movies. Seriously.

[queenmetroid]

hmm.... interesting, maybe I should start watching some French movies. Seriously.

Yeah, you can download them off the internet.

[Aneroph]

If I recall right, it was the French that were complaining about this, especially Sarkozy, so as to say, who buys Fench music here? Anyone? Not me....
Noticed how English(as in the language, not Briton) movies and television series are selling good? Any of you know about good French movies or shows?
Its not that I'm blaming France or its people, I'm blaming stupid agents, movie producers, artist managers for shoving crap into their clients mind and using piracy as an excuse for unpopular feedbacks.

Sorry if I have offended anybody here, feel free to point out my mistakes.

I think "The Dreamers" was French. Man that movie was messed up, but Eva Green was nude through 90% of it.

[forevr]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0402102/

That French muay thai movie is pretty good

There are plenty of other ones but I can't remember their names as I usually watch French movies on tv.

To get back on topic:
Two of my regular private trackers has closed down sadly and one of my back up trackers.

This kind of sucks.

[Stsin]

So a few French movies were named and one director.  I can think of a few others, but it's still a small fraction of wanted movies.  Many haven't even seen Nikita since it was subbed, but have seen that bastardized American version.

[AceHigh]

Oh, almost forgot probably the best French movie I have seen:

Indigènes
English title: Days of Glory

There was also a cool movie about some guys climbing the building, I think it was French.



Anyway the main point is that I think it exactly because the movies in english are most sold is the reason why governments are extra protective of the "minority" in the world of films. Think like this, when a movie in Norwegian is released and is aimed at a population of 4 and a half million, then piracy can really hurt the sale. On other hand when Hollywood releases something aimed at a global audience, then piracy can't hurt the revenue that much.

[toshirotaii]

@Dragoon AceHigh: Yamakasi, yeah. It was fun (the plot sucked, but the speed climbing was awesome...). Seeing that we seem to at least partiallyshare tastes in movies, I'll have to check out Indigènes.

Speaking from an European's point of view, the cultural might of the US movie industry is simply too much for anything more than singular, exceptional pieces to make it over there, and then perhaps only a few years after their original screening in the country where they were originally made. Another part of the problem is that Europe is fragmented to a high degree, the EU notwithstanding, which accounts for cultural quibbles and disregard of other countries' movies.

The aforementioned is only my own personal opinion, based purely on observations over the years, and I have nothing else to back it up with.

[SeventyX7]

Pirate Bay is going to win on appeal, there's no doubt.  You can't sue somebody for running a search engine of links to downloads of stuff that may or not be copyrighted.  If you could, Youtube and Google would get shut down pretty fast.

As for the industry's response to all this, they just need to develop a model to make this profitable.  What that model could be is beyond my expertise, but I'm sure it can and will be done.

Suing individuals just doesn't work, and why they do it is foolish.  Historically, it's been shown that the frequency of a crime is only affected by the certainty of getting caught and punished for it (which is next to zero for the pirating we're talking about here) and not affected AT ALL by the harshness of a punishment (which is pretty steep in this case).  Back in the old days when everything was punished with death, banishment, mutilation, and the like, crime was still much more frequent than it is today, because the offenders almost never got caught.

[Lupin]

If you could, Youtube and Google would get shut down pretty fast.

There's something wrong with your analogy. There's quite a big difference between Youtube and Piratebay: Youtube complies to takedown requests while Piratebay openly mocks these requests. They cannot be compared.

I do see your point in the statement, however. 

[Aneroph]

Pirate Bay is going to win on appeal, there's no doubt.  You can't sue somebody for running a search engine of links to downloads of stuff that may or not be copyrighted.  If you could, Youtube and Google would get shut down pretty fast.

As for the industry's response to all this, they just need to develop a model to make this profitable.  What that model could be is beyond my expertise, but I'm sure it can and will be done.

Suing individuals just doesn't work, and why they do it is foolish.  Historically, it's been shown that the frequency of a crime is only affected by the certainty of getting caught and punished for it (which is next to zero for the pirating we're talking about here) and not affected AT ALL by the harshness of a punishment (which is pretty steep in this case).  Back in the old days when everything was punished with death, banishment, mutilation, and the like, crime was still much more frequent than it is today, because the offenders almost never got caught.

The harder and more painful the punishments are, the harder people will try, and succeed, in not getting caught.

[mgz]

Pirate Bay is going to win on appeal, there's no doubt.  You can't sue somebody for running a search engine of links to downloads of stuff that may or not be copyrighted.  If you could, Youtube and Google would get shut down pretty fast.

As for the industry's response to all this, they just need to develop a model to make this profitable.  What that model could be is beyond my expertise, but I'm sure it can and will be done.

Suing individuals just doesn't work, and why they do it is foolish.  Historically, it's been shown that the frequency of a crime is only affected by the certainty of getting caught and punished for it (which is next to zero for the pirating we're talking about here) and not affected AT ALL by the harshness of a punishment (which is pretty steep in this case).  Back in the old days when everything was punished with death, banishment, mutilation, and the like, crime was still much more frequent than it is today, because the offenders almost never got caught.

by going after pirate bay they arent suing individuals, they are going after what they view as a source.
However the source is individuals not the sites like pirate bay, so no matter how many torrent sites they shut down. Other ones will just get bigger with the same exact people that are using pirate bay. Its wonderful how that works .


And as for the industry trying to fix the issue, its real simple. They either put out quality products(yay more american idol singer releases), and change their business model because the 10-20$ a cd model isnt working and wont work anymore. Its to easy for people to steal it illegally and never be caught, vs spending tens of thousands to build the same song library 85% of which you listen to less then once a month.

And for the movie industry start allowing simultaneous movie/dvd/pay per view release so that when transformers 2 comes out its dvd comes out same time or within a week, and is on payper view style thing in about the same time.

Home theater systems are cheap and nice enough now that MANY people have some sort of setup and it works out being nicer then going and spending 12 bucks a person or w/e at the theater

[vuzedome]

yes! cheaper audio cds is definitely what I want, but till then, I'm only paying for classics and oldies, as for new stuff, I rip my friends' audio cds  .