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Bakemonogatari

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Aneroph:

--- Quote from: erious on August 02, 2009, 05:19:53 PM ---You're unable to understand this series. Most of the people don't have a problem with that.
Therefore, I don't think it's the series fault.
And no, I won't bother explaining anything - since I find it really hard to believe that anyone who's actually paying attention could completely fail to comprehend the(fairly straightforward) plot.

--- End quote ---
Straightforward? Where the heck are you getting this? I understood the first 2 eps about Senjougahara, but then the episodes with everyone at the park and walking around town they just continued talking and talking and talking and talking and talking about stuff that wasn't even related to the final points they were getting at. Erious, you are completely incapable of seeing flaws in shows you like, and incapable of seeing good things in shows you hate. I've already said that I love the artwork in this series, and Senjougahara started out as a very interesting character with all those school supplies. The music is pretty good too. The quick 'series overview' type of sequence in episode one was awesome, though it doesn't seem to be playing out the way it showed at all. I'm making an effort to like this, but every time I point out flaws, you just call me stupid and provide no evidence otherwise.

@Nikran: Thanks for clearing that up. (click to show/hide) If the little girl was really just a ghost, then how did the class representative see her and talk to her after Araragi had knocked her out? I never realized that the weight that was taken away from her was her memories. Perhaps I remember hearing it at one point, but it didn't seem massively important. That makes more sense.

Nikran:

--- Quote from: Aneroph on August 02, 2009, 05:47:48 PM ---@Nikran: Thanks for clearing that up. (click to show/hide) If the little girl was really just a ghost, then how did the class representative see her and talk to her after Araragi had knocked her out? I never realized that the weight that was taken away from her was her memories. Perhaps I remember hearing it at one point, but it didn't seem massively important. That makes more sense.

--- End quote ---

(click to show/hide)The class rep could see her because just like Araragi she also didn't want to go home. It wasn't clear in ep 4, but in ep 5 Araragi clearly mentions that fact.

newy:

--- Quote from: Nikran on August 02, 2009, 05:54:23 PM --- (click to show/hide)The class rep could see her because just like Araragi she also didn't want to go home. It wasn't clear in ep 4, but in ep 5 Araragi clearly mentions that fact.
--- End quote ---

(click to show/hide)Well, in ep4 no one thought of her being a ghost^^

erious:
Let's stick to the topic at hand shall we? Because if you're saying stuff like

--- Quote from: Aneroph on August 02, 2009, 05:47:48 PM ---Erious, you are completely incapable of seeing flaws in shows you like, and incapable of seeing good things in shows you hate.

--- End quote ---
then you really make me want to ignore you.

--- Quote from: Aneroph on August 02, 2009, 05:47:48 PM ---The quick 'series overview' type of sequence in episode one was awesome, though it doesn't seem to be playing out the way it showed at all.

--- End quote ---
...I take it that you're talking about the sequence showing events that took place prior to the start of the series? If you mistook that for a preview of things to come, then no wonder you're disappointed(though it's not impossible that those events will be revisited later in the series)
And yes, this series is as straightforward as possible for that kind of show. It's hard to even explain, because there's literally nothing to explain, other then describing the plot itself. You're telling me that characters interacting with each other is somehow out of place/hard to understand/whatever? Yes, this show doesn't have constant action. Yes, this show relies heavily on dialogue. So what? It's okay(I guess) to dislike that, but it isn't a bad thing in itself. It's like saying that Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei is a bad show because it doesn't have a story.
This show has great artistry, great writing, brilliant direction, and fairly interesting story so far. You point out lack of the story as a supposed flaw, while it's clear that you just didn't put any effort in understanding it. Not that there's really a need for effort there, but if you've saying you slept through it then I don't really know what else to say. Maybe your attention span is just too short or something, I honestly have no idea.

Borror0:
I have a question:
(click to show/hide)Why does some think that Senjougahara changed?

To me, she didn't changed all that much. I mean, yeah, she said "I love you" to Araragi but she is still as eccentric and maintains her dominant status over Araragi. When you look at her manner and how she acts with Araragi, it's obvious that she has not let her guard down all that much.

It's mostly obvious from her posture and her tone but words convey that as well.

At the beginning of the day (ep. 3) she still welcomes him as if he was trash:
"I Thought someone left a dead dog here.
But it turns out it's just you, Araragi-kun.
What? I was just saying hello."

Then, after, she tells him she wanted him to see her cloths and then mentioning the difference between show and see. That's an important part because it means that she has some esteem for him but that she still thinks she is superior to him. Wanting to show to him would imply that she was more eager to show him than if she wants him to see them. As a matter of fact, it almost comes across as if she wanted him to see how [insert fitting compliment here] she was.

Even when she tries to act nicely toward him (thanking, apologizing or declaring her love), she still takes the time to establish her superiority. Thanking him is nothing but an excuse to play with him and try to make him confess his obvious interest toward her. Having to confess her interest would put her in a non-dominant position whereas getting him say what he wants puts him into an uncomfortable position. You can see how effective that is simply by looking at how confuse he gets.

When comes the time for her to apologize, she takes huge detours, explaining how nothing is objective, that all depends on where we stand and how we never know truly know if one is right or wrong. I view it as her saying "I was wrong, but even there maybe not, and if I am; don't make a fuss about it. It's not special, really."

Heck, when she declared "I love you" it was so void of romance and it came out of the blue, as to take him by surprise. I view that as a compromise with herself between the embarrassment of confessing her feeling and her desire to be with Araragi. Her later words are still arrogant, like she was before. "But don't worry. I don't feel that indebted to you.", said with her usual cold, detached tone as if Araragi was a children that needed to be reassured.

She even diminishes the value of her falling for him: "Unluckily, you were fallen for by a crazy virgin so starved for love that she would fall for anyone who showed a little kindness." She puts herself down ("crazy virgin so starved for love") to be able to clarify that he is not special, in any way. He just happened to be a bit kind.
About the crab:
(click to show/hide)Encountering the crab had a clear impact on Senjougahara's life:  She lost her weight.

But, that has to be taken both literally and metaphorically.

While there was some negative effects from loosing her physical weight, like feeling different from others, the most important effect comes from the metaphorical meaning. That part is even explained in episode two. Weight, here, does not only refer to the weight of your body. It's also a way to measure one's freedom. The lighter one is, the less connected to the world around him he is. In Senjougahara's case, that meant forgetting about her mother. Like Oshino explained in episode 1 (22:00 in qIIq's v2), meeting a crab does not mean one will lose his weight.

Usually, nothing happens. No harm. One has to have a desire for anything to happen. 

That begs the question: What was Senjougahara's wish?

As we learn when she begs the crab, her wish was to cut the bounds between her and her mother. It could not be more clearly stated than "Please, somehow, return my mother to me." Right after that quote follows a flashback of her life.

Once the flashback ends, Oshino clearly explains what happened to her "It's a mind crab, Araragi. And so, basically, it's a god of the mind. It was formed 'thoughts' and 'cling' as well; in other words 'bounds'. So, when she met the crab, she cut her bounds with her mother. She ceased to worry about her mother. She stopped caring. She lost her dignity. She started deceiving herself."

It was clearly stated and explained. I don't know how someone could have missed on that.
--- Quote from: Aneroph on August 02, 2009, 05:47:48 PM ---Erious, you are completely incapable of seeing flaws in shows you like, and incapable of seeing good things in shows you hate.
--- End quote ---
That's quite a bold thing to say without any evidences to prove it.

Obviously, providing evidences would serve nothing. If it is true, then the poster will still deny it. If it's false, then it would expose you as a liar and a troll. Thus, the only thing that can result from this is a flame war and/or making yourself like a jerk. I wonder why you felt like pointing that out.

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