Apple releases new... everything

[mgz]

The mac pro uses a modular mb. If you get a single cpu version, there is no 'drop a second cpu in' since there isn't a second socket.  You have to buy it with two cpus to get the add on board with the second socket and 4 more dimms.
They did it because good dual socket workstation boards cost a shitload and cutting out the triple channel memory option and second socket wod cut their costs dramatically without necessitating a price drop since they still can claim the use of Xeon cpus.
A real dual socket Xeon i7 workstation would absolutely rape the shit mac pro.

and cost less

[sdedalus83]

Probably not, since a high end quadro is almost as much as a base mac pro.

[Pigeon]

Hi.

I just bought a new system.

It has a i7 920, overclocked to 3.2GHz, with 12GB of RAM, and 2 500GB hard drives. My video card is a recycled 9800GX2. It cost me about $1000 total. That's a new case, MB, CPU, RAM, PSU, optical drive, and, well, I recycled the vid card and disk drives. I'll admit I splurged on the case and motherboard an bought a mini-ATX case so I could fit it inside of a bread box.  Please describe to me how my purchase compares to a new Mac - of any sort.

Oh: btw: that's a rhetorical question. I know Macs are ridiculously expensive compared to any reasonable PC. Feel free to not respond to my post, you looney fucking Mac fanboys.

[iindigo]

I have no doubt your system is comparable to a Mac Pro in performance, but if you're going to compare, at least use the same or similarly-priced components. They didn't use i7's, but i7-based Xeons. Not that huge of a difference to most people, I know, but it's necessary if you want to do a comparison between a homebuilt or prebuilt Windows PC and Mac Pro.

And once again, we buy Macs for the OS. The nice cases for the machines are a nice extra, but if Apple officially supported homebrews and other manufacturers, you'd better bet we'd be taking those options in many cases. Some of us do it anyway... for example, I recently built a $370 hackintosh for my younger brother. Runs like a dream and is Windows-free.

[AceHigh]

Not for long, I heard that Apple did some updated on the OS to make hackintosh a pain in the ass to work. In other words your brother shouldn't update.

[iindigo]

Not for long, I heard that Apple did some updated on the OS to make hackintosh a pain in the ass to work. In other words your brother shouldn't update.

I find that hard to believe, since countless hackintosh users have installed the latest update with no problems whatsoever. I probably won't install the update until it's absolutely necessary anyway, though... it all works perfectly as it is.

[AceHigh]

No, what I meant is that it is what Apple has been talking about, they haven't actually released it yet.

[sdedalus83]

Iindigo- the point is that there is no point for a single socket i7 xeon workstation, unless ecc memory is an absolute requirement.  Intel dragging its feet on releasing a workstation grade.chipset is the whole reason why everybody else is using consumer parts and only apple has gone dual socket.  The huge feature cuts from what you would expect from an entry level workstation boards,and often find on decent consumer level products, the loss of 2 dimms per socket' 1 memory channel, and a case whuch is hardly conducive to expandability.
The single socket mac pro is a sad joke, a token gesture from the great Jobs to the unwashed masses calling for a decent desktop pc.  Jobs respondeth with, look upon the gift I have bestowed upon thee, single socket i7 xeons on a castrated platform.  The board wonders where he got the cash, to which the great jobs respondeth thus:  since the current i7 xeon boards are little more than X58 chipsets with ecc memory support, the relatively cheap consumer level i7 is killing any market for i7 xeon workstations.  They practically paid me to take 'em.  The board was quite pleased, and cheered the insight of the chosen one.
The dual socket one is an interesting novelty, certainly not as retarded as the single socket, and it does offer dual i7s before anybody else.   Although it won't stand a snowball's chance in hell of competing with real workstations once Intel stops dragging and releases a decent chipset.

[fohfoh]

The dual i7 seems like something before its time as well. And not in a good way either. It's like a "Sony move". The "oh shiz that OLED is sweet.. but fuck that's one crazy price tag..." meanwhile the competitors walk around the OLED with cheaper alternatives such as AMOLED and others. The idea is this... FUCK this price and FUCK the support going with it because it doesn't have enough users behind it yet.

[sdedalus83]

AMD is still getting some big high end server and HPC design wins, and dominated both markets for more than half a decade.  Half of what went in to nehalem was meant to crush AMD in the market they do best in, so workstations and small servers have been pushed aside.  They also want to unload all the old xeons before they won't sell.
None of that really matters to Apple, and their core users won't care about getting shafted as long as they're getting the latest and greatest.

[iindigo]

So far this is sounding like it's more Intel's fault than anybody else's.

I'd like to ask: What do YOU think Apple should have done with the latest Mac Pro update? I don't think switching from Xeons to i7's would have been a viable choice - not because the i7 is less capable, but because the i7 is considered a "consumer" chip (thus devaluing the machine for some less-informed customers) and because i7 doesn't do ECC, which is required in some higher-end fields.

[Pigeon]

I don't think switching from Xeons to i7's would have been a viable choice - not because the i7 is less capable, but because the i7 is considered a "consumer" chip (thus devaluing the machine for some less-informed customers)

This is why engineering and accounting departments are supposed to be independent of the marketing departments. Because some asshat with a communications degree and a really great fashion sense is going to decide it's better to have a really expensive computer than a cheap computer, even though performance and profits are exactly the same.

And no, really, it's Apple's fault, not Intel's. Intel released a perfectly viable high performance chipset and CPU - the i7 - and Apple decided, "No thanks, we'd rather overpay for the exact same performance." And they did. And now Apple fanboys who want a computer that's worth $1000 in PC land have to pay $2500.

I have no doubt your system is comparable to a Mac Pro in performance, but if you're going to compare, at least use the same or similarly-priced components. [...] it's necessary if you want to do a comparison between a homebuilt or prebuilt Windows PC and Mac Pro.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I'm saying I can get product Y, which is 250MHz, 4GB of RAM, 360GB of hard disk space better, (video card's better too, but unquantifiable) for significantly less money, and you're saying, "well, no, it's not an accurate comparison to product X because you didn't get bent over a rail and fucked in the ass by Steve Jobs." Well, I say: I don't want to get fucked in the ass by Steve jobs. Or anyone else.

Apple needs a midrange desktop. Period. They're missing out on anyway who wants to play the latest games - the iMac doesn't cut it, and the Mac Pro is too expensive. There are plenty of people who don't want to use Windows as a desktop OS but still want to play Crysis - Apple is missing out on that share of the market.

[iindigo]

And what of people that need ECC? Apple can't ignore those customers,  and you seemed to have cut that out of my post.

[Pigeon]

And what of people that need ECC? Apple can't ignore those customers,  and you seemed to have cut that out of my post.

People who need ECC are better served by a rackmount solution running an actual server OS.

Apple going after those customers is about as silly as General Motors building power plants.

[sdedalus83]

They needed a custom commissioned motherboard either way.  Rather than cutting costs with a modular design which did away with the costly second socket, two dimms per socket, and costly third memory channel, they should have implemented all the features available on any consumer level board, along with the extra workstation features like ecc support.  That way the customers who bought a single cpu system could drop another one in when it becomes necessary, and their high end customers would have systems that aren't crippled compared to near future i7 xeon workstations.  As it is now, once Intel turns their focus away from winning the HPC and high end server markets back, the rest of the workstation market will have fully functional systems.  12 dimms and triple channel memory might not mean much while they are the only company making dual socket i7 systems, but it will be huge in the near future.

[sdedalus83]

The only people with a single socket system who need ecc are doing it due to cost. The last reason anybody would buy a mac pro is that of cost.

Sorry for the double postm. My phone can't access the post edit link.

[Proin Drakenzol]

Apple is asking $3299.00 for the basic dual Xeon mac pro.
A machine that have twice the ram and a much, much better video card is roughly $2000 unless you want a fancy Lian-li aluminum case.

which you do, because it's pertiful <3

[bloody000]

Apple is asking $3299.00 for the basic dual Xeon mac pro.
A machine that have twice the ram and a much, much better video card is roughly $2000 unless you want a fancy Lian-li aluminum case.

which you do, because it's pertiful <3

Which doesn't improve your work or enlarge your penis/breasts.

[iindigo]

No, but higher end cases are generally nicer to work with, and once the machine is assembled, nicer to be around if you keep your tower on your desk instead of under it (I do this to reduce dust intake).

[bloody000]

No, but higher end cases are generally nicer to work with, and once the machine is assembled, nicer to be around if you keep your tower on your desk instead of under it (I do this to reduce dust intake).

cases that cost $150 are also easy to work with. paying double or more than double for aluminum or the look(of a tool) is simply unnecessary.