Democrat Heathcare Reform: FAIL.

[vicious796]

Don't mind the Ace, he doesn't really bite. He just has a problem recognizing that America and Europe are similar in many ways. Like how people in Virginia think the people in California are whackjobs. We are not culturally similar in the slightest. The states in America, culturally and land-mass wise, are like the countries in Europe. You don't really like the others but you can get along.

[mgz]

Don't mind the Ace, he doesn't really bite. He just has a problem recognizing that America and Europe are similar in many ways. Like how people in Virginia think the people in California are whackjobs. We are not culturally similar in the slightest. The states in America, culturally and land-mass wise, are like the countries in Europe. You don't really like the others but you can get along.

Not true, us north eastern folk aka yankees dont always get along well with our southern brethren

[AceHigh]

He just has a problem recognizing that America and Europe are similar in many ways.

Blasphemy!

* AceHigh throws holy water at vicious

[mgz]

He just has a problem recognizing that America and Europe are similar in many ways.

Blasphemy!

* AceHigh throws holy water at vicious

you forgot THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU

[AceHigh]

Damn it! How could I forget? Ah well, too late now.

[Sosseres]

" Have a great weekend - oh - almost forgot to mention - no more free coffee as of today - it's now $1.25 a cup, and we're getting rid of the fridge in the break room.[/i]"

Minor tangent, in Sweden we get free coffee to stop people from bringing their own appliances. Which in a few cases are illegal or raises your insurance quite a bit if you have them. It is basically a case of it being cheaper to give away coffee than to have people brew their own. Don't know if that applies in the US as well.

As for the other point, didn't work to bang my head into the wall for 5 mins since I fail to see why they are paying right now (prior to the law) so I fail to see why they would stop.

[kyanwan]

This bill is the right intentions, at the wrong time.   I agree that healthcare is important, and needs to be fixed - BUT - we sure as hell shouldn't be doing it now.  And sure as fucking hell not fast and haphazardly like they're doing now.   The Democrats know - as soon as all of their policies come into play, EVERYONE will be pissed here.   They're doing as much as they can as fast as they can. 

====

The only thing I could see making this work - is if there is a mandate for healthcare.

This mandate, is something I would NOT like.   Because healthcare, under Gov't terms right now - will be $250/month.   You will be federally required to buy this.

I generally spend $50 every 4 months for healthcare.  We have an ambulatory place about 10 minutes away - that is $50/visit.   ( What's that - "walk-in" doctor - for people who haven't heard of it.   We need MORE of these places - not gov't help. )

Yes, this is under our "terrible US open market healthcare."

With "Government Help" - I will spend $1000.00 / month on healthcare.   This is $950 more than I usually spend.

[vicious796]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul;_ylt=At8c8ybJhqHDh4ta5q5VFouyFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTJvNnB1NHNwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNzA5L3VzX2hlYWx0aF9jYXJlX292ZXJoYXVsBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNjb25zZXJ2YXRpdmU-

Conservative Dems starting to speak up a little.

[relic2279]

This mandate, is something I would NOT like.   Because healthcare, under Gov't terms right now - will be $250/month.   You will be federally required to buy this.

Not sure what you are reading. That's how much it is now for programs such as Cobra. The single payer plan is not $250 a month.

I generally spend $50 every 4 months for healthcare.

You must have crappy insurance. No offense. When I was with Verizon Wireless, and had wicked insurance, it was one of their hiring perks they often tout. I was paying about $50 a month. That or you have some kind of partial insurance. Good luck if something major happens to you.

With "Government Help" - I will spend $1000.00 / month on healthcare.   This is $950 more than I usually spend.

Your facts are wrong.

[sdedalus83]

Or his employer includes health insurance before wages, as mine does.  The full time employees pay nothing for health(solid BCBS insurance) and about $10/m for dental.

[relic2279]

What do you mean 'before wages'? Before you get taxed on it? Mine also did that. Or do they just take it out anyway without telling you the cost?

My point was that I worked for a big company that had one of the premiere insurance coverages around comparable to Ford, or Microsoft and I paid $50 a month for it. (Single male, 25 at the time) and I did need to go to the hospital for some major stuff (herniated 3 discs in my back) and it's not a cheap cakewalk and a bed of roses like some of you think it's gonna be. God forbid I had something worse like cancer... I'd be broke and bankrupt. Just like my uncle was before he died after all his chemo and prescription costs.

[kyanwan]

I have no healthcare.   I pay $50 / visit when I decide to use my "nonexistent healthcare."

I've used it ... twice ... in the past 6 months.   That's $100.00 for "unaffordable private healthcare."

Now you tell me - if the Gov't or I were paying $200 a month for me to only spend $100 - in 6 months - who is saving money?

Please, explain.   I'd like to hear your explanation.

I'd rather have a HSA with high-deductible catastrophic coverage.  I keep my money if I never use it.  People who can't afford a couple thousand dollars deductible - oh well - should forgo the Xbox, vacation, expensive car, and other shit.  ( Yeah, like the BMW/Lexus driving into the housing project.  Do I need to provide video - to show you what a welfare-friendly state like Northeast Democrat-strongholds transforms into?  )

And these COBRA rates - I don't know what answer-ass you're pulling these figures out of.   When the State of CT offered me COBRA - I got quoted a rate of $600/month.  This was for $10 copay, $5 prescription copay, and dental.  

This was also in 1997 - when rates were a shitload lower.

I dunno.   I hope something passes.   Everyone will learn their lesson - and I'll just pay that fine - and keep doing what I've been doing forever.   It's a shitload LESS than paying for bullshit third-class healthcare.   People think they'll get the same care Barney Frank's getting.   I think not.   You're going to get the care that his left big toenail gets - and you're going to wait in line for two weeks for it.

Just look up the VA and how it shits on vets daily if you want to get an idea of how Federal health care will be. 

[relic2279]

Now you tell me - if the Gov't or I were paying $200 a month for me to only spend $100 - in 6 months - who is saving money?

Please, explain.   I'd like to hear your explanation.

I've been trying to tell you that this imaginary numer "$200/250" is incorrect. It costs $200-250 a month for the cobra program NOW or tons more if you want top notch private health insurance that will allow you to see specialists like doc house.

We're trying to improve upon that. I'd really like to see where you are getting $200 a month from.

[mgz]

Now you tell me - if the Gov't or I were paying $200 a month for me to only spend $100 - in 6 months - who is saving money?

Please, explain.   I'd like to hear your explanation.

I've been trying to tell you that this imaginary numer "$200/250" is incorrect. It costs $200-250 a month for the cobra program NOW or tons more if you want top notch private health insurance that will allow you to see specialists like doc house.

We're trying to improve upon that. I'd really like to see where you are getting $200 a month from.

when i turned 22 and was sent a letter saying i was no longer covered by my mothers insurance i got a cobra quote for almost 900$ a month

[kyanwan]

Now you tell me - if the Gov't or I were paying $200 a month for me to only spend $100 - in 6 months - who is saving money?

Please, explain.   I'd like to hear your explanation.

I've been trying to tell you that this imaginary numer "$200/250" is incorrect. It costs $200-250 a month for the cobra program NOW or tons more if you want top notch private health insurance that will allow you to see specialists like doc house.

We're trying to improve upon that. I'd really like to see where you are getting $200 a month from.

when i turned 22 and was sent a letter saying i was no longer covered by my mothers insurance i got a cobra quote for almost 900$ a month

BUUUUUUT NOOOOOOOO!  Cobra is only $150 a month this guy tells you!  

If you've never paid the price, you don't know how much it is!

Ok, $250 a month.  Where do I get this number from?

State Subsidized healthcare - THAT'S WHERE.

http://www.charteroakhealthplan.com/coh/site/default.asp

This is government health care.  I've seen it firsthand IT SUCKS A FAT COCK.   It's $259 a month - if you have a job.  That's where I get the number from - this is how much healthcare costs from the Gov't.  

Massachusetts has the same thing.

This is the full group rate for any adult, any condition, no pre-qualifications, any age.   Per child, is the same rate.

Mind you, the group isn't even full yet - the percentage of people paying for this plan - is small.   I've had insurance before - BCBS State of Connecticut Group ( that's the group that the State Employees are a part of.   My mother was a Revenue person for the state - yeah, a tax person.... )

State of Ct group :

Customer Service: 10/10
Coverage: 10/10
Ease of use: 10/10
Doctor Choice: 10/10
Overall: 10/10

State of Ct Charter Oak Subsidized:

Customer Service: 1/10
Coverage: 5/10
Ease of use: 2/10
Doctor Choice: 2/10
Overall: 3/10

[sdedalus83]

BCBS has always been really good.  Hopefully they expand tonik into a national service.

[kyanwan]

BCBS has always been really good.  Hopefully they expand tonik into a national service.

BCBS is excellent insurance.   Their CT State Professional Employee plan -right now- if you were to get this as an individual - would be $1K a month.   In 1997 - they tried to charge me $600 a month COBRA for it.   Even my mother - making what she did at the time - couldn't afford it, let alone me - at only 18.

That insurance was goddamned good - but I tell you - what they offer to everyone else, it's almost better to have NOTHING than to have that.  It's a nightmare.   You can get Tonik cheaper, and it's better!   It's pathetic.   The Gov't can't do anything right IMO. 

[relic2279]

BUUUUUUT NOOOOOOOO!  Cobra is only $150 a month this guy tells you!  

If you've never paid the price, you don't know how much it is!

Ok, $250 a month.  Where do I get this number from?

State Subsidized healthcare - THAT'S WHERE.

I was quoted 250$ a month with a pre-existing condition (3 herniated discs in my back) when they let me go from verizon wireless. I stated this last year here, and many times since... I'm not making it up.

As far as comparing state covered health care, to this new single payer plan or even universal healthcare, you're a moron to be blunt. What does your state's crappy plan, have anything to do with Obama's plan?

You're pulling numbers out your ass. As I suspected.

[vicious796]

I, too, have been quoted on COBRA at a considerably higher rate than $150. I don't remember the exact number but it was barely shy of $400 a month. Granted, I'm a smoker with a deep family history of cancer and heart problems. I do remember electing to not have health insurance for that time period.

Regardless, until there's an actual number on the floor there is no point in debating it. Until we have solid numbers in a bill that has serious support behind it, there's no real point in arguing over whether it sucks or whether it doesn't. Besides, I'm sure once we have a true movement, most of us will stick to our predetermined guns.

[mgz]

BUUUUUUT NOOOOOOOO!  Cobra is only $150 a month this guy tells you!  

If you've never paid the price, you don't know how much it is!

Ok, $250 a month.  Where do I get this number from?

State Subsidized healthcare - THAT'S WHERE.

I was quoted 250$ a month with a pre-existing condition (3 herniated discs in my back) when they let me go from verizon wireless. I stated this last year here, and many times since... I'm not making it up.

As far as comparing state covered health care, to this new single payer plan or even universal healthcare, you're a moron to be blunt. What does your state's crappy plan, have anything to do with Obama's plan?

You're pulling numbers out your ass. As I suspected.

if i read right cobra is a program for up to 12 months, according to cobrainsurance.com