Railroad Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2009

[mgz]

If you treat people unfairly, they'll leave you.

Unless the employee lives in poverty and has no choice but to continue to work there, which is a far more common scenario then you think.

Most states are at-will I think. It benefits the employer more than the employee. Most workers wouldn't get severance.

Once again: Protip: Your life and experiences are NOT representative of the entire country. If you'll get severance if they fire you you're in a better position than most, Vic.

EDIT: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_bi_ge/us_wal_mart_jobs

"At Wal-Mart, we offer competitive pay and benefits and real opportunities for our associates to advance and build careers," Wal-Mart Vice Chairman Eduardo Castro-Wright said.

Fuck unions, amirite? It's ok for companies like Wal-Mart to claim they pay good wages when it's mostly damn near minimum wage for most of their employees, amirite?

This is why we need unions.

you must be fucking retarded.
If you expect people in mindless skillfree labor positions to be paid well and have benefits and expect to still pay 99 cents for a jug of water.

Large companies dont make money by overpaying people for what they are doing.
There is plenty of places that could use unions i dont think the people of walmart are being treated like shit, they may not be makin big money or get any or good benefits BUT YOUR WORKING AT FUCKING WALMART WHAT DO YOU EXPECT 50K A YEAR to say welcome to walmart and have a nice day

[fohfoh]

Here in Canada (not sure if it's the same in US) we have a large proportion of people who are unionized. However, they are "good unions" and we don't give a crap. The "bad unions" as stated before are what people hate.

Here, healthcare workers (nurses, doctors etc.) are almost all unionized. People who work for the city or province are also unionized (city planning, transit, etc.) Teachers as well are majority unionized.

Do they get in the way sometimes? Yeah, they do. But they do it within good reason. Teachers had their salaries reduced by 1-3% 4 years in a row, of course they're going to strike and demand either a stop or an increase in salaries (about 5 years or more ago)

A union should be about what a company should be doing. Not about what the workers want. But again a balance. A company should be taking care of its workers, but not spoiling them.

Based on the above sentence, the nurses union usually only kicks in to discuss stuff like wage increase (for instance, hazard pay if hazards increase), proper working hours (too much overtime), or legal reasons (asshole tries to sue because he got hurt while fighting a bunch of nurses).

[nates1984]

There are also plenty of hiring signs posted up, at least in my area.

Plenty of hiring signs up here as well, but none of them are exactly career opportunities.

What's minimum wage now, near $6

Try $7.75, so yea, $8-$10 is just barely above minimum wage. In fact, I would consider anything $12 and under to be barely above minimum wage, especially considering the cost of living.

you must be fucking retarded.
If you expect people in mindless skillfree labor positions to be paid well and have benefits and expect to still pay 99 cents for a jug of water.

Large companies dont make money by overpaying people for what they are doing.
There is plenty of places that could use unions i dont think the people of walmart are being treated like shit, they may not be makin big money or get any or good benefits BUT YOUR WORKING AT FUCKING WALMART WHAT DO YOU EXPECT 50K A YEAR to say welcome to walmart and have a nice day

Well, Wal-Mart is notorious for hiring illegal aliens and crushing small businesses, so fuck 'em, they should pay 50K a year. Once Walton died that company went to hell. Wal-Mart could hire LESS people and pay them MORE. It's possible. Half the time Wal-Mart employees don't have shit to do.

The service industry sucks ass, those poor folks should get a hell of a lot more money for what they deal with. Between the asshole public and don't-give-a-shit management they deserve at least $15/hr. Just because it isn't grueling labor doesn't mean it isn't full of stress and bullshit.

Here in Canada (not sure if it's the same in US) we have a large proportion of people who are unionized. However, they are "good unions" and we don't give a crap. The "bad unions" as stated before are what people hate.

Here, healthcare workers (nurses, doctors etc.) are almost all unionized. People who work for the city or province are also unionized (city planning, transit, etc.) Teachers as well are majority unionized.

Do they get in the way sometimes? Yeah, they do. But they do it within good reason. Teachers had their salaries reduced by 1-3% 4 years in a row, of course they're going to strike and demand either a stop or an increase in salaries (about 5 years or more ago)

A union should be about what a company should be doing. Not about what the workers want. But again a balance. A company should be taking care of its workers, but not spoiling them.

Based on the above sentence, the nurses union usually only kicks in to discuss stuff like wage increase (for instance, hazard pay if hazards increase), proper working hours (too much overtime), or legal reasons (asshole tries to sue because he got hurt while fighting a bunch of nurses).

The problem with American unions is that they have copied American corporate culture; apparently this hasn't happened in Canada, but I am not up to date with Canadian corporate culture, maybe yours isn't so bad.

[fohfoh]

There are many unions in Canada that are "just as bad" as the UAW. But I was just stating there's good unions, and a union should be about what a company should be doing and not what the workers want from the company.

[AceHigh]

Try $7.75, so yea, $8-$10 is just barely above minimum wage. In fact, I would consider anything $12 and under to be barely above minimum wage, especially considering the cost of living.

Bwahahahahahaha, losers!!!
Minimum wage here is 116nok, (18.4usd) and most workers get about 135 (21.5usd)

Now of course people with degree go even higher. 

[Morgia]

to all of you that flame unions... here in germany I know A LOT of people that don't do mindless underqualified jobs, but have a really good education and are long over their apprenticeship-time that earn (after taxes) like 30€ more than welfare...for 40 hours of work a week ... our doctorate candidates here earn about ~1800€/month ...that may sound much to you, but mind...germany has 62.5% income tax and 19% "Mehrwertsteuer"...the tax on food and stuff you buy (too lazy to look it up)... and that's what you get with a F*** university degree...
Germany doesn't even have a law that sets minimum wages...

THAT'S WHY THE HELL YOU NEED UNIONS... I'm so complete and utterly SICK of working like a slave and not even having enough money to do ANYTHING else but survive (rent and food... that's like everything) and I'm a F***ING natural scientist.

* Morgia feels like hitting anyone that flames about stuff like "if you want better income get it yourself"...

we currently have about 6 MILLION unemployed people in a state where only 80 Million live... guess what? If you ask for more income they will just fire you and find someone who does your job for the wage you got before...

and yes... they had unions before... but that's what you get if people bash about unions and rather listen to company-lobbyists that are only interested in short-timed maximum gain...
They don't even realize that they undermine the people's ability to buy stuff that isn't necessary for living but would be a nice commodity... just look at the car industry...you just don't buy a new car if you barely have enough money for food. So who do they expect will buy their cars if all normal employees just cannot afford them?
It's an easy equation...if people have more money to spend, the companies will sell more products so they'll have higher overall productivity... of course such long-term considerations must seem to be very far-fetched for most companies... but that's where unions usually come in and tell them that they're screwing up big time...
..don't listen to them and you'll soon get into a situation like germany at the moment...
They always whine abou how much they need their qualified personnel in the country... screw them! I'll sure as HELL emigrate to another country where I can have a much better lifestyle for my qualification than stay there and let myself be ass-raped on a daily basis.

[fohfoh]

Err... maybe.  But unions aren't always about money. I recall working at a place and the union lobbied and was super proud to have gotten "fatigue mats" for the cashiers. Now, the average shift was 5 hours with a 30 min break in between... why the fuck do you need fatigue mats? IF unions can set standards and such, great. I'm all for it. But if you also have the retards like we have here whose members are all pussies and think "Omg standing for 2 hours is hard work I get tired" vs the grunts who WALK for that period of time CARRYING shit... well... that union is a steamy pile of shit because it's not doing good for all the members.

[AceHigh]

I'll sure as HELL emigrate to another country where I can have a much better lifestyle for my qualification than stay there and let myself be ass-raped on a daily basis.

That is why you should go to: Norway -> Gjøvik -> my bed 

[mgz]

There are also plenty of hiring signs posted up, at least in my area.

Plenty of hiring signs up here as well, but none of them are exactly career opportunities.

What's minimum wage now, near $6

Try $7.75, so yea, $8-$10 is just barely above minimum wage. In fact, I would consider anything $12 and under to be barely above minimum wage, especially considering the cost of living.

you must be fucking retarded.
If you expect people in mindless skillfree labor positions to be paid well and have benefits and expect to still pay 99 cents for a jug of water.

Large companies dont make money by overpaying people for what they are doing.
There is plenty of places that could use unions i dont think the people of walmart are being treated like shit, they may not be makin big money or get any or good benefits BUT YOUR WORKING AT FUCKING WALMART WHAT DO YOU EXPECT 50K A YEAR to say welcome to walmart and have a nice day

Well, Wal-Mart is notorious for hiring illegal aliens and crushing small businesses, so fuck 'em, they should pay 50K a year. Once Walton died that company went to hell. Wal-Mart could hire LESS people and pay them MORE. It's possible. Half the time Wal-Mart employees don't have shit to do.

The service industry sucks ass, those poor folks should get a hell of a lot more money for what they deal with. Between the asshole public and don't-give-a-shit management they deserve at least $15/hr. Just because it isn't grueling labor doesn't mean it isn't full of stress and bullshit.

Here in Canada (not sure if it's the same in US) we have a large proportion of people who are unionized. However, they are "good unions" and we don't give a crap. The "bad unions" as stated before are what people hate.

Here, healthcare workers (nurses, doctors etc.) are almost all unionized. People who work for the city or province are also unionized (city planning, transit, etc.) Teachers as well are majority unionized.

Do they get in the way sometimes? Yeah, they do. But they do it within good reason. Teachers had their salaries reduced by 1-3% 4 years in a row, of course they're going to strike and demand either a stop or an increase in salaries (about 5 years or more ago)

A union should be about what a company should be doing. Not about what the workers want. But again a balance. A company should be taking care of its workers, but not spoiling them.

Based on the above sentence, the nurses union usually only kicks in to discuss stuff like wage increase (for instance, hazard pay if hazards increase), proper working hours (too much overtime), or legal reasons (asshole tries to sue because he got hurt while fighting a bunch of nurses).

The problem with American unions is that they have copied American corporate culture; apparently this hasn't happened in Canada, but I am not up to date with Canadian corporate culture, maybe yours isn't so bad.

because the shopper doesnt want to have to look around for a person if they need help, there needs to be an assload of people working at walmart. And so fucking what if they hire illegal immigrants. People complain about working for 7.50 or 8 bucks an hour for mindless skillfree labor and you wonder why they bring in an illegal immigrant ?
Try thinking about it from both sides of a fucking argument on something like this. Certain jobs arent high paying and never will be. And they shouldnt be, thats why you can work at walmart when your like 16

[Morgia]

I'll sure as HELL emigrate to another country where I can have a much better lifestyle for my qualification than stay there and let myself be ass-raped on a daily basis.

That is why you should go to: Norway -> Gjøvik -> my bed 

and in what way would that stop me from being ass-raped on a daily basis?
(I guess that kind of being ass-raped would be better though)

@mgz: sure working at walmarts is not in any way something that requires high-qualified personnel, but it's still important that you can live from the wage you get there... I guess you can do that from 7$ an hour...but even you should admit that it would be really problematic if it went any further down

[mgz]

when i was 15 i had a job, i was paid 6.75/hr do you think they should have paid me more  for my mindless labor(was washing dishes).
Living on a salary like that is tough, never said it wasnt but that doesnt mean the value of the person working there is higher because he cant live on it.
If he wanted more money he could get a second job or try and get an education while not working.
Get roommates to alleviate and split costs of things, spouse to do the same and cut back even more on taxes etc etc.

Nobody is stopping these people from getting a new job and trying to make more money.
Instead some of them just sit and complain

[Morgia]

when i was 15 i had a job, i was paid 6.75/hr do you think they should have paid me more  for my mindless labor(was washing dishes).
Living on a salary like that is tough, never said it wasnt but that doesnt mean the value of the person working there is higher because he cant live on it.
If he wanted more money he could get a second job or try and get an education while not working.
Get roommates to alleviate and split costs of things, spouse to do the same and cut back even more on taxes etc etc.

Nobody is stopping these people from getting a new job and trying to make more money.
Instead some of them just sit and complain

SURE people who do the dirty work just DESERVE to starve... why didn't I see that before???

And have you ever heard about something like unemployment? And how long it can actually take to find a new job? And yeah you were a student... that means you didn't have to pay: income taxes, the upkeep of a car or insurance (at least to the full amount)...
But yeah... people who wash dishes just don't need a car or an insurance, right... because they're second class humans... and what stops them from dropping down dead at the spot anyway... ?
Who needs them after all? Since they're just doing the work YOU don't want to do.

[vicious796]

No, they don't deserve to starve, but they do deserve to struggle and suffer. Why? Aside from the rare exception, they're there by their own means. I don't care about how many "friends" anyone has that had their terrible situation cast upon them and they, in no way shape or form, had anything to do with where they ended up aside from wrong place wrong time. That's the extreme minority. Most people working those bare-ass jobs are there for a reason:

they fucked up.

Comparing the American Unions as they are now to Germany's unions (or lack thereof) is just as ridiculous as comparing congress to parliament. You can do it but in the end it's just not the same. I agree, the core idea of a union is good, it's good to peacefully assemble for the rights and protections of one another. It's another thing to become what the major unions in America today are - money collecting beaurocracies (sp).

Also, it's not $7.25 yet but will be come July if nothing comes to stop it - which wouldn't surprise me at all with this administration - by the time it officially goes through. Right now it's $6.55. This is a considerable jump since I was 14 some 9 years ago working at Dominos for $5.75/hr so I could buy an ounce every week or so as well as snacks, drinks, and video games lol.

[lx4]

* lx4 considers arguing with Morgia but decides she is way to scary, instead he goes to the kitchen to have another glass of whine.

[mgz]

when i was 15 i had a job, i was paid 6.75/hr do you think they should have paid me more  for my mindless labor(was washing dishes).
Living on a salary like that is tough, never said it wasnt but that doesnt mean the value of the person working there is higher because he cant live on it.
If he wanted more money he could get a second job or try and get an education while not working.
Get roommates to alleviate and split costs of things, spouse to do the same and cut back even more on taxes etc etc.

Nobody is stopping these people from getting a new job and trying to make more money.
Instead some of them just sit and complain

SURE people who do the dirty work just DESERVE to starve... why didn't I see that before???

And have you ever heard about something like unemployment? And how long it can actually take to find a new job? And yeah you were a student... that means you didn't have to pay: income taxes, the upkeep of a car or insurance (at least to the full amount)...
But yeah... people who wash dishes just don't need a car or an insurance, right... because they're second class humans... and what stops them from dropping down dead at the spot anyway... ?
Who needs them after all? Since they're just doing the work YOU don't want to do.

i did pay car insurance and fuel and rent to live in my house, and i ended up applying to a couple other jobs and got a better paying one.
A company should never be obligated to pay you what you  need to live its your job to earn what you need to live.

When you willingly apply for a job at walmart you know your going to make 7.50 an hour and not have much increase

[nates1984]

they fucked up.

Some of them, but far from all. You don't understand the properties of poverty; it traps.

Comparing the American Unions as they are now to Germany's unions (or lack thereof) is just as ridiculous as comparing congress to parliament. You can do it but in the end it's just not the same

So we compare America... To itself? Of course it is reasonable to compare America to other countries; it is the only way it can be done at all.

I agree, the core idea of a union is good, it's good to peacefully assemble for the rights and protections of one another. It's another thing to become what the major unions in America today are - money collecting bureaucracies (sp).

With the gap between rich and poor continuing to grow and grow, we need something to sap funds from above. Firefox has built in spellcheckers.

Also, it's not $7.25 yet but will be come July if nothing comes to stop it - which wouldn't surprise me at all with this administration - by the time it officially goes through. Right now it's $6.55. This is a considerable jump since I was 14 some 9 years ago working at Dominos for $5.75/hr so I could buy an ounce every week or so as well as snacks, drinks, and video games lol.

It was nice when you didn't have bills to pay. I bought one game within the last six months: Halo 3.

Most states have been over 7 for a long time. OR, NV, IL, MA, CT, anyways. OR was 7.50 when IL was still 5.15, that was almost a decade ago. I thought federal minimum wage has been over 7 for a long time as well. Is DC exempt? No... DC is 7.55... >_>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

Most of those are above 7, a few at 8+, minority at the federal level. Minnesota wins.

[AceHigh]

No, they don't deserve to starve, but they do deserve to struggle and suffer. Why? Aside from the rare exception, they're there by their own means. I don't care about how many "friends" anyone has that had their terrible situation cast upon them and they, in no way shape or form, had anything to do with where they ended up aside from wrong place wrong time. That's the extreme minority. Most people working those bare-ass jobs are there for a reason:

they fucked up.

I like your idea there, I mean it's hardcore survival of the fittest, totally badass. You know like when 5 antelopes are born and the one with a sickly leg gets eaten because it is simply too weak. So.... awesome!

However!!!

You forget that humans have already fucked up so bad, I mean we are talking about a real epic fail of the creation of "society" here. I told before that I am all for meritocracy, but what a fuck can you do when you succeeded, yet get fucked up by.... well... financial crisis? I mean you can't say that someone who has a bachelor degree "fucked up" because there are too many people with his qualifications and there are not enough jobs for everyone.

Besides if you take a look past individuals and look at the whole society, you will see that make people struggle is not beneficial for anyone. You know why, because people in Brazil struggle, they struggle so bad that people who have jobs can't walk the streets. In other words a shitty country. Now in Norway people who work at a grocery store are not struggling, so I can walk around and feel safe even in the middle of a night in some backyard.

Is it morally wrong to pay more wage so they will not mug me? Maybe, but it's practical and when it comes to practicality vs morality, just read my sig.

[fohfoh]

Unions are like communism. Everyone bands together for the betterment of all, but there's a problem with elites, and the fact not everyone wants the same thing.

minimum wages are a good thing. But look at it this way. Walmart pays 7 bucks an hour for mindless job. "competitive places" pay kids 10 bucks an hour to sell clothing. (Another mindless job). Car washing, land scaping, construction... all mindless jobs. But large difference in pay. Should we even talk about how stupid some athletes are yet how much they make?

[AceHigh]

Unions are like a society. Everyone bands together for the betterment of all, but there's a problem with elites, and the fact not everyone wants the same thing.

Fixed, you failed to see how similar it is to what all people have in order to have security (societies provides security through law and protection)

[SeventyX7]

If you think unions are like communism, then you have a profound misunderstanding of both.

It's a shame that everyone who knocks unions and communism nowadays know nothing about either.