Uploading a self-edited version of an anime?

[Numenor]

Before I start I just need to point out that I am aware of the following two points:
- A4E releases can only be uploaded by their own representatives.
- DNA² is currently licensed by Central Park, and is consequently on the Do Not Upload list.

Okay, here's the situation.  I have a copy of DNA² by a4e, which I have personally ripped out of its OGM container, added an ASS subtitle track with dialogue coloured according to character, tweaked some lines and removed some typos, and repackaged in an MKV container.  I must stress that this was done purely for my own enjoyment purposes, and I have never at any point tried to take credit for the encode, or given/uploaded it to anyone.  The only two copies of this in existence are on my PC, and my backup hard disk.

But given that the files are no longer the originals, where does this leave me with regard to the possibility of uploading it in the future (if Central Park's bankruptcy results in it being removed from the DNU list at some point)?  Is it a no-go, because I have taken someone else's encode and modified the files myself?  Or perhaps specifically because it was a4e's encode?  Indeed, if all I would need to do is take a different encode and credit the relevant group, I'm sure I could manage that at some point.

I am really just asking the above in a theoretical sense, as for all I know the series might never be taken off the DNU list.  It's mostly about whether self-edits are allowed, or whether it will get the groups' backs up or not be allowed for any other reason.

[newy]

So, you're saying that your subtitles are modified a4e subtitles? If DNA² is allowed on BBT someday I think you should ask first someone from a4e if you're allowed to upload it to BBT then otherwise it's not possible I think.

[Numenor]

Yeah, I would definitely ask a4e beforehand, and probably be told no, as it would be like me telling them their work wasn't good enough - which is definitely not my intention.

So, in a more generalised sense, let's say I took a series not on the DNU list, where the subs were actually DVD subs not fansubs, and turned those into ASS subs, with the odd typo fix here and there... it's just that I've seen a few offers on BBT recently where someone took the video from one group, the subs from another, etc.  I wonder what the position would be if the subs were from an individual rather than a group.

[blubart]

generally group releases are preferred. it's not enough to fix a typo and screw over a big seederbase in the process.
on the other hand if the individual re-release features major improvements (error correction, higher quality video, substyling, etc.) i don't see what could speak against uploading it here on box. the missing group name definitely shouldn't be a reason to dismiss an offer.

[dragon191]

Yeah, I would definitely ask a4e beforehand, and probably be told no, as it would be like me telling them their work wasn't good enough - which is definitely not my intention.

So, in a more generalised sense, let's say I took a series not on the DNU list, where the subs were actually DVD subs not fansubs, and turned those into ASS subs, with the odd typo fix here and there... it's just that I've seen a few offers on BBT recently where someone took the video from one group, the subs from another, etc.  I wonder what the position would be if the subs were from an individual rather than a group.

AFAIK a4e just take subtitles from DVDs, so I don't think there would be a reason to ask them about subtitles. For the video, it probably has their logo, so yeah, you'd probably get a no as an answer.

[Path]

A4E do translation? I was under the impression that they just ripped them from the R1 releases.

Edit: Beaten to the punch 

[Essedus]

How about a system in witch people can upload their own subs in an archive, and specify for what version they are?

[Numenor]

These all sound like good points.  I hadn't realised a4e's subs were just DVD subs, but a system like Essedus suggests whereby I could upload just the new subs would be a good idea.

There are a few things about my edited version which could be considered improvements:

1) MKV instead of OGM
2) two subtitle tracks, ASS default
3) Moved OP/ED lyrics to the top to avoid covering the hard-coded kanji lyrics at the bottom
4) Japanese audio set to default

But apart from the video being a4e's (and it being on the DNU list!!) there is one major potential stumbling block in my mind to it getting approved.  And that's the fact that nobody but me has ever seen my version, so how could they know whether it is suitable for approval.

[dragon191]

These all sound like good points.  I hadn't realised a4e's subs were just DVD subs, but a system like Essedus suggests whereby I could upload just the new subs would be a good idea.

There are a few things about my edited version which could be considered improvements:

1) MKV instead of OGM
2) two subtitle tracks, ASS default
3) Moved OP/ED lyrics to the top to avoid covering the hard-coded kanji lyrics at the bottom
4) Japanese audio set to default

But apart from the video being a4e's (and it being on the DNU list!!) there is one major potential stumbling block in my mind to it getting approved.  And that's the fact that nobody but me has ever seen my version, so how could they know whether it is suitable for approval.

Even though I myself prefer Japanese audio set to default, I'm not sure if it could be considered an 'improvement', since it all depends on whether the watcher prefers the English dub or the Japanese one.
And if there comes a time that this anime is allowed to be uploaded, then I suppose you could show comparisons and tell us why it is better.

[Takeshi]

These all sound like good points.  I hadn't realised a4e's subs were just DVD subs, but a system like Essedus suggests whereby I could upload just the new subs would be a good idea.

There are a few things about my edited version which could be considered improvements:

1) MKV instead of OGM
2) two subtitle tracks, ASS default
3) Moved OP/ED lyrics to the top to avoid covering the hard-coded kanji lyrics at the bottom
4) Japanese audio set to default

But apart from the video being a4e's (and it being on the DNU list!!) there is one major potential stumbling block in my mind to it getting approved.  And that's the fact that nobody but me has ever seen my version, so how could they know whether it is suitable for approval.

Even though I myself prefer Japanese audio set to default, I'm not sure if it could be considered an 'improvement', since it all depends on whether the watcher prefers the English dub or the Japanese one.

Not because Japanese is better (though it is), but because it is the original language I feel Japanese should be default as should English subtitles and not Turkish, Danish or Swedish. Of course, it's up to the encoder/uploader himself. But even if you're a die hard dub fan, you might want to think about the majority of the anime watchers who're going to watch what you're dvdripping/fansubbing. It's stupid to make Naruto play the English track when there's so much hate around the dub, for instance. Dragonball Z would be all right since almost everyone watches/prefers the dub.

Man, it was tiring to do that everytime when I saw a new Slam Dunk episode. And also with Anime-MX's Hajime No Ippo.

[dragon191]

These all sound like good points.  I hadn't realised a4e's subs were just DVD subs, but a system like Essedus suggests whereby I could upload just the new subs would be a good idea.

There are a few things about my edited version which could be considered improvements:

1) MKV instead of OGM
2) two subtitle tracks, ASS default
3) Moved OP/ED lyrics to the top to avoid covering the hard-coded kanji lyrics at the bottom
4) Japanese audio set to default

But apart from the video being a4e's (and it being on the DNU list!!) there is one major potential stumbling block in my mind to it getting approved.  And that's the fact that nobody but me has ever seen my version, so how could they know whether it is suitable for approval.

Even though I myself prefer Japanese audio set to default, I'm not sure if it could be considered an 'improvement', since it all depends on whether the watcher prefers the English dub or the Japanese one.

Not because Japanese is better (though it is), but because it is the original language I feel Japanese should be default as should English subtitles and not Turkish, Danish or Swedish. Of course, it's up to the encoder/uploader himself. But even if you're a die hard dub fan, you might want to think about the majority of the anime watchers who're going to watch what you're dvdripping/fansubbing. It's stupid to make Naruto play the English track when there's so much hate around the dub, for instance. Dragonball Z would be all right since almost everyone watches/prefers the dub.

Man, it was tiring to do that everytime when I saw a new Slam Dunk episode. And also with Anime-MX's Hajime No Ippo.

I don't think that's true at all, there are a lot who hate the English dub. I don't know where you got your information from, but I can assure that it is very far from almost everyone.
Anyway, to you it might be an improvement to have Japanese audio as the default, but to me it's only a track order. I don't feel you improve anything by just setting Japanese as the default, I only need to press one button to switch an audio track while playing or even set the splitter to always use the Japanese track by default. In the end I still think it all depends on what the watcher prefers.

[Takeshi]

These all sound like good points.  I hadn't realised a4e's subs were just DVD subs, but a system like Essedus suggests whereby I could upload just the new subs would be a good idea.

There are a few things about my edited version which could be considered improvements:

1) MKV instead of OGM
2) two subtitle tracks, ASS default
3) Moved OP/ED lyrics to the top to avoid covering the hard-coded kanji lyrics at the bottom
4) Japanese audio set to default

But apart from the video being a4e's (and it being on the DNU list!!) there is one major potential stumbling block in my mind to it getting approved.  And that's the fact that nobody but me has ever seen my version, so how could they know whether it is suitable for approval.

Even though I myself prefer Japanese audio set to default, I'm not sure if it could be considered an 'improvement', since it all depends on whether the watcher prefers the English dub or the Japanese one.

Not because Japanese is better (though it is), but because it is the original language I feel Japanese should be default as should English subtitles and not Turkish, Danish or Swedish. Of course, it's up to the encoder/uploader himself. But even if you're a die hard dub fan, you might want to think about the majority of the anime watchers who're going to watch what you're dvdripping/fansubbing. It's stupid to make Naruto play the English track when there's so much hate around the dub, for instance. Dragonball Z would be all right since almost everyone watches/prefers the dub.

Man, it was tiring to do that everytime when I saw a new Slam Dunk episode. And also with Anime-MX's Hajime No Ippo.

I don't think that's true at all, there are a lot who hate the English dub. I don't know where you got your information from, but I can assure that it is very far from almost everyone.
Anyway, to you it might be an improvement to have Japanese audio as the default, but to me it's only a track order. I don't feel you improve anything by just setting Japanese as the default, I only need to press one button to switch an audio track while playing or even set the splitter to always use the Japanese track by default. In the end I still think it all depends on what the watcher prefers.

Well, we obviously come from different places on the Internet. I mean, recently Dragon Ball Kai watchers have been commenting one thing, how much they hate the sub and how Goku sounds like a little girl. I don't mind the sub, but I've grown up with the dub so for me that's natural.

Anyway, let's take ANF's fansub of Slam Dunk, there I think it was a mistake to put Turkish as default subtitle because there's maybe 15% Turkish who's going to watch that fansub, and 85% who's going to read the English subtitles...

I'm planning to do a GNG re-encode from my Boxset. There I'm not going to set the default audio to Danish because I'm doing those and because I'm Danish, but English because it will annoy less people when they're watching my release.

[Sosseres]

Why not release this just as all other releases are done and once/if this is allowed the comparison is easy since several people have already done it.

[dragon191]

Well, we obviously come from different places on the Internet. I mean, recently Dragon Ball Kai watchers have been commenting one thing, how much they hate the sub and how Goku sounds like a little girl. I don't mind the sub, but I've grown up with the dub so for me that's natural.

Anyway, let's take ANF's fansub of Slam Dunk, there I think it was a mistake to put Turkish as default subtitle because there's maybe 15% Turkish who's going to watch that fansub, and 85% who's going to read the English subtitles...

I'm planning to do a GNG re-encode from my Boxset. There I'm not going to set the default audio to Danish because I'm doing those and because I'm Danish, but English because it will annoy less people when they're watching my release.

Well, what matters is your main target when you release something and whichever that is differs per group/person. Different people will have different opinions regarding the default streams. While I understand your example about the Turkish subtitles and Danish audio, I'm not sure how many people will watch the video using the English dub, but any numbers would only be a guess.

[Zalis116]

I don't feel you improve anything by just setting Japanese as the default, I only need to press one button to switch an audio track while playing or even set the splitter to always use the Japanese track by default. In the end I still think it all depends on what the watcher prefers.

I'm glad I'm not the only one in this thread who remembers that Haali Media Splitter can automatically default to either audio track, as long as the streams are properly labeled. I don't think it matters either way, but since I never see English audio watchers whining about Japanese audio being default, doing Japanese as default will deflect most criticism.

As a side point, I think English audio should be default on dual-audio releases of newer series where HD or reasonably HQ SD fansubs/single-audio releases (like KAA and such) exist. Who's going to be downloading dual-audio releases of series like Ergo Proxy, Gurren Lagann, Darker Than Black, Haruhi, etc., other than dub fans?

[Numenor]

As a side point, I think English audio should be default on dual-audio releases of newer series where HD or reasonably HQ SD fansubs/single-audio releases (like KAA and such) exist. Who's going to be downloading dual-audio releases of series like Ergo Proxy, Gurren Lagann, Darker Than Black, Haruhi, etc., other than dub fans?

Why's that then?  Are they rubbish? 

Oh hang on - I get it.  Fans of the Japanese audio would have the single-audio TV rips, right?

[dragon191]

As a side point, I think English audio should be default on dual-audio releases of newer series where HD or reasonably HQ SD fansubs/single-audio releases (like KAA and such) exist. Who's going to be downloading dual-audio releases of series like Ergo Proxy, Gurren Lagann, Darker Than Black, Haruhi, etc., other than dub fans?

Why's that then?  Are they rubbish? 

Oh hang on - I get it.  Fans of the Japanese audio would have the single-audio TV rips, right?

I think most of the watchers would not download another version some time after the show is done, so most of the people who download them want to watch with the English dub or just want to upgrade. There will also be a group watching the show for the first time, who could be watching with either the original track or the English one.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

As a side point, I think English audio should be default on dual-audio releases of newer series where HD or reasonably HQ SD fansubs/single-audio releases (like KAA and such) exist. Who's going to be downloading dual-audio releases of series like Ergo Proxy, Gurren Lagann, Darker Than Black, Haruhi, etc., other than dub fans?

Why's that then?  Are they rubbish? 

Oh hang on - I get it.  Fans of the Japanese audio would have the single-audio TV rips, right?

Generally, yes.  They prefer the honorifics that fansubs provide, feel that the English audio track is a waste of space and despise the imagesubs that many dvd-rips come with.  Also, HDTV rips can be better than DVD-rips, quality-wise, if they aren't station upscales.

[Numenor]

Sounds about right.  I prefer the honorifics, and the 720p files rather than DVD-rips - and I hate the squeaky voices in the English dubs with a passion.

One thing I'm probably in the minority about though is that I prefer the characters' names to be in the Japanese order - Familyname Givenname.  I think we Westerners on the whole are far too ignorant about other cultures doing things differently, and that reversing their names to fit our own standards is doing them a disservice.  We should be educating our own people to cultural diversity, not ignoring it.

Oh, tell you what I don't like when it comes to subtitles though - when someone has a different dialect or speaks in an archaic fashion, and the subbers decide to actually end the English lines with 'de arimasu', 'de gozaru', or whatever.  No, if you're translating, just give us the English.  We can hear the dialect for ourselves.

[Sosseres]

Dialects should be translated a bit differently, but still in English. At least if they are different enough from the original for them to be hard to hear for the translator. Take as an example the extras after one episode in Video Girl AI where it is almost impossible to hear they are saying the exact same thing as in the episode.