Do you believe in Fate/Destiny?

[Proin Drakenzol]

And you are still wrong because something does not have to look alien to be sufficiently advanced

You must be wrong, because if you are not, there can be no technology that will be indistinguishable from magic...

Except for the several examples I already gave you, you feckless incompetent. Learn how to read.

and something that looks alien is not always sufficiently advanced.

That's my point. Rocket technology can look like magic under the right circumstances even if it's insufficiently advanced, because it can be made to look alien.

And again, you fail at reading. My point is that rocket technology, to someone well-versed in the subject, WILL NEVER LOOK LIKE MAGIC because it WILL ALWAYS BE ROCKET TECHNOLOGY. Gimmick it up however you want, alien or not, it will never look like magic to someone that understands rocket-technology.

Your point is exactly the opposite (and wrong).

Conclusion: (again)

Any technology, whether sufficiently or insufficiently advanced, will be observed as magic if it's alien to the observer.

Conclusion: (again)

You are a failure as a sentient being and should kill yourself for your lack of reading comprehension, lack of basic logic and reasoning skills, and presumed poor hygiene.

Btw, by alien I don't mean ET's, (lol!) I mean 'grossly unfamiliar' or something along that line.
 

I know what the word "alien" means. And I am an ET (an ET2, in fact).

[darkjedi]

Except for the several examples I already gave you, you feckless incompetent. Learn how to read.

None of the examples you have given were sufficiently advanced without looking alien. You can read your own typing, right?

And again, you fail at reading. My point is that rocket technology, to someone well-versed in the subject, WILL NEVER LOOK LIKE MAGIC because it WILL ALWAYS BE ROCKET TECHNOLOGY.

Since he's well-versed on the subject, the technology will not look alien to him, and not magical, and therefore also insufficiently advanced.

Gimmick it up however you want, alien or not, it will never look like magic to someone that understands rocket-technology.

And therefore rocket technology is indeed insufficiently advanced. But it will look like magic to someone not versed in rocket technology. Magic out of insufficiently advanced technology, get it?

[sdedalus83]

Go get a box of alka selzer, an empty film cannister, an empty balloon, and some water.  Put some water and one of the alka selzer in the balloon, seal the opening with your finger and thumb, and watch as the balloon expands.  Now put some water in the film canister, drop a couple of alka selzer in, put the cap on, and place it cap down on the ground.  Watch the cannister fly.

You now should have a complete understanding of basic rocket science, something any reasonably bright and excessively curious five year old could figure out in an hour or so. The fact that rocket science is a euphemism for any technology complex enough to appear magical to the general population should give you a pretty good idea of what the average joe is actually capable of comprehending.

[darkjedi]

Now we can sit that 5-years old child somewhere and let him watch an ICBM flying off some 20 miles away, and ask him whether he believes that glorious thing with a fire on its ass going very high up is real or magic... He might say it's magic. He might not. But if he does think it's magic, I can't rightly conclude that it's really because the technology was sufficiently advanced... Because there's still the possibility that some other 5-year old child might recognize it as technology... and that other child's opinion will matter to me. It's not just the advanced technology that can be unnatural enough and confuse people; also the circumstance can do that...

[Judgment]

Trying to get this theard back on its tracks..

I don't belive in fate, we create our own futures by the choices that we make. The chaos theory is interesting though. I've thought about it sometimes and realized the fact that very small events might have huge consequenses. Never thought about the microscopic world though. As for destiny.. we might be destined to live and die here, as the people of the 21st century. Maybe the people living in the 31st century can overcome death and even resurrect their ancestors, but thats just wishful thinking. Prehaps the people living a billion years from now can come up with a way to escape from this dying universe, to achieve true immortality. I belive the multiverse's been around forever, and will be. Time's just the 4th dimension, a fragment of the vast amount (string theory suggests 11, some say infinite number) of dimensions out there.

[Proin Drakenzol]

Now we can sit that 5-years old child somewhere and let him watch an ICBM flying off some 20 miles away, and ask him whether he believes that glorious thing with a fire on its ass going very high up is real or magic... He might say it's magic. He might not. But if he does think it's magic, I can't rightly conclude that it's really because the technology was sufficiently advanced... Because there's still the possibility that some other 5-year old child might recognize it as technology... and that other child's opinion will matter to me. It's not just the advanced technology that can be unnatural enough and confuse people; also the circumstance can do that...

And again, your basic comprehension fails.


An ICBM to a five year old is BOTH "alien" AND "advanced."

It is NOT the fact that it is "alien." It is the fact that it is "advanced."



Alien technology can still be recognized for what it is provided it is not too advanced.

Seriously, do you actually really get it, but are too damn wrapped up in pride to admit you've been a fucking moron or are you really just as stupid as Semnae?

[darkjedi]

An ICBM to a five year old is BOTH "alien" AND "advanced."

Correct.

It is NOT the fact that it is "alien." It is the fact that it is "advanced."

Wrong. It really is the fact that it's alien. Being advanced only makes it easier for a technology to look alien.

No sufficiently advanced technology will ever be 'un-alien' to us. You heard me right; all sufficiently advanced technology are alien.


Ah, come on... A dumb person who considers internet as a form of modern magic can still distinguish a porn site from a fireball coming out of your ass, right? One of them is definitely magic.

[Proin Drakenzol]

An ICBM to a five year old is BOTH "alien" AND "advanced."

Correct.

It is NOT the fact that it is "alien." It is the fact that it is "advanced."

Wrong. It really is the fact that it's alien. Being advanced only makes it easier for a technology to look alien.

No sufficiently advanced technology will ever be 'un-alien' to us. You heard me right; all sufficiently advanced technology are alien.

And that's where you're wrong. If you showed me a piece of alien technology that was not too "advanced" it would still be alien; foreign, outside my everyday realm of normal, not something I have come in contact with; but not be mistaken for magic, it is still something I can comprehend.

The fact that you believe otherwise does nothing but show your deplorable ignorance of reality.

Ah, come on... An dumb average person who considers internet as a form of modern magic can still distinguish a porn site from a fireball coming out of your ass, right? One of them is definitely magic.

And I'm sure they could distinguish the difference between a bolt of magical lightning and the fireball, too. They, as well as the "modern magic" (see, you even said it yourself, retard) of the internet are all still magic to that person.

Also, fixed.

[darkjedi]

And that's where you're wrong. If you showed me a piece of alien technology that was not too "advanced" it would still be alien; foreign, outside my everyday realm of normal, not something I have come in contact with; but not be mistaken for magic, it is still something I can comprehend.

Hell, my definition of 'alien' was 'something you can't comprehend.' It seems we are at odds starting from definition of the terms. We've just been rubbing shit on each other's face...

Being advanced simply makes something harder to comprehend, that's it...

The fact that you believe otherwise does nothing but show your deplorable ignorance of reality.

The reverse could be true also...

And I'm sure they could distinguish the difference between a bolt of magical lightning and the fireball, too. They, as well as the "modern magic" (see, you even said it yourself, retard) of the internet are all still magic to that person.

So porn sites are indeed magic to them, I see. As magic as fireballs.

[Proin Drakenzol]

And that's where you're wrong. If you showed me a piece of alien technology that was not too "advanced" it would still be alien; foreign, outside my everyday realm of normal, not something I have come in contact with; but not be mistaken for magic, it is still something I can comprehend.

Hell, my definition of 'alien' was 'something you can't comprehend.' It seems we are at odds starting from definition of the terms. We've just been rubbing shit on each other's face...

Being advanced simply makes something harder to comprehend, that's it...

So you're using an invalid definition of the word? And this is my fault?

Alien does not mean advanced. It means foreign.

The fact that you believe otherwise does nothing but show your deplorable ignorance of reality.

The reverse could be true also...

...if I were wrong. Which I'm not.

And I'm sure they could distinguish the difference between a bolt of magical lightning and the fireball, too. They, as well as the "modern magic" (see, you even said it yourself, retard) of the internet are all still magic to that person.

So porn sites are indeed magic to them, I see. As magic as fireballs.

pretty much.



I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked yet.

[darkjedi]

So you're using an invalid definition of the word? And this is my fault?

I pointed out the definition few pages back. I think you were in too much of a hurry to denounce me as a heretic that you missed it.  

Alien does not mean advanced. It means foreign.

Yeah... the only requirement for being magical is for something to look really foreign... Being advanced is one easy way of looking foreign...

...if I were wrong. Which I'm not.

How can that be, when I'm right?

pretty much.

Well, dang, you should go asking people around... if they think magical fireballs coming out of a person's ass is as feasible as internet.

And internet is as feasible as you being born in this world.



I'll set yet another example for you. It's something cats will understand...


The technology behind the making of a match is simpler and easier to understand than the technology needed to construct a Gothic plate armor. Now suppose that you went back in time to some 1400s with a match in hand. Show your match to any group of people you see, and produce a fire from it. The next day, you are burning in fire on a stake. But if you paraded around in a Gothic plate armor instead, No one will burn you, even though you might look a bit weird... Comprende?



I'll point out in case you decide to purposefully play dumb again...

Gothic armor technology > match technology

[Proin Drakenzol]

So you're using an invalid definition of the word? And this is my fault?

I pointed out the definition few pages back. I think you were in too much of a hurry to denounce me as a heretic that you missed it.  

Alien does not mean advanced. It means foreign.

Yeah... the only requirement for being magical is for something to look really foreign... Being advanced is one easy way of looking foreign...

...if I were wrong. Which I'm not.

How can that be, when I'm right?

pretty much.

Well, dang, you should go asking people around... if they think magical fireballs coming out of a person's ass is as feasible as internet.

And internet is as feasible as you being born in this world.



I'll set yet another example for you. It's something cats will understand...


The technology behind the making of a match is simpler and easier to understand than the technology needed to construct a Gothic plate armor. Now suppose that you went back in time to some 1400s with a match in hand. Show your match to any group of people you see, and produce a fire from it. The next day, you are burning in fire on a stake. But if you paraded around in a Gothic plate armor instead, No one will burn you, even though you might look a bit weird... Comprende?



I'll point out in case you decide to purposefully play dumb again...

Gothic armor technology > match technology

I'm amazed that you're capable of typing and breathing at the same time.


I've already pointed out, several times, that something can be both advanced and commonplace and alien and simple.


And I've also pointed out the real definition of alien. One you even agreed with. That you've been operating on yet another one is due to your own stupidity.


Also, the term match? Been around since 1350-ish. So major history fail. And if you explained to them how it worked you wouldn't get burned. It's fairly obvious once you point out how to do it. So... alien but simple therefore not magic.

[darkjedi]

I've already pointed out, several times, that something can be both advanced and commonplace and alien and simple.

I've pointed out too that you are wrong... because something can't be both 'sufficiently' advanced and humane...

A god damn cellphone is 'comprehensible' through human intellectual capability; if a human does try to understand it, it will be 'recognizable' as technology. Therefore it's insufficiently advanced. But it can still be magical if a person decides to purposefully ignore the theory behind a cellphone and dismiss it as 'modern magic'.

And I've also pointed out the real definition of alien. One you even agreed with. That you've been operating on yet another one is due to your own stupidity.

Semantics troubles me, really. 'Alien' and 'foreign' can both be used to denote 'incompatibility with humans' when used figuratively... or at least that's what I learned from using English for the last 4 years.

Also, the term match? Been around since 1350-ish. So major history fail.

So what, because the term existed at that time people will automatically consider a tiny chopstick that spontaneously (seemingly) produce fire when rubbed against some sort of 'paper' (that's what they think) as technology, and not magic?

[iindigo]

Semantics troubles me, really. 'Alien' and 'foreign' can both be used to denote 'incompatibility with humans' when used figuratively... or at least that's what I learned from using English for the last 4 years.

Umm, aside from the butchering of the word by scifi movies to make alien mean "extraterrestrial", far and away the most popular definition for Alien is and has been simply "foreign".

Can we get back on topic now?

[darkjedi]

I don't know. I think Proin will jump at the chance to derail me again. 

[psyren]

I'll give you one chance to get back on topic.

[Lupin]

I believe that everyone is destined/fated to die.

[LoneWolf]

I believe that we'll decide our own fate. Only fate that has been determined is that we will die, some sooner some later.

[Tatsujin]

I'll give you one chance to get back on topic.

My hero. <3

[Proin Drakenzol]

I'll give you one chance to get back on topic.

sorry, I kinda went overboard. he pissed me off.


anyway, on topic:

relevant quote: "The only sure things in life are death and taxes... and we're working on the dying thing."