Can BxT also be bad for fansub groups and their releases?

[macros74]

I was/am of the opinion that a site as BxT is a haven for badly seeded or (nearly) dead fansub torrents/series. I thought fansub groups would also think so (some view being archived here as a bonus I heard). Of course, there are some groups that don't want their releases here, but that's another matter.

Then I read a post on Anime Classic's website which seems to suggest BxT (and other torrent sites) also causes dead torrents. Interesting to read that.
Why do I think BxT is one of the culprits in this story according to A-Classic? Wel, I just read the comment placed with a batch release of theirs on TT.
"Screw boxtorrents, get your repacks from the source!"

What do you think about the matter?

[..]

Folks, there's a reason our stuff is poorly seeded: there aren't very many fans of vintage anime out there, and none of us have the bandwidth to spare to anally reseed everything ourselves, nor do we have the cash laying around to pay for a seedbox to do it for us. We don't repack things very often because, well, repacks are lazy releases. Fansubbing is not a big part of our lives (hence the only one episode a week thing) and if we have something new to put out, we put it out. Repacks are for weeks that things slip by or when real life interferes beyond redemption.

But, nevertheless, it seems that all everybody wants these days are repacks. They're so in demand that over the past three weeks we've seen at least three (possibly more) of our projects repacked and posted elsewhere.

And by "elsewhere" I mean "Sites that do not communicate with our tracker and are not listed on any of our sites." In other words, it's an attempt to create a new seed pool (sometimes on a reg only ratio tracker) and by extension keeps people who want to seed away from here.

So, it's time for some spring cleaning. One new repack a week until there's nothing left worth repacking. New releases will continue after that. I don't want to be a dick, and fansubbing shouldn't feel like srsbzns, but right now it feels like others are trying to make a point. And it's pissing us (or at least me) off.

And no, this isn't a cry for attention or sympathy, and comments that work on that assumption will be wiped. This is bluntness: you want it, you got it, and it means I can slack off on finishing the first few episodes of Mellowlink.

[Arveene]

Well.. first impression thought is that I'm more than willing to seed quite a bit, and not only on BxT. What I'm not willing to do is seed 24+ individual episodes, seeding one torrent with all 24 episodes has the benefits of a more efficient swarm and more seeders (I doubt you'll find more people willing to seed 24 ind episodes as opposed to 1 torrent with all of them). I'll probably have a bit more to say later, but I'm way too tired right now.

[halfelite]

Seems dumb. I come to BxT for older torrents that are hard to find and want the whole series. Or the fansub doesn't have a batch torrent. Its easier to seed 10 full season torrents then it is to seed 200 individual episodes. When I do download new episode I usually seed them to over 10 ratio so I dont think BxT hurts anyone.

And as they put it its vintage anime there isnt 1000 of people to seed it. Seems like they are putting things out but cant seed and blame everyone else.

[Aneroph]

Why should the fansubbers care if the torrent file on their site dies? They took the time to sub it and offer it for free, as long as people still have access to it somewhere then I see no reason for them to complain. If they don't have the manpower to seed every episode they put out then they could always think of just releasing the eps one at a time, then packaging them and dropping them off at BoxT for everone to seed. BoxT has a seedbox right now so there are very few dead torrents here, and the rewards for seeding help keep everything alive. People are fansubbing in order to give everyone the chance to see the anime, it seems stupid to be angry about the torrent dieing on your fansubbing site if it is still available somewhere else. Maybe I'm just missing something.

[Tatsujin]

Just re-pack and seed it off. I'd even say put it on BxT if it is allowed and allow them to seed it. BxT has crazy seeders and they don't mind either, specially the people that need ratio or are sickest that like seeding. Problem solved.

[Xanthic]

1. BxT has the best seeded and constantly reseeded by request around out of most other torrent sites, so your argument of dead torrents doesn't make sense since better and longer seeded torrents are being created.
2. It's easier to search and dl/seed things if they are all in one place, instead of billions of different sites to keep track of for each different sub group out there.
3. It's easier to seed things re-packed into complete torrents instead of 26 individual episodes, like already said.
4. If batch torrents keep popping up why should sub groups even care as long as they still have their original bot seeds for the individual files on their own site? It saves them the trouble imo.
5. It takes pressure of the bandwidth of sub group bots so the can concentrate on new individual releases.

[Mimishiki19]

BxT is still public.Anyone can download from here.It's the features that are not available(like search)for those that are not registered.Also,BxT has a thing that only let's power users download for the first 12-48 hours(it depends on the size of the torrent,me thinks) thus making it more attractive to those that like to seed.
If the groups want to keep their releases only on their tracker then it's their choice and they should ask the people here not to allow anyone to upload their stuff.Problem solved.
I do understand why some groups would not like box. I've often seen  an offer being turned down because:We'll wait for group X .Also,BxT is known to have old torrents that are seeded.Why bother trying to get the release from their tracker and seeding after that?(thus BxT being the culprit).And maybe some groups don't like to have their torrents batched with other groups.
Meah,I'm noob to the "scene" and frankly I don't really care about it much.All I care about is getting my anime and Boxtorrents is the best place for that.

[morrefule]

Personally Box may be exclusive on what content it lets on the site but it is for our benefit.  Not only that I find it a lot more inviting and useful that almost any other Torrent tracker out there that's not a pay site.  Here are a few reasons off the top of my head why Box doesn't discourage Torrents but actually encourages torrenting and places itself at a higher level than other sites.

1. Multiple copies of the same series with different Groups does not help leechers.  if you have 3 fansub versions up, you may get 8 Seeders per Torrent, instead with one copy now you have 24 seeders for the torrent, which keeps the health of a torrent up.

2. BxT isn't just a torrently site, but an Anime/Manga Community.  Users genuinely enjoy the content on Box, and are more than happy to assist others with seeds, information, identification, and proliferating the community.  There are not many places out there like it.

3. BxT is a public tracker, anyone can download from it, but if one really enjoys the content and wishes to be able to download whatever, they are encouraged to join for FREE!

4. If you want parts of a series, you can always download individual pieces.  So if you want to go episode by episode, all you have to do is download them one by one.  It isn't that difficult.

5. The Admins and Moderators are very active on the site and you can tell that they enjoy working with and contributing to the community, not just Regulating like other sites.

[SeventyX7]

2. BxT isn't just a torrently site, but an Anime/Manga Community.  Users genuinely enjoy the content on Box, and are more than happy to assist others with seeds, information, identification, and proliferating the community.  There are not many places out there like it.

This.  The community has a stake in seeding these torrents and keeping them alive.  This is why private bittorrent sites were made in the first place.

[mgz]

i think the only remotely valid point they try to bring up is that their torrents are repacked and listed elsewhere and dont have files listed on their own trackers.

But with as many fansub groups that die or change tracker locations quite regularly every point they possibly made they made a counter point for which is that offers on sites like this are packed for quality assurance. If they are so against their subs being made into batch torrents then they should try releasing the same batch torrents on their trackers themselves and stop crying.


PS - only site i can think of off hand with similar or better download speeds and uploaders is what.cd and thats because its sooooooooooo hard to upload there ppl just constantly seed like maniacs

[kristen]

No... It's not bad for fansub groups at all. If anything, it actually helps, because a person will DL from the official batch and see that so as to seed BxT batches without having to leech it, hurting the ratio.

In addition, the BxT tracker seems to be faster. I tried leeching a Chihiro batch with 50 seeds on it and go 50 kb/s. I tried a different one here with many less seeds and got 2 MB/s. As such, it'll have a chance of DLing here to seed official ones and vice versa.

Re-batches help keep files readily available, since with time, seeders will dwindle inevitably. What does NOT help is having more than one batch in a short period of time. Like, within a week of coalguys completing Toradora, there were 4 batches available. 2 gg-qq-coalguys, 1 gg-qq-coalguys re-encode, and 1 paradym-coalguys. This kills seeders and health.

[SeventyX7]

Re-batches help keep files readily available, since with time, seeders will dwindle inevitably. What does NOT help is having more than one batch in a short period of time. Like, within a week of coalguys completing Toradora, there were 4 batches available. 2 gg-qq-coalguys, 1 gg-qq-coalguys re-encode, and 1 paradym-coalguys. This kills seeders and health.

Meh.  I don't mind this.  I feel it gives us choice in what we download.  Plus, having the competition discourages people who completely suck at subbing.

[morrefule]

Personally I don't see why a fansub group wouldn't want their torrents up on box.  The reason I say this is for the pure fact of the longevity of the Torrent.  Since the Box Community is a big seeding community, these files will probably last healthily for years longer than off their personal site trackers, and are convenient for download.  If anything it helps them get their work out there, and create a larger fan base!

And maybe you can testify to that or not Kristen?

[Gretchen23]

(snip)Plus, having the competition discourages people who completely suck at subbing.

I can't help myself regardless of topic to rise to defend the beginners of any craft.  The sucky subbers of today may wind up developing into great subbers down the road...if only the best subbers get any attention or feedback, when the great groups of today eventually decide to call it a hobby and move on, who will be left?  Then again, in this tangent I am talking out my ass.  Entirely my gut reaction, as a consumer of subs and not a subber myself.

Of course that being said, Boxtorrents is kind of a showroom of what the community decides is the best release of a given series, occasionally with 1 or 2 alternatives in different format or something, so it's not a library, more a boutique.  Registering isn't hard and costs nothing, and until earlier this evening I didn't even realize you could access this stuff without even registering.  Certainly anyone would want to register, this being a pretty friendly and helpful oasis of anime fans.

I'd think that if a group subs a series and wants it to get out there, then if the files are promoted on a site like this (especially with the high-integrity policies of not renaming files and clearly indicating the sub source and such) then it serves for more people to see the particular group's work and appreciate the anime they cared enough about to sub in the first place.  May not direct traffic to that group's site...but it would if someone sees a group's work on here and goes there to see what else they do.  Content seeded here also isn't exactly hidden, the torrents appear in torrent search sites, often the most clearly titled and obviously best seeded batches around.  Torrents don't vanish into this site to be stored in a secret vault, no one here is trying to keep stuff to themselves

It's to the benefit of all anime fans everywhere for the most subs to reach the most viewers to keep interest in anime alive and thriving.

[macros74]

No... It's not bad for fansub groups at all. If anything, it actually helps, because a person will DL from the official batch and see that so as to seed BxT batches without having to leech it, hurting the ratio.

In addition, the BxT tracker seems to be faster. I tried leeching a Chihiro batch with 50 seeds on it and go 50 kb/s. I tried a different one here with many less seeds and got 2 MB/s. As such, it'll have a chance of DLing here to seed official ones and vice versa.

Arveene kind of worded how I see it also. And indeed, I've often done what Kristen describes above for series I cared about. But a batch torrent is easier to keep alive, that's a fact.

But A-C (or at least the person who posted the message) also mentioned (closed) registration torrent sites and that point I find somewhat valid. If you're not able to get in there and they have the only viable seed, wel, that is frustrating of course.

I'd think that if a group subs a series and wants it to get out there, then if the files are promoted on a site like this (especially with the high-integrity policies of not renaming files and clearly indicating the sub source and such) then it serves for more people to see the particular group's work and appreciate the anime they cared enough about to sub in the first place.  May not direct traffic to that group's site...but it would if someone sees a group's work on here and goes there to see what else they do.  Content seeded here also isn't exactly hidden, the torrents appear in torrent search sites, often the most clearly titled and obviously best seeded batches around.  Torrents don't vanish into this site to be stored in a secret vault, no one here is trying to keep stuff to themselves

Good point. Although there are still torrents here that have renamed files, recently came across one from Live-eviL. Then I can imagine a fansub group would be less happy because you then create a closed seeding pool (well, or people will have to change the file names to help seed)...

[kristen]

Good point. Although there are still torrents here that have renamed files, recently came across one from Live-eviL. Then I can imagine a fansub group would be less happy because you then create a closed seeding pool (well, or people will have to change the file names to help seed)...

I don't mind it when people re-name Chihiro files and make a batch, so long as chihiro is kept in the filename. I mean, we don't do logos or credits or anything to credit us other than the file name, so I don't like it when the only means of credit to the subbers is removed, even if the batch gives credit in the torrent comments or their website.

morreful, that is correct for the most part. And heck, it's free publicity. But there are 3 situations I would not want a torrent on box. Those are:
1. If I personally feel embarrassed by the work we did. Things like World Destruction, Rosario to Vampire 2, Zettai Karen Children with the original 15-22, Kyou no Go no Ni (Until we get around to doing a v2 of the series), etc. In that case, I'd want it covered up and die.
2. If it is a mixed torrent with a group that Chihiro dos not get along with. I wouldn't want associations with them.
3. If the torrent is a re-encode and/or re-mux of a show that we've already done and liked the quality of. For instance, if someone were to re-encode the Minami-ke torrents to the same resolution, I wouldn't want it on here.

But, my wants and what happens are different. :p

[mgz]

Good point. Although there are still torrents here that have renamed files, recently came across one from Live-eviL. Then I can imagine a fansub group would be less happy because you then create a closed seeding pool (well, or people will have to change the file names to help seed)...

I don't mind it when people re-name Chihiro files and make a batch, so long as chihiro is kept in the filename. I mean, we don't do logos or credits or anything to credit us other than the file name, so I don't like it when the only means of credit to the subbers is removed, even if the batch gives credit in the torrent comments or their website.

morreful, that is correct for the most part. And heck, it's free publicity. But there are 3 situations I would not want a torrent on box. Those are:
1. If I personally feel embarrassed by the work we did. Things like World Destruction, Rosario to Vampire 2, Zettai Karen Children with the original 15-22, Kyou no Go no Ni (Until we get around to doing a v2 of the series), etc. In that case, I'd want it covered up and die.
2. If it is a mixed torrent with a group that Chihiro dos not get along with. I wouldn't want associations with them.
3. If the torrent is a re-encode and/or re-mux of a show that we've already done and liked the quality of. For instance, if someone were to re-encode the Minami-ke torrents to the same resolution, I wouldn't want it on here.

But, my wants and what happens are different. :p

I understand that part but i used to in the past for archive sakes rename all my episodes for convenient looking around of.

So the folder might say [FanSub Group] Series Title
and in it the series were all labeled how i wanted them and when i offer these torrents on the likes of demonoid i credit the subbers
but my file names read
Series - 01
Series - 02
Series - 03

So that i can organize it by name and it stays nice and orderly

[kristen]

Yeah, something like that, or even making it something like
K-On_-_01_[Chihiro][1280x720_H.264_AAC][YURIGOGG].mkv

is fine. I just don't like batches that would be named "K-On" and contain the files K-On_01_[YURIGOGG].mkv, K-On_02_[MIOXMUGI].mkv, K-On_03_[RAEPRAEP].mkv, etc.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

If I were a fansubber, I'd probably try and use BxT for official distro because
a) Everything would be seeded.  Now there's no need for a distro team, yay.
b) It would guarentee that I/my group produces stuff that doesn't suck balls.  If it's not good enough to be on BxT, then there was no point in making it.

Of course, you'd have to release single eps somewhere else, since BxT only does completes, but... I don't know, I don't really have any experience in this, so this may just be the ravings of a mad lunatic.

In addition, the BxT tracker seems to be faster. I tried leeching a Chihiro batch with 50 seeds on it and go 50 kb/s. I tried a different one here with many less seeds and got 2 MB/s.

Why were you downloading a Chihiro batch?

[kureshii]

[..]

Folks, there's a reason our stuff is poorly seeded: there aren't very many fans of vintage anime out there, and none of us have the bandwidth to spare to anally reseed everything ourselves, nor do we have the cash laying around to pay for a seedbox to do it for us. We don't repack things very often because, well, repacks are lazy releases. Fansubbing is not a big part of our lives (hence the only one episode a week thing) and if we have something new to put out, we put it out. Repacks are for weeks that things slip by or when real life interferes beyond redemption.

But, nevertheless, it seems that all everybody wants these days are repacks. They're so in demand that over the past three weeks we've seen at least three (possibly more) of our projects repacked and posted elsewhere.

And by "elsewhere" I mean "Sites that do not communicate with our tracker and are not listed on any of our sites." In other words, it's an attempt to create a new seed pool (sometimes on a reg only ratio tracker) and by extension keeps people who want to seed away from here..

I don't see a problem here.

none of us have the bandwidth to spare to anally reseed everything ourselves, nor do we have the cash laying around to pay for a seedbox to do it for us. We don't repack things very often because, well, repacks are lazy releases. Fansubbing is not a big part of our lives [...]

Why don't they let someone else handle the bandwidth/seeding and packing then, so they can focus on their lives and on fansubbing? It seems to me their only complaint is that repacks drive seeders away from their site, which baffles me.

Here we have anime nerds (and I don't mean this negatively; everyone has something they're nerdy about anyway) for whom torrent/site management and anime-watching/archival constitute a big part of their interests. Here, people will spend hours making a nice description for you, CRC-checking your files and making sure filenames match, and seeders will gladly seed your torrents.

And if they're not using your official repack or if the torrent fails for some valid reason, you are free to use the torrent report button. Better still, you're free to have a go at making a replacement offer

Seeders are seeders, and as long as they remain accessible to the public pool, what does it matter if that seeder is on TPB, scarywater or BxT? I'm pretty sure vintage fans will still frequent their website (to get new episodes, etc), so if torrents aren't working out well for them as a means of distribution, maybe they should consider alternative distribution methods instead?