Apple releases new... everything

[iindigo]

Macs are idiot-proof. Plain and simple. If you aren't an avid computer user and want something straight out of the box that will work forever and never break down since all you do it type and check email on it, then you want a Mac. Macs are created mainly for general purpose work, and not much else. It's supposed to be your "personal" computer, something you use everyday but never stress all that much.Thus, the much greater price can be justified because you'll only need to replace it once every 5+ years.

Otherwise, Macs are used for high-end, specialized work, like video or audio editing. A $5000 G5 is not something you buy so you can use Itunes, you buy it so you can edit digital film. NO ONE in a professional industry uses those computers as their everyday machine unless they're filthy stinking rich.

Advanced types can use Macs as well. I should know, as I'm one of those people myself. I've been using Macs since 1996 and haven't had a shred of trouble.

Also, you're a bit out of date. Apple no longer uses PowerPC processors (so no G5) and their workstation line is now known as the Mac Pro. Its pricing starts at $2499 and doesn't hit $5000 unless you upgrade about everything on the machine quite a bit.

And before any Mac lovers come screaming out about how much safer Macs are or how PCs are full or viruses and Macs aren't, let remind you of a very simple point - People make viruses to get attention. If a new virus made all the PCs on the world go down, the world would be pretty fucked. If all the Macs died, well, no big loss outside the entertainment world, who would simply switch over to PCs running Vegas. Macs are not inherently better against viruses and spyware than PCs, virus makers simply don't care enough about them to bother making any viruses for them.

I normally don't cite the lack of Mac malware as a plus, but just imagine the media buzz that would be created by a malware writer creating a highly effective self-propagating virus for OS X. It'd receive more attention than most Windows-based viruses, considering how hundreds of those are created each month. There is more than enough incentive for a skilled malware writer to write a Mac virus.

[raylu]

*Sigh* This debate always seems to pop up in my life.

I've been using computers, both PC and Mac, since 1988. I began tinkering with them and building towers back in 1996. I have friends who are both Aero Engineers (high-end PC users) and Film makers (high-end Mac users) Also, my best friend is an Apple Genius.

In all that time, in all those places, knowing all these people, and having this argument God knows how many times, nothing has changed the fundamental uses for either machine, despite what their proponents want to think.

Macs are idiot-proof. Plain and simple. If you aren't an avid computer user and want something straight out of the box that will work forever and never break down since all you do it type and check email on it, then you want a Mac. Macs are created mainly for general purpose work, and not much else. It's supposed to be your "personal" computer, something you use everyday but never stress all that much.Thus, the much greater price can be justified because you'll only need to replace it once every 5+ years.

Otherwise, Macs are used for high-end, specialized work, like video or audio editing. A $5000 G5 is not something you buy so you can use Itunes, you buy it so you can edit digital film. NO ONE in a professional industry uses those computers as their everyday machine unless they're filthy stinking rich.

PCs are for people who actually know something about computers beyond turning them on and searching Google. They are not idiot-proof, and have a fairly harsh learning curve. What they offer, though, is much greater flexibility. I can make Windows sit up, beg, and roll over when I tell it to. However, I am an advanced user, and that is what I want. If you have a slightly higher than normal level of computer knowledge, maintaining a good PC is easy. Building your own computer (something else I enjoy) isn't possible with Mac, but it is with PC, further increasing my ability to customize what I want my computer to do.

And in terms of gaming, well, there's no comparison. Macs suck for any kind of high-end gaming. More importantly, a good PC can blow a console out of the water. My PC isn't even top end anymore, but it still runs Fallout 3 much better than my friend's PS3. Also, for any kind of programing or usage that requires both graphics and lots of computing power (like my friend the engineer running Solidworks), PC comes out on top.

That's it. Beyond those settings mentioned above, I have yet to see anything besides price and personal opinion influence someone's opinion of their system one way or the other. You can not definitively state that one is better than the other because they are built for different roles and different people. Some things one will do better, some things the other will. Get used to it.

And before any Mac lovers come screaming out about how much safer Macs are or how PCs are full or viruses and Macs aren't, let remind you of a very simple point - People make viruses to get attention. If a new virus made all the PCs on the world go down, the world would be pretty fucked. If all the Macs died, well, no big loss outside the entertainment world, who would simply switch over to PCs running Vegas. Macs are not inherently better against viruses and spyware than PCs, virus makers simply don't care enough about them to bother making any viruses for them.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

http://trunks.fireball20xl.com/twats/comic/comics.php?id=96

(click to show/hide)

[zherok]

Also, you're a bit out of date. Apple no longer uses PowerPC processors (so no G5) and their workstation line is now known as the Mac Pro. Its pricing starts at $2499 and doesn't hit $5000 unless you upgrade about everything on the machine quite a bit.

You can click the first upgrade on the list (Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon) and put the higher end Mac Pro to $4,699.00. Doubling the RAM'll round ya out to $4,999.00. That's $5000 and you don't even have a monitor yet.

[mgz]

Also, you're a bit out of date. Apple no longer uses PowerPC processors (so no G5) and their workstation line is now known as the Mac Pro. Its pricing starts at $2499 and doesn't hit $5000 unless you upgrade about everything on the machine quite a bit.

You can click the first upgrade on the list (Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon) and put the higher end Mac Pro to $4,699.00. Doubling the RAM'll round ya out to $4,999.00. That's $5000 and you don't even have a monitor yet.

its alot harder to hit 5000$ when building a PC without just excessively buying useless upgrades.Even when using sites like falcon NW and Voodoopc and Alienware

[flaresignal]

Except that Apple doesn't care much for conscious efforts to bring down its prices, and for good reason — a race to the bottom only means increasingly-lackluster components, customer support, and software. There's a good reason Apple has consistently scored very well on customer satisfaction surveys.

Whether Apple's components are overpriced for the use and support experience you get is debatable (any long-time Mac user knows not to buy RAM from Apple, for example); in any case, the company just doesn't feel like competing on MSRP.

[mgz]

Except that Apple doesn't care much for conscious efforts to bring down its prices, and for good reason — a race to the bottom only means increasingly-lackluster components, customer support, and software. There's a good reason Apple has consistently scored very well on customer satisfaction surveys.

Whether Apple's components are overpriced for the use and support experience you get is debatable (any long-time Mac user knows not to buy RAM from Apple, for example); in any case, the company just doesn't feel like competing on MSRP.

The company doesnt compete on anything .. the only reason they are getting any growth is because of the Ipod and Iphone.

Once the chimps bought those items in droves, their computers get dedicated retards to overpay for their computers just like they do for that bag of shit cellphone and terrible mp3 player.

Nothing apple makes is "really high quality" anymore, their support isnt fucking amazing, and their prices are through the roof.

Example, my cowon S9 touch screen mp3 player. 32 gig flash memory, capacitative touch screen, and an AMOLED screen that rapes your eyes with pure beauty. And the adjustability and sound quality it puts out is 2nd to none.
Oh and did i forget to mention its 100 dollars less then the ipod touch 32gig

[fohfoh]

Apple stuff isn't that bad. It's decent, but seriously, I don't want a decent player, I want a good one. One that fits my needs. For that reason, I don't settle on an ipod. I settle one up for let's say... the cowon s9. I can actually tell the difference and I would rather not have ear cancer. But let's think on the consumer's point of view for a moment... "I LIKE LISTENING TO BRITNEY SPEARS!" or as that emo likes to say, "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!". How great is society that so much of it is ear cancer? Ah. It's great.

Mindless drones can get apple products all they want. They can spew the dumbest comments all they want. I have taken time to research things that suit my needs. If one day it can suit my needs, I may consider it. But what annoys me are people who mindlessly say how great the thing is without understanding that others have needs. It's like saying to a rally race car driver, "OMFG automatic cars will help you so much in your race. You don't have to spend as much energy thinking about changing gears." Apple products are mainly eye candy with a bit of function. They have use, but are not the "future" of products and they are not "the direction" technology is taking.

People need to realize that apple is a middle to upper level item. It is not a high class or top item. It's like a starbucks coffee. viewed as a high end coffee. But is it the best coffee in the world? No it is not. Can some cheaper ones outdo starbucks? Sometimes.

[raylu]

Nothing apple makes is "really high quality" anymore, their support isnt fucking amazing, and their prices are through the roof.

I have no opinion about the quality of their products having never used one (well, their iPod doesn't stand up to a washing and drying cycle, but that's not their fault), and their prices are certainly through the roof, but their support is fucking amazing. They control production and distribution of the hardware and software so they can take care of your machine. Their policy of "we can't figure it out, so here's a new Mac" is also nice.

[zherok]

its alot harder to hit 5000$ when building a PC without just excessively buying useless upgrades.Even when using sites like falcon NW and Voodoopc and Alienware

Alienware doesn't start till 3,600 so its possible to get it over $5,000 without buying the dumb stuff like a $130 ethernet card. What makes the Mac so easy to do is the option of dropping an entire extra processor into the thing, and their insane RAM costs. Adding a second processor isn't really an option with most PCs I imagine.

More importantly is the fact that at the lower end pretty much every Mac has components that would be far cheaper if bought separately or though a whole PC manufacturer. There is the DDR3 RAM which is still fairly uncommon in most PCs, but there's no question that they charge more than its worth for that still. You could probably build two PCs at the cost of a Mac Mini and thats their low end.

[flaresignal]

Example, my cowon S9 touch screen mp3 player. 32 gig flash memory, capacitative touch screen, and an AMOLED screen that rapes your eyes with pure beauty. And the adjustability and sound quality it puts out is 2nd to none.
Oh and did i forget to mention its 100 dollars less then the ipod touch 32gig

No third-party application support (hence no API to develop). No Wi-Fi. Et cetera.

I have no doubt that the S9 is a very capable player, but you're comparing apples to oranges. The iPod touch is basically a PDA that happens to play media; the Cowon is a media player that happens to have some PDA features.

[sdedalus83]

Example, my cowon S9 touch screen mp3 player. 32 gig flash memory, capacitative touch screen, and an AMOLED screen that rapes your eyes with pure beauty. And the adjustability and sound quality it puts out is 2nd to none.
Oh and did i forget to mention its 100 dollars less then the ipod touch 32gig

No third-party application support (hence no API to develop). No Wi-Fi. Et cetera.

I have no doubt that the S9 is a very capable player, but you're comparing apples to oranges. The iPod touch is basically a PDA that happens to play media; the Cowon is a media player that happens to have some PDA features.

Nothing without a hardware keyboard is a functional PDA, so calling the iPod touch a PDA with media functionality is a laughable suggestion.

[zherok]

Quite a few PDAs don't have hardware keyboards. The term was first used to describe the Apple Newton, which certainly never had one. You wouldn't buy an iPod to take notes at a business meeting, no, but that doesn't change the fact that its a PDA. The better argument would be whether you need your mp3 player to be a PDA for an extra $100, especially since the iPhone costs the same or less.

[iindigo]

The thing about the iPhone, though, is that it requires AT&T phone service along with it (at least in the US). That's fine if you already use AT&T, but many don't and would prefer to avoid it.

[zherok]

Still leaves the iPod touch as a very expensive mp3 player. Even the shuffle is pretty ridiculous given it has no screen, is only 4gb, and costs $80.

[Proin Drakenzol]

# One 2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
# 8GB (4x2GB)
# None
# 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
# ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
# One 18x SuperDrive
# Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse
# Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) and User's Guide
$4,499.00


this is a weaker processor (compared to the Core i7 940), with 4GB less RAM (not to mention it's only dual channel DDR2, not triple channel DDR3), a 320GB 10,000 RPM HDD short, a regular DVD burner vice a Blu-ray burner/HD-dvd reader/dvd burner, a weaker graphics card (I have the 4890 w/ 1GB). I also have the X-fi Fatality Pro audio card, which beats onboard anything hands-down

For over $1500 more. 50% higher price for less power and fewer features.

And I bought a legit copy of Vista Ultimate (32-bit for a different purpose, actually using a Dell OEM pirated 64-bit, but I still include the operating system price  )


So, yeah. 

[zherok]

Maybe I misunderstood, but looking at the Apple store, all of them are using DDR3 RAM, its part of the reason why they're so expensive (particularly the $6100 upgrade for the Mac Pro to get to 32gb of RAM, wtf is that?)

[bloody000]

Current gen of mac pros use Gainestown Xeons aka i7 with lower TDP(and supposedly some server tweaks).

and ECC DDR3 memories are cheap. 3x2GB=100usd. but apple wants $150 MORE if you choose 3x2GB or $250 for 4x2GB that's $50 for a GB. there're only four slots, so buying your own ram = wasted sticks. You lose either way.

[zherok]

Only the lower end Mac Pro has four, the higher end one has eight. Price per gig is the same until you start using 4gb sticks for the maximum capacity. $190 a gig for that stuff...

[iindigo]

Yep, the Xeons used by Mac Pros are i7-based. In fact, Apple was one of the first companies to have access to the line of processors.

As for Blueray, Apple has commented on why they haven't embraced it yet. According to Steve, the licensing is a "bag of hurt" and they don't want to pick it up until the terms are a little more flexible. They also don't like the idea of implementing the really strong DRM that comes with playing Blueray video discs.

You can, however, buy your own blueray drive for data storage and it will work with OS X right now.

[fohfoh]

Xeons have hyperthreading? Because you know... the main point of i7 is hyperthreading.