ratio and the wiki and bakabt

[Arandur]

@Zherok youre so damn right. Thats Insane, 219 ( over 800 GB ) Torrents downloadet in 3 Month, 95% of it are Series.. so why he need more ? he should watch the whole Stuff, and while he do.. seeding.. when he finishes he is at 1 or Higher.. Gosh what the hell is someone doing with over 200 Series in 3 Month..  thats about 66 per Month, 16 per Week.. 2,3 per Day.. noone can say hee needs so much ^^ And i thought i was a Freak *giggle*

[zherok]

that's true , but but that doesn't mean squat if there's no one to upload to wich is the case with 96% of the torrents here

The user in question has nearly 200 torrents on his leeched page with over 800gb downloaded in 4 1/2 months. I am absolutely positive he has enough material to reseed. I know I do, and I mostly have manga with single digit leechers (many have zero leechers at the moment.) You don't have to only get one thing at a time, but don't expect sympathy when it's obvious you didn't make the effort.

Tell that to the people that had spice and wolf bookmarked and final approach and seto no hanayome ect.

http://bakabt.me/user/824113/enginarc.html

My sympathy is low if he missed it. It's also not impossible to find the torrent hosted elsewhere. Third link down on google with "sudo Spice and Wolf torrent."

[surdumil]

@Zherok:  I agree with you as well.  The asymmetric up/down packages give folks a lot of rope to hang themselves with.  Then when there is a cap as well, I can see people maxing out on download and reaching their cap... no upload capacity left!  All it takes is a little calculation, planning and effort to stay out of the hole.  If you are deep in the hole, you shouldn't expect much help digging yourself out.  Check out a seedbox service.

[Spanks]

The current system is fine the way it is, i have only been with box/baka for about a month and it was a bit hard to seed to start off with. But i i found out that it takes atleast 1-2 weeks after you join before you get warned. so after i download 10gb i set my torrents to seed while added a couple i got from other places and left it for a week. Now my max upload limit is 25kb/s. So it took me a week to upload what i downloaded which was enough time to watch what i had downloaded.

And as for becoming power user, I don't think there is any problem with current system either. I will become a power user any day now(i hope) and the time i have been here has been enough to understand how everything works so that when i do make an offer it wont have many problems.

[Aneroph]

 Check out a seedbox service.

Fully agree. Donations are for helping out your favorite site, and receiving a bit of upload bonus can really help encourage downloading, but donating should never be a system used specifically for buying upload credit since that is exactly what seedboxes are made for. This is especially true for this particular case since he was leeching so much that a quick EUR5 wouldn't bring him out of the hole.

[Rhino]

how about if your a user that doesnt plan on making any offers u get to have a ratio of .60 - .80
but if your a user that wants to make offers u have to have a 1 -1.5  ratio but u get some other cool bonuses
(maybe like  only they can get bonus points credits ) - i don't know just a thought

[macros74]

This seemed more appropiate here...

Some ways that would make it easier for those to seed due to lack of seeders:

1. Put a limit on the ratio allowed to upload for each specific torrent, except for the owner.  Say a 5.0 ratio for each torrent (small and bonus torrents excluded).  This would allow someone leeching a torrent, the ability to actually seed back.  Difficult to compete with a seedbox going 24/7 on a select few torrents.

2. Allow Free Leech torrents that do give credit for uploads.  These would be reserved for the really huge mega series.  Also can be voted to alternate which series would be on that list each month, like picking underrated series.  But may want to put a ratio limit on all those too.  Might as well make Box Fansubs free leech.

3. Leave the donations open, while reducing the credit.  But actually plan on using it for serious hardware upgrades and such.

[Aneroph]

This seemed more appropiate here...

Some ways that would make it easier for those to seed due to lack of seeders:

1. Put a limit on the ratio allowed to upload for each specific torrent, except for the owner.  Say a 5.0 ratio for each torrent (small and bonus torrents excluded).  This would allow someone leeching a torrent, the ability to actually seed back.  Difficult to compete with a seedbox going 24/7 on a select few torrents.

2. Allow Free Leech torrents that do give credit for uploads.  These would be reserved for the really huge mega series.  Also can be voted to alternate which series would be on that list each month, like picking underrated series.  But may want to put a ratio limit on all those too.  Might as well make Box Fansubs free leech.

3. Leave the donations open, while reducing the credit.  But actually plan on using it for serious hardware upgrades and such.

I disagree with both 1 and 3.
1: Preventing people from seeding no matter how long they have been at it is NOT GOOD. There are people that seed lesser seeded torrents until they are blue in the face and it helps raise the speed at which people download as well as keeping all torrents old and new alive.

2: This actually sounds like a decent idea, having a few really close to dead torrents put into a freeleech for a month to raise the seeders/leechers on it as well as giving free ratio to people; however, in the long run if you have caps on your connection or one exceptionally slow (SUPER slow) this doesn't really solve that.

3: If the staff need hardware upgrades they will ask for the extra money for it, but collecting money endlessly from those people looking to toss money in their faces for upload credit will give them WAY more than what they would ever need for some upgrades and would most likely have to be stopped after a few days. Not to mention that upgrades come only once in a large while, but the money would be flowing in all the time which would just create a surplus and then we're back at square one again.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

I like this idea, or at least I like the idea of reducing the download timer. (ratio would accomplish the same thing, but might require more work) We have enough seeders on here that we can probably lower the timer. Non power users who want to help seed can get on the torrent faster. This will help a lot of issues some of our regular users seem to have. The timer is a bit long, and even for large 8GB (48 hour+) torrents, our seed pool is very healthy within the first day.

That's certainly true, yes. There are extremes of course, sometimes those large torrents have a decent seeding pool within hours, although those are uploaded by seedboxers. To be honest, if I upload big torrents I need some more time, but till now I've managed to get them seeded well within the waiting period, even being the only seeder a few times.

This got me thinking - the timer is just an approximation for how long it takes to get a complete copy out to the swarm (aside from the uploader, of course), right?  So, would it be possible to wait until the S:L ratio rises above 1/10 or something?

[Stsin]

Some ways that would make it easier for those to seed due to lack of seeders:

1. Put a limit on the ratio allowed to upload for each specific torrent, except for the owner.  Say a 5.0 ratio for each torrent (small and bonus torrents excluded).  This would allow someone leeching a torrent, the ability to actually seed back.  Difficult to compete with a seedbox going 24/7 on a select few torrents.

2. Allow Free Leech torrents that do give credit for uploads.  These would be reserved for the really huge mega series.  Also can be voted to alternate which series would be on that list each month, like picking underrated series.  But may want to put a ratio limit on all those too.  Might as well make Box Fansubs free leech.

3. Leave the donations open, while reducing the credit.  But actually plan on using it for serious hardware upgrades and such.

I disagree with both 1 and 3.
1: Preventing people from seeding no matter how long they have been at it is NOT GOOD. There are people that seed lesser seeded torrents until they are blue in the face and it helps raise the speed at which people download as well as keeping all torrents old and new alive.

That's why bonus torrents are excluded.  If there's a lack of seeders, then it will allow seeding no matter the ratio.  Maybe loosen the restriction on what's a bonus too.  Because those who seed just one torrent, other than the one they are leeching is partially the cause of the problem.
Small torrents also excluded because they need a constant seeder to keep alive....though becoming a bonus helps.
A 5.0 ratio is quite generous, imo.

2: This actually sounds like a decent idea, having a few really close to dead torrents put into a freeleech for a month to raise the seeders/leechers on it as well as giving free ratio to people; however, in the long run if you have caps on your connection or one exceptionally slow (SUPER slow) this doesn't really solve that.

Can't really help having caps or slow connection other than getting credits elsewhere.  But this idea at least allows an option for those to seed without having to first go deeper in the hole.  In effect getting more than they can up.

3: If the staff need hardware upgrades they will ask for the extra money for it, but collecting money endlessly from those people looking to toss money in their faces for upload credit will give them WAY more than what they would ever need for some upgrades and would most likely have to be stopped after a few days. Not to mention that upgrades come only once in a large while, but the money would be flowing in all the time which would just create a surplus and then we're back at square one again.

Meant to say when the need for the huge upgrades arises.  And that the credits shouldn't have gone that high in the first place, imo.  Certainly not by euro amount paid either.

[K7IA]

(I was unable to respond due to time zone differences)
For those who were kind enough to investigate my profile should know that starting Feb 2009, I upgraded to an unmetered internet account since the download quotas are 4 gb/month locally. The unmetered version is 4 times expensive, because of that I had to keep it as short as possible and download as much as possible. Upload is not subject to metering.

You should know that I can totally understand your reactions and complaints. In fact I will sue the guy who came up with asymmetric  connections I am not the villain.

I still think that seed-time is an important coefficient though.

[Stsin]

okey, bringing the discussion over to this thread:

Trying to explain idea #1 to Blubart, something came to mind:

In a way, it is possible to upload 5 times more before finishing the download, by restricting the downstream or by doing just a partial download.  So it should only apply to complete torrents....but then that allows a workaround to that restriction

[macros74]

I still think that seed-time is an important coefficient though.

And it is. It seems that some of the complainers expect to have seeded back their downloads within a week, it just doesn't always work that way. It takes time sometimes, but eventually you can get 1.0 even on individual torrents.

[WinglessOne]

Moving my response to this thread as it seems to be off topic in the one it is currently in.

If we’re going by your example…wouldn’t each of the 3 leechers on the torrent have a download speed more along the lines of 874 kb/s (provided each is getting an even share). Which is way more than a 2 mb/s connection could handle (max would be 256 kb/s). Provided all the seeders are seeding at 100%. Even if the amount were lower, I really don’t see what point you’re making with your example.

*edit*

unless of course you mean the "good" seeders aren't seeding anymore because they hit the max ratio amount (and if that's the case, why are they still included in your example as still "dishing out" 2 mb/s?)

out a theoretical 2mb/s

see what i did there? it's pretty obvious why i included them in my example if you think about it. it's showing why the idea is bad after all.
additionally i have to admit that i don't quite get your math regarding a 2mb/s connection. at least around here, if you buy yourself a connection with 2mb/s downstream you get 2mb/s downstream and not 256kb/s

edit: but of course anerph is right, maybe a mod cann merge those posts with the other thread? *puppyface*

Obviously we have a confusion in terms here. When you say you have a 2mb/s connection I think megaBIT, as that seems to be what most (if not all?) service providers use to describe their connections. If you want 2 megabyte/s connection that'd be a 16 megabit connection.

*edit*
at least that's how American companies describe their connections. After looking at your example though, its fairly obvious your 2 mb/s upload reference is megabyte considering the next one is 25 kb/s, and nobody would offer a 25 kilobit/s connection xD. Even so, with those numbers (now higher unless you take out the good seeders) I still fail to see why his idea is so "bad". Not that I'm approving of it either, but I'm just having a hard time following your example.

[blubart]

well, i'm not a service provider, so i don't change the meaning of abbreviations in one post
regarding your question what the point of my example is (in case it isn't clear with the clarification of terms): to prove that limiting the number of seeders (once they have a ratio of 5 they are kicked out) might be a good move for those seeders with bad upload speeds but is a really bad move for the torrent in general (and those who want to download it). it's just antipodal to the way torrents work.

[WinglessOne]

I understand your stance, I just fail to see how your example helps reinforce it. Unless of course those 10 "hypothetical" seeders aren't seeding because their ratio has hit the max. If so, then it makes perfect sense.

[blubart]

I understand your stance, I just fail to see how your example helps reinforce it. Unless of course those 10 "hypothetical" seeders aren't seeding because their ratio has hit the max. If so, then it makes perfect sense.

that's it, i thought that would be obvious (at least after my explanation) - sorry if that wasn't clear:

...if those with good connections in my example hit the 5.0 ratio (which is done FAST) i can't download from then anymore and am left with the slow ones...

[zherok]

That's why bonus torrents are excluded.  If there's a lack of seeders, then it will allow seeding no matter the ratio.  Maybe loosen the restriction on what's a bonus too.  Because those who seed just one torrent, other than the one they are leeching is partially the cause of the problem.
Small torrents also excluded because they need a constant seeder to keep alive....though becoming a bonus helps.
A 5.0 ratio is quite generous, imo.

I've got 5.0 on more than 21 torrents, and I never seeded JUST one at a time to manage it. Any restriction is an arbitrary number that doesn't factor a very important consideration: time. It's easy to get 5.0 given enough time. Take a look at houkounchi's profile, he's got bonus torrents, that, because he can seed so many things at once, have been seeded several dozen times over since he can keep them all going. So you would suggest he turn those off, so some other guy could come in? I guarantee the swarm suffers if users like him drop a torrent as soon as they hit 5.0.

Your plan assumes that all torrents are worth treating like they're uber popular, and that some Little Timmy with a broken ratio will come in and take over, if only some mean user wasn't hogging all the leechers. Instead your plan discourages long-term seeding. It also requires two users to take action for one to benefit, and you're coercing one of them by punishing them for seeding. If a torrent is low interest, more likely you're just discouraging people from seeding them at all. You can't make users download something.

No, the bigger problem is a lack of leechers, which your plan doesn't fix. The solution is really to not rely on just one torrent to reseed. From personal experience it's much easier to saturate your upload by have more than one torrent to work with. Some torrents have no leechers, and you have to eat the ratio. But that doesn't mean things would be better if you started removing all the high ratio seeders from the equation.

[WinglessOne]

Yes, but that second quote wasn't included in the example  

Anyways, I'm done arguing. Personally I'm still on the fence for the idea, but yeah. I guess it comes down to how many seeders there are, what kind of ratio they are capped to and what the demand for the torrent is. If you have 10 good seeds for a 5 gb torrent and they can only seed up to 5.0 that's only 250 gb's of data that can be seeded between all of em, thus only 50 people's worth of data is being transferred. But hopefully somewhere in those 50 there would be more good seeders to keep the cycle going. While the system itself isn't bad (nor is it great), it's too unpredictable in the sense that there won't always be enough seeders.

[Stsin]

That's why bonus torrents are excluded.  If there's a lack of seeders, then it will allow seeding no matter the ratio.  Maybe loosen the restriction on what's a bonus too.  Because those who seed just one torrent, other than the one they are leeching is partially the cause of the problem.
Small torrents also excluded because they need a constant seeder to keep alive....though becoming a bonus helps.
A 5.0 ratio is quite generous, imo.

I've got 5.0 on more than 21 torrents, and I never seeded JUST one at a time to manage it. Any restriction is an arbitrary number that doesn't factor a very important consideration: time. It's easy to get 5.0 given enough time. Take a look at houkounchi's profile, he's got bonus torrents, that, because he can seed so many things at once, have been seeded several dozen times over since he can keep them all going. So you would suggest he turn those off, so some other guy could come in? I guarantee the swarm suffers if users like him drop a torrent as soon as they hit 5.0.

Your plan assumes that all torrents are worth treating like they're uber popular, and that some Little Timmy with a broken ratio will come in and take over, if only some mean user wasn't hogging all the leechers. Instead your plan discourages long-term seeding. It also requires two users to take action for one to benefit, and you're coercing one of them by punishing them for seeding. If a torrent is low interest, more likely you're just discouraging people from seeding them at all. You can't make users download something.

No, the bigger problem is a lack of leechers, which your plan doesn't fix. The solution is really to not rely on just one torrent to reseed. From personal experience it's much easier to saturate your upload by have more than one torrent to work with. Some torrents have no leechers, and you have to eat the ratio. But that doesn't mean things would be better if you started removing all the high ratio seeders from the equation.

With all that being said.  It is still a problem for people being unable to seed.  Even if my solution definitely has it's faults.

You say it's due to lack of leechers?  Well, these new leechers are going to get a hell of surprise downloading that Houkunouchi/seed boxed torrent.  While they may enjoy that fast downstream, they'll quickly find themselves in a deficit that may take forever to recover uploading on that torrent and getting banned while waiting.

How is this inviting to new leechers?

I think some of you forgot what it's like to first start out on a private tracker.



GAH, I'm just going to straight up and say it since I care

For all those finding themselves in a hole and only being able to seed:

Find a torrent that you like that has a low seed ratio.
Bookmark that page (not the link).
Log out of BakaBT.
Go back to that page and download the torrent without the passkey.
Download the files, and if you are honest, seed to 1:1 ratio.
Log back in BakaBT.
Go back to that page and get the torrent with the passkey.
Now use those same files to seed that torrent and get your ratio back up.

Stay away from well seeded files for awhile.  I know that's most of the favorites, but will cause less anxiety till you build up a good seed ratio.


btw, if we go back to being named BoxTorrents, will be easier to find  The old site no longer links us to BakaBT.  So for now, it's even harder to get new leechers.  If keeping the name, someone can at least mention the transition on other forums.... but that may spark other debates :/