Umineko no Naku Koro ni

[Tatsujin]

Path, while I appreciate your effort, please don't feed the troll. And someone warn him already, it's getting tiresome.
...
I don't think Battler is the dumbest protagonist ever, not by a long shot. And while I've not seen the Fate/Stay Night anime yet, is all that you wrote in the spoiler really omitted from anime? Weird. I don't think Shirou was particularly smart in the game though, but that's only because he served as a vessel for some of Nasu's pseudo-philosophical ramblings. Other then that, he was pretty okay. But that's a discussion for another topic.

Troll, huh? I don't particularly see how I was flaming YOU in particular. I used the word fuck a gratuitous amount of times, but it was a testament to how much you annoyed me. If you wanna call me a troll, I can call you the same, because you incited that out of me with the way you were posting. Great job on the classification.

I think you guys should calm down. >_>;; And the spoiler in there about Shirou is just one of the major fragments about Shirou. The anime interprets it differently and a lot of people like it (I didn't as much, I'm one of those slow dumb people).

Anyways, this thread is getting really hot. I'm gonna sit back and see how it ends. Hehe.

[xShadow]

I'm fine and calm, as long as people admit they're stating an opinion, not a fact. They can state that from their point of view, "this", "this", and "this" is shit. That's fine. As for people who don't agree and see things another way, let them. It ain't your damn job to just shove your shit in peoples' faces, but a lot of people here just seem to fancy themselves professional literary critics and think that their opinion is all that matters.

I'll give a small list of things that can be actually PROVEN to be bad:
1. Plot holes. You can logically prove that a plot hole is a plot hole. Plot holes are bad.
2. Animation mistakes. That picture with the butler is obviously not what it's supposed to be.

As for your so-called "non-subjective" bad direction, I have news for you: it is subjective. Why? Because I disagree with people saying it's bad here; I like the way it's going (and so do some 100 people on anidb). There, owned.

Make things nice and clear for ya people?

[dbml]

I'll give a small list of things that can be actually PROVEN to be bad:
1. Plot holes. You can logically prove that a plot hole is a plot hole. Plot holes are bad.
2. Animation mistakes. That picture with the butler is obviously not what it's supposed to be.

As for your so-called "non-subjective" bad direction, I have news for you: it is subjective. Why? Because I disagree with people saying it's bad here; I like the way it's going (and so do some 100 people on anidb). There, owned.

Make things nice and clear for ya people?

That can also be looked at as mob mentality. As in, the Higurashi fanboys will claim all Higurashi related material to be brilliant no matter how bad it really is... then everyone else jumps on board to feel special. The people that don't give a damn about what the series is and actually like watching good anime are willing to see the flaws and point them out, instead of brushing them aside like they're completely meaningless or that they don't exist at all.

[Aneroph]

Found this in another topic. Thought it would fit well here:


Either way, this is awfully heated for an anime only 3 episodes in. I tend to think that all these ridiculous cliches, the over-the-top characters, and the confusing bit of storyline is a diversion to something hidden much deeper. Maybe I'm just hoping that it is, but I honestly don't think anyone would make such a cliche mystery/horror anime without viable reasons. 

[xShadow]

I'll give a small list of things that can be actually PROVEN to be bad:
1. Plot holes. You can logically prove that a plot hole is a plot hole. Plot holes are bad.
2. Animation mistakes. That picture with the butler is obviously not what it's supposed to be.

As for your so-called "non-subjective" bad direction, I have news for you: it is subjective. Why? Because I disagree with people saying it's bad here; I like the way it's going (and so do some 100 people on anidb). There, owned.

Make things nice and clear for ya people?

That can also be looked at as mob mentality. As in, the Higurashi fanboys will claim all Higurashi related material to be brilliant no matter how bad it really is... then everyone else jumps on board to feel special. The people that don't give a damn about what the series is and actually like watching good anime are willing to see the flaws and point them out, instead of brushing them aside like they're completely meaningless or that they don't exist at all.

I can tell you right now that I am not a Higurashi fanboy (if anything, I have the mentality of a person that never sticks to one crowd). Moreover, I can hardly see how you would attribute it entirely to "mob mentality". I don't think that such a thing as "mob mentality" really exists much on the internet, especially not on anidb, because anidb users are some of the people with the least communication between each other, ever. If anything, I go there when I want really unbiased ratings from a large group of people. So far, I haven't really been proven wrong. If I see something that has high ratings and a large number of people rated it that, I generally haven't been disappointed (except for Bleach. However, bleach may be moreso the fact that it had a great start, so people rated it highly when it started out, but did not retract their votes when it turned to shit, and it went on for so long Anidb is more accurate for shorter series).

Also, I usually pull up the comment sheets. To see if people had reasons for enjoying it. You can see that this isn't just blind fanboy rating. People are actually fine with the way it's going, and they have reasons. To give an example of this, there is Minami Ke Okawari. In case you haven't noticed, even fans (or if you wanna call them fanboys) of the original, great anime did not automatically just start rating this one highly. It was promptly thrown aside as bad, though if you pull up the comment sheets for it, there are still people who liked it, and they rated it high.

I don't see why anidb ratings are just "oh, it's the bandwagon"... and even if it does have a bandwagon, who is to say that the bandwagon is made of peer pressure? If you flip the situation over and think about it the other way, isn't it just as much trying to be special when you DON'T hop on the bandwagon? People that even think thoughts like that are the ones that actually CARE about peer pressure. I'm just genuinely saying, not based on whoever the fuck's bandwagon, that I think I might enjoy this. Therefore, I'm CHOOSING to hop on the bandwagon and watch this.

I think that's the way things should be. I agree that there might be just a slight, tiny bit of mob mentality in that rating, but I think that it overall represents accurate opinions and should not be thrown aside just because you think there's a bandwagon and disagree in order to not be part of it.

Found this in another topic. Thought it would fit well here:


Either way, this is awfully heated for an anime only 3 episodes in. I tend to think that all these ridiculous cliches, the over-the-top characters, and the confusing bit of storyline is a diversion to something hidden much deeper. Maybe I'm just hoping that it is, but I honestly don't think anyone would make such a cliche mystery/horror anime without viable reasons. 

I don't really care about the cliches, but I agree.... and I'm not really even heated about the anime. I'm heated about the way the discussion is getting treated here. A discussion in which people just proceed to try to debunk other's opinions because they think they hold some "orb of universal truth" in their hands just annoys me.

[dbml]

(click to show/hide)

I'll give a small list of things that can be actually PROVEN to be bad:
1. Plot holes. You can logically prove that a plot hole is a plot hole. Plot holes are bad.
2. Animation mistakes. That picture with the butler is obviously not what it's supposed to be.

As for your so-called "non-subjective" bad direction, I have news for you: it is subjective. Why? Because I disagree with people saying it's bad here; I like the way it's going (and so do some 100 people on anidb). There, owned.

Make things nice and clear for ya people?

That can also be looked at as mob mentality. As in, the Higurashi fanboys will claim all Higurashi related material to be brilliant no matter how bad it really is... then everyone else jumps on board to feel special. The people that don't give a damn about what the series is and actually like watching good anime are willing to see the flaws and point them out, instead of brushing them aside like they're completely meaningless or that they don't exist at all.

I can tell you right now that I am not a Higurashi fanboy (if anything, I have the mentality of a person that never sticks to one crowd). Moreover, I can hardly see how you would attribute it entirely to "mob mentality". I don't think that such a thing as "mob mentality" really exists much on the internet, especially not on anidb, because anidb users are some of the people with the least communication between each other, ever. If anything, I go there when I want really unbiased ratings from a large group of people. So far, I haven't really been proven wrong. If I see something that has high ratings and a large number of people rated it that, I generally haven't been disappointed (except for Bleach. However, bleach may be moreso the fact that it had a great start, so people rated it highly when it started out, but did not retract their votes when it turned to shit, and it went on for so long Anidb is more accurate for shorter series).

Also, I usually pull up the comment sheets. To see if people had reasons for enjoying it. You can see that this isn't just blind fanboy rating. People are actually fine with the way it's going, and they have reasons. To give an example of this, there is Minami Ke Okawari. In case you haven't noticed, even fans (or if you wanna call them fanboys) of the original, great anime did not automatically just start rating this one highly. It was promptly thrown aside as bad, though if you pull up the comment sheets for it, there are still people who liked it, and they rated it high.

I don't see why anidb ratings are just "oh, it's the bandwagon"... and even if it does have a bandwagon, who is to say that the bandwagon is made of peer pressure? If you flip the situation over and think about it the other way, isn't it just as much trying to be special when you DON'T hop on the bandwagon? People that even think thoughts like that are the ones that actually CARE about peer pressure. I'm just genuinely saying, not based on whoever the fuck's bandwagon, that I think I might enjoy this. Therefore, I'm CHOOSING to hop on the bandwagon and watch this.

I think that's the way things should be. I agree that there might be just a slight, tiny bit of mob mentality in that rating, but I think that it overall represents accurate opinions and should not be thrown aside just because you think there's a bandwagon and disagree in order to not be part of it.

I think there's a lot more of this mob mentality/bandwagon thing going on than you think. Bleach (and Naruto, DBZ etc) are a perfect example of it. I like Bleach because it gives me my fix for mindless battling without much else. Is it actually "good" anime? No, it's not.

The same can be said for this series. I'm enjoying it because it's so damn bad! The only aspect of it that is at least par for the course is the animation (not counting the butler disaster). The story is interesting to a point, but is falling flat in execution. For a so-called mystery, it's about as dull and boring as it can get. Where's the suspense? Everyone knows people are going to die, so it's not like it's a surprise when it happens. The drama is laughable, as it's clearly forced by the characters. Most don't act surprised at all of the deaths. Where the hell is the realism? It all seems fake. And the characters are flat as hell too, there's nothing to them... except for Maria.

I don't see how anyone who likes watching anime for whatever reason could actually find this series to be as "great" as they are rating it as up to this point.

I tend to think that all these ridiculous cliches, the over-the-top characters, and the confusing bit of storyline is a diversion to something hidden much deeper. Maybe I'm just hoping that it is, but I honestly don't think anyone would make such a cliche mystery/horror anime without viable reasons.  

I can agree with that. Right now it's absolute garbage. But could something happen that totally blows my mind and makes me think otherwise? Sure. But I don't foresee that happening here.

[zherok]

For a so-called mystery, it's about as dull and boring as it can get. Where's the suspense? Everyone knows people are going to die, so it's not like it's a surprise when it happens. The drama is laughable, as it's clearly forced by the characters. Most don't act surprised at all of the deaths. Where the hell is the realism? It all seems fake. And the characters are flat as hell too, there's nothing to them... except for Maria.

Haven't seen this, but I wonder if it's worse than Neuro? I can't say I've seen tons of mystery series, but as far as mystery goes in Neuro, everything is either blindingly obvious or it's obscured in some random scooby doo-esque explanation. It's gotta be the least suspenseful detective series I've ever seen.

[xShadow]

I mentioned Bleach, and I also mentioned why its ratings are probably skewed. However, for series that aren't slated to go on for long, anidb is quite accurate. Like I said, I've generally not been disappointed with its ratings.

When I say there's probably not much bandwagonning going on, I can give evidence by pulling up the comment sheet; no one's just like "Omg, it's from the creators of Higurashi, it's gonna be awesome." Sure, some people have anticipation, but they aren't just rating it good automatically. Where's your evidence?

As for what you think of the series, that's fine. I think there's plenty for me to like about this series. If you don't think that, then that's your opinion.

That having been said, I usually take the opinions of BXT (or Baka now... I guess) people pretty highly.. but it failed for ME here. I actually went out and read the manga at random one day, with no expectations at all (to be honest, I at first found the story description on anidb to be pretty bland myself), and found myself pleasantly surprised. My thoughts at the time were, "If the story in the anime is like this, then I can see it going places, I like this." Maybe you have a differing opinion, but this is an anime I for one see a some potential in. That's just how I think of it.

Edit: From what I read of Neuro, it isn't really like that. This show is far more occult than Neuro is, and it's kind of different in general.

[dbml]

Haven't seen this, but I wonder if it's worse than Neuro? I can't say I've seen tons of mystery series, but as far as mystery goes in Neuro, everything is either blindingly obvious or it's obscured in some random scooby doo-esque explanation. It's gotta be the least suspenseful detective series I've ever seen.

I haven't seen that series personally... but Scooby Doo... damn I love that show.

As for what you think of the series, that's fine. I think there's plenty for me to like about this series. If you don't think that, then that's your opinion.

Then please explain exactly what you like about the series so much. I gave detailed reasons as to why I don't like it so far. I've yet to see reasons why you do like it. All you keep saying is "that's your opinion". I'm trying to understand your reasons for liking it and you're giving me nothing but double talk.

[zherok]

I haven't seen that series personally... but Scooby Doo... damn I love that show.

It's not a good thing for Neuro, it's like, any detail you don't know about a murder is probably because the explanation is far too exotic to have been deducible (usually the "how," as in how a murder took place.) Everything else is usually obvious. The "who" is usually whatever character in the episode gets the most attention. The "why" is always, "because the murderer is totally fucking batshit." All "mysteries" are solved by Neuro controlling the female protagonist into implicating the suspect, while Neuro then explains the entire thing. The suspect then inevitably turns into this sorta "monster" form of themselves, and reveals the "why" (see above). It has a sorta "I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids" angle, but it's far dumber.

[psyren]

On topic or lock.

[dbml]

I haven't seen that series personally... but Scooby Doo... damn I love that show.

It's not a good thing for Neuro, it's like, any detail you don't know about a murder is probably because the explanation is far too exotic to have been deducible (usually the "how," as in how a murder took place.) Everything else is usually obvious. The "who" is usually whatever character in the episode gets the most attention. The "why" is always, "because the murderer is totally fucking batshit." All "mysteries" are solved by Neuro controlling the female protagonist into implicating the suspect, while Neuro then explains the entire thing. The suspect then inevitably turns into this sorta "monster" form of themselves, and reveals the "why" (see above). It has a sorta "I would have gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids" angle, but it's far dumber.

Ahh, that does sound pretty bad At this point, I think I can safely say this series is about as bad, but not in the exact same ways. The following aren't any major spoilers, but I'm using it anyways.

(click to show/hide)

• There is a complete void of infomation regarding the murders.
• The "who" is unknown, but there's a couple of easy guesses.
• The main character is a guy with an IQ of (at best) 40... trying to explain what's going on.
• The "why" is simple: greed. Great motivation, but not good for anime.

On topic or lock.

You got it.

[zherok]

Sounds like a winner. All I can say is that youtube video of Maria has successfully discouraged me from bothering with the series. I dunno how you can get to be that annoying with only three episodes of material.

[dbml]

Sounds like a winner. All I can say is that youtube video of Maria has successfully discouraged me from bothering with the series. I dunno how you can get to be that annoying with only three episodes of material.

Oh, it is! That video is the reason why I starting watching it. I wanted to see how bad it was, and how bad it could really get. It's gone far beyond my expectations so far I'm (sadly) kinda excited about the next episode, if only to see how much more ridiculous it can get. And I want to see more demented Maria grins! Those rule!

[Aneroph]

For some reason, the fact that everyone hates maria so much just makes me like her as a character even more. She is the only character that I remembered the name of the first time I saw her. I have my avatar picture as my desktop (I'm a sucker for anime artwork where the characters are crying/showing any other emotion than happy and determined). I think she is fairly comparable to Rika's friend Satoko in higurashi except Horie Yui's voice isn't raspy like Satoko's.

[xShadow]

Haven't seen this, but I wonder if it's worse than Neuro? I can't say I've seen tons of mystery series, but as far as mystery goes in Neuro, everything is either blindingly obvious or it's obscured in some random scooby doo-esque explanation. It's gotta be the least suspenseful detective series I've ever seen.

I haven't seen that series personally... but Scooby Doo... damn I love that show.

As for what you think of the series, that's fine. I think there's plenty for me to like about this series. If you don't think that, then that's your opinion.

Then please explain exactly what you like about the series so much. I gave detailed reasons as to why I don't like it so far. I've yet to see reasons why you do like it. All you keep saying is "that's your opinion". I'm trying to understand your reasons for liking it and you're giving me nothing but double talk.

What do I like about it? The characters, the setting and the suspense. Plus, I think it's going to go places, so I like the storyline. My opinion is that it's a good show, what more do you need to know? That's a stupid question.

As for Battler, I think he's a decent main character. He's not too stupid, but he's not too smart, either. The way he works is also kinda interesting.

I just like it, what "specific reason" do I need? >_>;

[Mimishiki19]

The little girl was going "uuuu uuuuu uuuuu" non-stop.Her mother tells her to stop but she doesn't stop and continues to "uuuuu uuuu.The mother slaps her,hard.  
This is the only part I liked.I don't need to say anything about the plot,animation,etc because it's already been said.
Oh,and I never look at AniDb ratings cause they always suck as in they do not reflect my tastes.
Btw,Shirou is a moron in the anime and in the game though it is more clearly shown how big of an idiot he is in the game.

[TCLe]

Umineko (the anime) fails in one thing that Higurashi (the anime) did, you see, unlike Higurashi, Umineko takes over the course of a few days before time resets.
That's hardly much time to work with, especially since much of it is crammed to be kept linear and still have that end-of-episode cliffhanger.
Much of the issues with Umineko (the anime) compared to Umineko (the game), is the lack of immersion.

You're pretty much told to stop in one spot for an entire week during a continuing story that is up against a clock ticking, literally.
So my suggestion to those bashing Umineko's story, is to simply just stop watching the anime until all the episodes of the arc are released, then watch them all in one go.

Of course, to those whining about all the cliche riddled plot of the sealed rooms and such, no worries, you'll get over it. This isn't really a murder-mystery game akin to And Then There Were None, Ryu07 has stated in a synopsis somewhere is that the story is more fantasy than mystery. This whole textbook example of mystery novel is a segue into the story.
Well, more like trying to cram a foot into a wineglass...but you get the idea.

[erious]

I don't really think watching the episodes in one go would change anything, at least in the first arc. Then again, the story is the only part of the anime that I still have some hope for.
But ep 04 actually wasn't completely horrible! Battler gained some points for punching Maria, and the part when Kanon gets killed was pretty damn amusing. Everything else is still weak as hell, but hey, it got better.
I only hope Maria doesn't get too broken after what happened at the end(or get shot by Natsuhi), since she's the main source of amusement in Umineko, and without her crazy antics it would get much duller.

[Nikran]

ahaha, battler punching maria was amusing, though imo it was overdue to happen.

"Hey, isn't maria strange?" Omg, someone finally noticed! Im kinda hoping in ep 5 when maria turns around she has half her face torn off. Would love to see her do those faces of hers with that. It could actually change her from hilarious to something very disturbing =P


Edit: how the hell does that crown thing stay on maria's head? Glue? Or is it surgically attached to her skull? That might explain why she's schizophrenic =P