Discussion Forums > Politics
Crazy economic growth of China
darkjedi:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:11:00 AM ---Yes they can influence the world economy, that's why they are economical great powers, however if one of the real superpowers would just disappear, it would not influence the economy, but literally destroy it. And that is an economical superpower.
So if S.Korea suddenly disappears, there will be big fluxuations in world economy. If however USA suddenly disappears and with them the dollar, then the current economy will collapse completely. *Poof* fucking gone.
A superpower is a state with a leading position in the international system and the ability to influence events and its own interests and project power on a worldwide scale to protect those interests; it is traditionally considered to be one step higher than a great power.
Oh well, you making up your own definitions for terms that the definition is already agreed on is nothing new.
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Hah. Japan or India or South Korea aren't even great powers in any other arena than economy, (except maybe Japan in cultural arena) but my definition of 'economic superpower' will still apply to those countries even by international standard. If it didn't, then even Germany is not a superpower, because it has no aircraft carrier and its culture is not dominant. :P But it has strong enough economic power to rattle the entire structure of the E.U. market that can in turn crash the U.S. market, and so on. It will greatly sway the balance in China's favor, who has the world's 3rd biggest market share, next to E.U. and U.S. I see that you doubt the credibility of India as an economic superpower on account of low GDP per capita and that of South Korea for having a meager 1.4 trillion USD purchasing power, but if either of those countries are gone, what do you think will happen to China, when those two countries constitute 30-40% of China's market? It will once again tip the balance in the West's favor, then voila, U.S.'s global market industries take the thrones again, and East's back to the Dark Age, then comes the recession once more. (may or may not; but China's market crashing due to removal of India and South Korea is very dangerous) The world can bear Indonesia being gone, so Indonesia is not a superpower, but India, and South Korea, they can't. Quite a few world leaders will be crying to have them come back. I know India and South Korea are not full-fledged superpowers given their insufficient military force projection and lack of cultural and political impact, (not even Japan, in fact) but economically, they can be. Their economy can cause more than mere fluctuations in world economy, that's what I believe, and that's where our beliefs differ.
--- Quote from: Sosseres on July 13, 2009, 08:36:04 AM ---Sadly the Earth can't support another huge consumer market resource wise, at least that is the feeling I've gotten in recent years.
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True. I also feel that we should be drilling asteroids by the next 40 years or our grandchildren will be riding bicycles instead of hypersonic jetliners.
AceHigh:
--- Quote from: darkjedi on July 13, 2009, 08:37:34 AM ---
Hah. Japan or India or South Korea aren't even great powers in any other arena than economy, (except maybe Japan in cultural arena) but my definition of 'economic superpower' will still apply to those countries even by international standard.
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Eh..... no.
--- Quote ---If it didn't, then even Germany is not a superpower, because it has no aircraft carrier and its culture is not dominant.
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Not a dominant culture? ßut the language is so fun here, ßasically I have heard every single language except German so far, ßut the culture is full of weirdness. I have already seen so many complete weirdos that I stopped commenting aßout that after a while. Oh, ßy the way their keyßoard is funny, Y and Z switched places ;D
And no, Germany is not a super power in either aspect.
--- Quote --- :P But it has strong enough economic power to rattle the entire structure of the E.U. market that can in turn crash the U.S. market, and so on.
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Yeah, they made EU because they are not superpowers on their own. In a union however, the economy is bigger then the US one making it the dominant one in the world. Still, we are talking about countries, not unions so EU is irrelevant.
--- Quote ---I see that you doubt the credibility of India as an economic superpower on account of low GDP per capita and that of South Korea for having a meager 1.4 trillion USD purchasing power, but if either of those countries are gone, what do you think will happen to China, when those two countries constitute 30-40% of China's market?
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Not India, only S Korea. It is a great economical power, but not a super power. It has 1/14 of US GDP, that's not even close to "domination"
All your arguments still prove that they are economically great powers, still not superpowers.
Morgia:
*notes to herself* never leave Ace alone with a german keyboard...
about non-dominant culture: have you ever noticed that most of Europe has basically the same culture with just a few local differences... and that christianity-influenced culture (based on European conquering and settlement stuff back in the days) is now the most dominant in the whole world? *just pointing out*
darkjedi:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:58:47 AM ---Eh..... no.
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Yeah, right. Remove any of them from the GM, and see what happens. Their economic interests reach everywhere in the world, and they have the means to completely protect those interests, relatively speaking. Therefore they are economic superpowers. What's wrong with trying to distinguish a full superpower (U.S.) from an economic or political superpower? (We have a lot here; various members of the E.U., Russia, China, Japan, and a few from the G20)
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:58:47 AM ---And no, Germany is not a super power in either aspect.
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If we divide E.U. into its member states Germany will have 3rd largest market share in the world... what do you think is gonna happen if Germany disintegrates?
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:58:47 AM ---Yeah, they made EU because they are not superpowers on their own. In a union however, the economy is bigger then the US one making it the dominant one in the world. Still, we are talking about countries, not unions so EU is irrelevant.
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I'm only telling you the extent of Germany's influence with regards to world economy. Germany is a major driving force of the world economy precisely because it's a very big major member of E.U. Germany's international trade revenue reaches 90% of China's.
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:58:47 AM ---Not India, only S Korea. It is a great economical power, but not a super power. It has 1/14 of US GDP, that's not even close to "domination"
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Yeah right, when S.Korea's share in the Western market is many times bigger than India's... S.Korea don't have the means to 'dominate', because they can't enforce their strategic interests through military or political means. (neither do most other economic superpowers except U.S.; Russia can't do it militarily, Japan can't do it politically nor militarily; and individually E.U. can't do anything; but India and China can protect their economic interests militarily even though their political influence is very minimal) But economically they can assert great pressure that causes more than 'fluctuations'. Our conflicts arise precisely because you use the GDP comparison between the US and South Korea as an argument for saying that South Korea is only an economic great power whose un-cooperation (why isn't there an English word like this?) in the global market can be forgiven.
--- Quote from: AceHigh on July 13, 2009, 08:58:47 AM ---All your arguments still prove that they are economically great powers, still not superpowers.
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Nah. I accept that neither China nor Japan nor India nor South Korea nor Russia nor anyone who's not U.S. are superpowers, but since you use Wikipedia articles with quality issues as reference we are having a problem reaching a common conclusion. I'm giving you definition that's not in the Wikipedia to differentiate full superpowers and great powers from individual superpowers and great powers, and there's nothing wrong with that, because it serves a purpose, right? China and Russia and E.U. are a 'great power' by Wikipedia standards, but by mine, (and a few million others') they are more than mere 'great powers'. Economically and politically, they are superpowers.
Besides, in my definition, there is no 'great power'; there's only the 'global superpower' and 'regional superpower', unless my translations of Korean definitions is mistaken.
About the European culture: Aside from a few countries who survived the World War II on their own (Britain, France, Sweden, Spain, etc.) most Europe countries are copycats of either U.S. or Soviets with a few individual differences. That's what someone I trust who went to work in Europe and U.S. and Russia few years ago has described to me. I myself hadn't been there yet.
He hadn't been to Norway, though, so I could be wrong about Norway's cultural power, but he generally agrees that Germany doesn't really look that different from U.S. nor U.K. nor Russia in a national level.
Sosseres:
--- Quote from: darkjedi on July 13, 2009, 09:33:02 AM ---an economic great power whose un-cooperation (why isn't there an English word like this?) in the global market can be forgiven.
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http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/cooperation
Antonyms: blockage, delay, encumbrance, handicap, hindrance, obstruction, prevention, stoppage, opposition
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