Author Topic: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.  (Read 11860 times)

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2009, 12:13:46 AM »
That is dumb, and that's way bigger than Texas ever was,

Think topographically.

Offline queenmetroid

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2009, 03:59:13 AM »
That is dumb, and that's way bigger than Texas ever was,

Think topographically.

I think you may as well come out and say it. But here's another hint. What is it shaped like?
Quote from: queenmetroid
Quote from: esreveR
Seriously queen, can't you read?
What makes you think I actually read your posts?

Offline Insanity

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2009, 08:09:49 AM »
How do you suppose legalizing drugs are going to help with all that? Alcohol is legal at a certain age and it's still a massive problem.
Marijuana abuse in holland is a LOT lower than it is in the USA, it's semi legal here.

With other drugs, I myself am more cautious about legalizing, but placings like Amsterdam that have legalized cocaine and heroine saw relatively no increase in usage for either drug. People that want to do heroine will do so, and it's readily available in many areas and already cheaper than a 6pack of beer. At this point, I think it would be a better bet to legalize and better control its distribution, keeping money out of those drug dealers hands.
Just to correct you here, Heroine and cocaine aren't legal in holland.
They are given out to addicts to prevent said addicts from commiting crimes to afford their addiction.
Not necessarily a good solution, but as you said people who want to do it will do it so it's better to regulate it.

Weed is semi legal here, it's currently stuck in a rather retarded construction.
Basically, coffee shops are allowed to sell weed, people are allowed to carry a small amount with them.
Coffee shops are allowed to buy weed to keep a stock, yet it is illegal to sell it to the coffee shops.
It is also illegal to produce the product, which is where you see a lot of illegal activity.

The current government is trying to push marijuana into the illegal circuit more and more because somehow those fucktards can't understand that if you make it illegal it isn't going to dissapear and give you a happy drug free world.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2009, 08:22:56 AM »
Ace, what makes you think Texas is dependent on industrial production, and since when was Houston not a global city?  Certainly not in the last 25 years.

According to Globalization and World City Research Network:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/images/world2008t.jpg

I might as well throw in a wiki link since they base all info from GaWC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2009, 09:45:08 AM »
Ace, what makes you think Texas is dependent on industrial production, and since when was Houston not a global city?  Certainly not in the last 25 years.

According to Globalization and World City Research Network:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/images/world2008t.jpg

I might as well throw in a wiki link since they base all info from GaWC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

The fact that Osaka is ranked 157th, when it's the 5th largest metropolitan economy(larger than London, supposedly the most global of cities), should be a strong indication that the GaWC is full of eurocentric bullshit.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2009, 10:21:11 AM »
Global city isn't ranked after economy only.  ::)

Are you saying it's eurocentric bullshit that ranked New York as Alpha++?
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2009, 11:12:56 AM »
Global city isn't ranked after economy only.  ::)

Are you saying it's eurocentric bullshit that ranked New York as Alpha++?

Economy is by far and away the most important factor in any legitimate ranking of metropolitan significance.

No, I'm saying that 13 European cities ranked above Chicago, 20 above New Delhi, Los Angeles, and Washington DC, 31 above Houston and Guangzhou, 52 (8 of them British) above Osaka, and 56 above Jerusalem are blatant eurocentrism.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2009, 01:58:42 PM »
Hint. it's most about networking to the rest of the world, hence "global city".
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2009, 03:08:09 PM »
Hint. it's most about networking to the rest of the world, hence "global city".

And how are Los Angeles, Chicago, DC, New Delhi, Houston, Osaka, and Jerusalem less well connected than Madrid, Warsaw, Dublin, Vienna, Budapest, Athens, Prague, and Barcelona?  Houston is the busiest port city for incoming international shipments for the largest consumer of goods in the world.  Pretty much every major exporter has offices here.  Here's one where a rather direct comparison can be made.  Dallas and Houston share a very similar relationship to that of Barcelona and Madrid.  One of each pair is the most significant regional entry point, one hosts a great deal of major corporate headquarters (Madrid - 3 of the top 100, DFW and Houston each host 25 Fortune 500 companies, combined more than NYC with two thirds the population), relatively similar populations (DFW 6.3m, Houston 5.7m, Madrid 5.8m, Barcelona 4.9m).  DFW and Houston each have GMPs of around $390bln.  The combined regional GRP of Madrid and Barcelona was $344bln in 2004, with the DFW and Houston numbers coming from 2007.  I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that currently the GMP/GRP of Houston, DFW, and Barcelona/Madrid is somewhere north of $400bln.  So not only do both DFW and Houston each have similar economies to that of Madrid and Barcelona combined, they're each far more important as centers of international business than both Spanish cities.  You can talk all you want to about history and culture, but such an overwhelming difference in financial strength and influence is far more important than what is represented by the list.

DC and New Delhi are self explanatory.  Chicago has been home to the busiest international airport for all but about 10 of the years that airports have existed; networking doesn't get any more direct than that.  LA is a blend of Houston and Chicago, along with hosting the most preeminent global entertainment industry.  Jerusalem has all of the historical importance of other major religious centers, such as Rome and Istanbul, while currently playing a much greater role in the public eye than either of those cities.  Osaka is the second or third busiest port on the planet, the fifth biggest metropolitan economy, and claims the historical Japanese cultural center of Kyoto as part of its metropolis.  Japan may be more isolationist than much of the world, and Osaka may be overshadowed by Tokyo, but two thirds of the European cities which precede Osaka in that list have no appreciable direct international trade outside of tourism and human services.

They seem to have built that list off of connections between cities of different nations, which would certainly explain the overabundance of European cities early on(If you were to treat the EU as a single nation, there would still be a slight European flavor to the list, but not the overwhelming bias shown here; London would certainly no longer precede New York, Tokyo, Singapore, Beijing and Shanghai), although the ridiculous number of British cities is only explicable as biased results.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 03:51:09 PM by sdedalus83 »

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2009, 03:25:34 PM »
(If you were to treat the EU as a single nation, there would still be a slight European flavor to the list, but not the overwhelming bias shown here; London would certainly no longer precede New York, Tokyo, Singapore, Beijing and Shanghai)

Trying to piss me off with that statement?
EU as one nation? Are you really a moron? Learn the definition of a nation, heh just the amount of different languages should be a hint already. Bah, as if a history-less American can understand....

Besides if you want to an explanation to their ranking, see this
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2009, 04:00:43 PM »
(If you were to treat the EU as a single nation, there would still be a slight European flavor to the list, but not the overwhelming bias shown here; London would certainly no longer precede New York, Tokyo, Singapore, Beijing and Shanghai)

Trying to piss me off with that statement?
EU as one nation? Are you really a moron? Learn the definition of a nation, heh just the amount of different languages should be a hint already. Bah, as if a history-less American can understand....

Besides if you want to an explanation to their ranking, see this

Since when did Norway become a part of the EU?  Your country had the balls to tell the French and Germans to fuck off.

When the other states signed up, granting the ridiculous amount of power demanded by the EU, they forsook any real claims to independent nationhood.  It's only superficial now.

Also, if you insist on differentiating between each once-nation, now state in the EU, then stop comparing the US to the EU as a whole and start comparing similar countries within Europe to similar states within the US.

And referencing the criteria used to determine status, their own rankings completely ignore the criteria when dealing with cities of historical import within the European continent, or any city within the British Isles.

EDIT: An explanation for my position on the "nation" status of EU member states - All of them have fiercely defended their own sovereignty against attempts at consolidation for at least 500 years.  Then the EU comes along and once independent nations peacefully consent to the granting of supreme authority to a higher governmental entity in exchange for greater stability and global competitiveness.  The borders between members are now open and EU law holds priority over the laws of individual states even within the state in question.  So now that they have given up the most important distinction that made them nations, and granted another entity considerable power over how and when the other distinct national traits will be eliminated, why should anyone outside the EU continue to treat them as nations? 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 04:21:33 PM by sdedalus83 »

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2009, 04:53:21 PM »
Since when did Norway become a part of the EU?  Your country had the balls to tell the French and Germans to fuck off.
I didn't say anything about that.

Quote
When the other states signed up, granting the ridiculous amount of power demanded by the EU, they forsook any real claims to independent nationhood.  It's only superficial now.
They all lost a legislative sovereignty since EU is all about common laws, common currency and trade. However don't tell me that they are not nations because of that. Hell there are country less nations in the world, in contrast USA is not a nation, but a blend of many diaspora.

Quote
so, if you insist on differentiating between each once-nation, now state in the EU, then stop comparing the US to the EU as a whole and start comparing similar countries within Europe to similar states within the US.
So tell what is the different ethnicity between Oregon and Idaho? Oh, wait silly me you actually have one such state, it is called Hawaii.

Quote
EDIT: An explanation for my position on the "nation" status of EU member states - All of them have fiercely defended their own sovereignty against attempts at consolidation for at least 500 years.  Then the EU comes along and once independent nations peacefully consent to the granting of supreme authority to a higher governmental entity in exchange for greater stability and global competitiveness.  The borders between members are now open and EU law holds priority over the laws of individual states even within the state in question.  So now that they have given up the most important distinction that made them nations, and granted another entity considerable power over how and when the other distinct national traits will be eliminated, why should anyone outside the EU continue to treat them as nations? 

Learn the difference between "state/country" and a "nation"
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2009, 05:20:16 PM »
Learn the difference between "state/country" and a "nation"

I know exactly what the difference is.  Due to the 1000 year history of constant warfare, the most important part of the national identity of most European nations has been resilience against conquest and subsequent assimilation.  Now they're giving in willingly, many even excitedly, just for a more predictable piece of the pie.  I can't imagine a greater repudiation of ones national identity than that.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2009, 05:49:45 PM »
And you have no idea how many countries don't exist any more that used to in Europe. Also not 1000 years, try 4000.

Besides it is the cultural identity that defines European nations. Territory has changed many times.

No, it is not independence that is the identity of a nation, but it's cultural ties, ethnicity and traditions.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2009, 06:11:49 PM »
And you have no idea how many countries don't exist any more that used to in Europe. Also not 1000 years, try 4000.

Besides it is the cultural identity that defines European nations. Territory has changed many times.

No, it is not independence that is the identity of a nation, but it's cultural ties, ethnicity and traditions.

Do you ever actually read a comment, or are all your replies based upon preconceptions regarding the stupidity and/or ignorance of the person you are responding to?

I never said anything about political independence; I did mention "resilience against conquest and subsequent assimilation", which has very little to do with political divisions.  Of those countries which once existed, and the peoples which comprised them, the ones that no longer exist are those which gave in and assimilated, or were destroyed.  The ones which continue to exist are those which constantly fought, no matter how futile it was, or how long it took to get results, in order to preserve that identity.

Joining the EU is like signing a contract stating "The superficial aspects of your national identity shall be preserved, and the global interests of your people protected and represented, just as long as you sign away your sovereignty."    In the past it took an overwhelming army, ravaged towns, slaughtered children, and the threat of annihilation for Europeans to accept such terms, and even then it was grudging and temporary tolerance.  You're telling me there's no difference between that and doing it gladly because it's convenient?  Even when the small print says that should the majority choose something anathema to you and your people, the laws of your country are absolutely preempted by those of the EU, so tough shit kid?

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2009, 06:28:03 PM »
You can leave it if you don't like it. The same can't be said about states in US where secession is illegal. Saying that EU is one nation is like saying that AU and NATO is one nation....

Hell maybe UN and WTo is one nation as well ::)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 06:35:28 PM by Dragoon AceHigh »
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline relic2279

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2009, 06:42:35 PM »
TO ALL OF THOSE WHO WANT SOCIALIST PROGRAMS: IF YOU WANT SOCIALIST PROGRAMS

You know... When I think about it, I'm don't consider myself a socialist. There are only a couple social programs I want. Health care and education. Similar to that of Europe. (I could get behind a national high speed rail program too, I think.)
So when people say socialism, I don't think Communism. I just think health care and education.

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2009, 07:05:29 PM »
You can leave it if you don't like it. The same can't be said about states in US where secession is illegal. Saying that EU is one nation is like saying that AU and NATO is one nation....

Hell maybe UN and WTo is one nation as well ::)

There are no established ways of leaving the EU(aside from a very loosely worded clause permitting exit should the requirements of membership violate the UN Charter; however, if the EU starts doing things which force member states to violate international law, do you really think it will unwillingly consent to the exit of a member state just because the law requires it?), and no member state has tried yet.  That constitution which never seems to get passed might include a way, and does in its current form, but until it passes, or a member leaves successfully, I'll be waiting with some popcorn and a big coke for the impending fireworks.

NATO, the UN, and WTO only regulate the actions of nations.  None of them have legitimate authority over individuals unless granted that power by the state which does.  The EU absolutely does, in some ways considerably more so than the US government has over its own citizens.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2009, 07:37:44 PM »
There are no established ways of leaving the EU(aside from a very loosely worded clause permitting exit should the requirements of membership violate the UN Charter; however, if the EU starts doing things which force member states to violate international law, do you really think it will unwillingly consent to the exit of a member state just because the law requires it?), and no member state has tried yet.  That constitution which never seems to get passed might include a way, and does in its current form, but until it passes, or a member leaves successfully, I'll be waiting with some popcorn and a big coke for the impending fireworks.

It is true that that it doesn't say anything about leaving, but it doesn't say anything about not leaving either. Besides the lack of that procedure is noted and was taken in to the Treaty of Lisbon, where it is stated that anyone can leave. It isn't yet passed because of other nazi bullshit, however attitude of EU is not against leaving.

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NATO, the UN, and WTO only regulate the actions of nations.  None of them have legitimate authority over individuals unless granted that power by the state which does.  The EU absolutely does, in some ways considerably more so than the US government has over its own citizens.
More bullshit. EU only influences whole nations, it does not (yet) have authority over people within those nations. In US however you have agencies like FBI who override state laws (Californian medical marijuana as an example) with federal laws. So I think you are really mixing up things here.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: It's easy to vote for socialism when you don't have to pay for it.
« Reply #99 on: April 25, 2009, 08:34:26 PM »
More bullshit. EU only influences whole nations, it does not (yet) have authority over people within those nations. In US however you have agencies like FBI who override state laws (Californian medical marijuana as an example) with federal laws. So I think you are really mixing up things here.

EU minimum VAT ring a bell?  The US government is not permitted to levy sales taxes, and most likely would require an amendment to be able to do so.

Considerably greater regulatory power over commerce than in the US.  Businesses are not nations.

You're about 4 years late; the EU has imposed criminal law since 2005.

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