Intel kicking AMD to the curb?

[fohfoh]

the I7 expensive? Only if you get above the I7 250. The 220 and 240 are very mainstream prices with as alittle as 200 euro's for a core.

The processor itself isn't that expensive but configure a whole system. The last time I did that, the i7 system is $200 more than the AMD system.

Because of the mobo.

Try building an AMD computer with a socket F processor... It'll make you want to kick babies.
(Although in defence of socket F, you're required to buy a workstation board which supports 2x Quad core AMDs. Damn things start at about 300 USD for the mobo. I just ended up giving away the Barcelona Processor I had and went back to the drawing board.)

Phenom isn't bad. Though I'd rather try tweaking a C2D or an intel quad core... AFAIK the only difference really (that a NORMAL consumer can find) at similar clock speeds and cores, AMD runs hotter than intel. I honestly don't see too much difference in lets say a laptop with a Turion X64 ish area? @ 2.0 GHz is that much different than a T3400 or T6400 @ 2.0 GHz.

Desktops might be different though... but we're talking REGULAR consumers. The ones who think internet is fast if they can play a youtube video without waiting or "load facebook fast".

[IceRiccy]

If i would use a Motherboard ready for I7 cores I would go with an asus

P6T6 WS revolution. Its a decent board. costs around 300 bucks.
Add in 6 GB of corsair memory Triple channel and your at 100 bucks
+ the cheapest i7, your looking at 200-250

so all in all 650 for the main parts other then the Gpu. count atleast 200 for the gpu and your looking at 850 euro's for a system, minus the hard drives, cd/dvd player, Case and cooler fans.. If i count all that in, im looking at a small 1100 euro for a computer. Wich is btw what i spend mostly on building a new one.

[Tatsujin]

If i would use a Motherboard ready for I7 cores I would go with an asus

P6T6 WS revolution. Its a decent board. costs around 300 bucks.
Add in 6 GB of corsair memory Triple channel and your at 100 bucks
+ the cheapest i7, your looking at 200-250

so all in all 650 for the main parts other then the Gpu. count atleast 200 for the gpu and your looking at 850 euro's for a system, minus the hard drives, cd/dvd player, Case and cooler fans.. If i count all that in, im looking at a small 1100 euro for a computer. Wich is btw what i spend mostly on building a new one.

I'm actually thinking of building a new computer to screw around with. Core 2 Duo processor, 8GB (same as the one I purchased, extremely cheap and super fast) and one video card. I don't think I'll spend this money anytime soon until next year or so.

[AceD]

i have an i7 and p6t deluxe v2 - and theres no chance in hell i would swap for an amd processor, intel just kills amd in all areas atmo

[fohfoh]

i have an i7 and p6t deluxe v2 - and theres no chance in hell i would swap for an amd processor, intel just kills amd in all areas atmo

And I have an i7 "toy" as well. It's good, but not worth the price. I'm going to build a C2D or a quad. Not really looking into an AMD though. Not yet at least.

[AceD]

i have an i7 and p6t deluxe v2 - and theres no chance in hell i would swap for an amd processor, intel just kills amd in all areas atmo

And I have an i7 "toy" as well. It's good, but not worth the price. I'm going to build a C2D or a quad. Not really looking into an AMD though. Not yet at least.

the 920 is worth the price imo, the ones above are overpriced

[Lupin]

I'm actually thinking of building a new computer to screw around with. Core 2 Duo processor, 8GB (same as the one I purchased, extremely cheap and super fast) and one video card. I don't think I'll spend this money anytime soon until next year or so.

Go with i7 instead. LGA 775 upgrade path is over. This is actually the main reason why I'm sticking with AMD for now. i7 boards are still quite expensive. Building a Core 2 machine while much cheaper has no more upgrades. AM2+ boards can use AM3 procs.

[fohfoh]

i have an i7 and p6t deluxe v2 - and theres no chance in hell i would swap for an amd processor, intel just kills amd in all areas atmo

And I have an i7 "toy" as well. It's good, but not worth the price. I'm going to build a C2D or a quad. Not really looking into an AMD though. Not yet at least.

the 920 is worth the price imo, the ones above are overpriced

I was playing with an i7 920. 1300 or so CAD after everything (purchased in February) I got rid of vista and I'm running windows server 2008 on it. (@#^&%@#$&^@#%$ 900 CAD for the software). Yes, I have an i7 as a server... but it's not mine. I did some computer consulting, and the company wanted to spend 1200 bucks on a E5200 processor server from dell... Those "servers" are literally computers from 5 years ago, double the price, and with a server badge. HELL it doesn't even come with a server OS. I told the company if they really needed the tech people from dell in case it died. (Not allowing me to build a server). To buy an almost gamer level computer for the same price. That's what the i7 "Toy" was. XPS (dunno what number, I think it was a 595)

[kyanwan]

Benefiting consumers is only a bonus, every corporation's primary concern is its own profit.

Of course it is, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to step down on consumers any way possible. They can and will still make plenty of money even if they wouldn't use such dirty measures.

They don't count 1-2-3 then turn around and shoot. Get real.

Now that sounds like you think I want the whole market to be 100% controlled and thats not true at all... I just don't think that compeletely everything is acceptable. Intel gave price reducements from their products to companies that refused to use AMDs products wich is like bribing them to embargo AMD... and that goes beyond the line of whats allowed and whats not imo. You can try to trip your competitor a little, just not in every possible way. The perfect situation of course would be where the competition happens purely on who has the best price/quality while the companies still make solid profits, but even if that is compeletely unreachable does it mean we shouldn't even try to get closer to it?

You're doing it all wrong.  Want to know how you fight fanboys?  

Facts.  

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=45&p2=88

You get: 20% processing edge over the Phenom II Black if you run an i7 Extreme.

Let me give you an idea what a 20% boost in performance equates to:

* 60 FPS framerate will become 72 FPS.    80 FPS will become 96 FPS.  
* A file that takes 20 seconds to compress will now take 16.
* A video that takes 5 minutes to encode will now take 4.  ( Oh, encoding.   I do that all the time. )
* A database query that takes 5 seconds will now take 4.   Similarly, one that takes 10 will only take 8.  

Wow.   That's so awesome.   In the extra couple seconds I gain, I can start to fap, stroke my dick once, then get back to my work.  

For this 20% boost in performance, you pay:

Intel i7 Extreme: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115200  $1000

AMD: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=45&p2=88 $215

These are the two chips in that competition.  

20% performance gain, for a 400% price difference.   How do these numbers add up?   Is it justified to pay the price of 4 systems, to get the performance of one?   Would you rather have a ROOM FULL OF PCS, THAT OPERATE 20% slower - or a single PC.   You can have a fucking lanparty, or a fapfest.  Your choice ( I know you picked Intel. )   Or, we can put $1000.00 worth of CPU hardware up against each-other.   You know who would win in that competition?  AMD, hands down.   You'd have the processing power of 4 AMDs for the price of 1 Intel.  Dollar for dollar - you'd have: 4 Intel cores, and 4 fake cores (virtual is another word for fake, my friend.) - up against 16 AMD cores, and zero fake cores.

Or even better yet - for the price that Intel i7 - you can buy a Phenom 2 - and a pair of Geforce 285GTXs / 2GB each - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130486

Now, picture the field adjusted - add 2mb cache to the AMD - you know - to even the playing field.   What will happen?

How much do you know about CPU architecture, d00d?   Can your knowledge compare to my computer science degree and electrical engineering knowledge - or are you just so smart, you transcend actual understanding of the workings of CPUs?

[ Edited: I had a coffee.   My brain started working normally - so I cleaned up my post ... a little.....   ^_^ ]

[bloody000]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=50&p2=88
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=47&p2=88

And guys, don't even think about overclocking or your computer will explode instantly.

[kyanwan]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.

So, double the price of the intel.   Your argument is moot.

-----

But even further - if you have hardware, that there is no application in existence that can really give it a challenge ... why in the hell would you want to overclock?   Why would you need to?    ( other than e-peen & bragging rights. )

[bloody000]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.
So, double the price of the intel.   Your argument is moot.
-----
But even further - if you have hardware, that there is no application in existence that can really give it a challenge ... why in the hell would you want to overclock?   Why would you need to?    ( other than e-peen & bragging rights. )

The expert has spoken.

[relic2279]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.

So, double the price of the intel.

Overclocking does NOT halve the lifespan of your processor. It does shorten it, and to what extent is based on how much you overclock it. If you are running a stable processor with an overclock and temps are under control, you can easily get 4-5+ years.

What enthusiast that knows enough to overclock would hang onto an outdated processor for that long? Your point is moot.

I'd suggest heading over to overclock.net and reading up a bit on their forums for specifics. My e6400 has been OC'd to 3Ghz on air for over 2 years now without a single hiccup.

[Arveene]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.

So, double the price of the intel.   Your argument is moot.

-----

But even further - if you have hardware, that there is no application in existence that can really give it a challenge ... why in the hell would you want to overclock?   Why would you need to?    ( other than e-peen & bragging rights. )

Considering the i7 has only been out for half a year, I doubt there is ANY reliable evidence pointing to overclocking halfing the life of your hardware. Overclocking won't directly affect the lifetime hardware, it's HEAT. Increased temperature is usually a result of overclocking, but with the proper cooling and setup you'll be fine. Going overboard will shorten it's lifespan a ton, but if you know what you're doing you can get a good overclock without shortening the lifespan of your hardware.

I'm currently running a Core i7 920 with all the bells and whistles for my other hardware in my desktop. I haven't tried overclocking it much yet, just up to about 3.2 on air. I wouldn't suggest clocking much further without at least replacing the stock cooler if not liquid cooling.

My HTPC is currently running with an AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ stock speeds. Yeah, it's overboard but some anime encodes don't play well with DXVA. It can also double for a 2nd gaming PC if a friend visits or something. I'd have to toss in a video card because the IGP on the Gigabyte mobo probably won't be able to handle it.

Having run with both a Core i7 920 and this the Phenom II X4 955, I prefer the i7. It's just so easy to overclock it's not even funny. Especially with an EVGA x58 board. Grab the Core i7 Extreme Edition and it's even easier to OC.

[kyanwan]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.

So, double the price of the intel.

What enthusiast that knows enough to overclock would hang onto an outdated processor for that long? Your point is moot.

Flipping a switch or changing your multiplier in BIOS isn't exactly computer science.

OK, so it doesn't "halve" the life of your equipment per-se.   To get any BIG boosts, you will need to do an extreme overclock.  

These "overclocks" that people do of, 5, 10%, 15%, even 20% - those are pointless.   What's your performance bonus going to hit?   Why bother?

25% or 30% instead of 20%?  Is it worth it to put the extra strain on your hardware, to get an extra 5% or 10% out of it?  

Put it this way - people who buy hardware, will buy the thing that's good, and cheap.   Now, let's head on over to that valve hardware survey that's done all the time.   ( hah ) what's the percentage of people who swap out their hardware every 6 months, year, whatever - like, 1-5%.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/

( So out of all of us here, only 1 has this "good hardware" we're talking about.  Even me -lol- I've got a few old Amd X2's.   Why?   Because I upgrade RAM & GPU based on my personal needs, not based on who I need to impress with screenshots so I can join their WoW lardasses fap club. )  

This user - likes performance.  The kind where I never get a BSOD, hiccup, failure, error.   I compute failsafe (*or should I say, fail resistant.)   Overclocking, is something not in my vocabulary.   I leave that to fools.   ( like the type of fool who considers an extra 5 FPS - and other things the human eye is incapable of seeing, or the mind is incapable of processing - a "sizable gain". )

( This would be the same person buying into 64-BIT HD ULTRA-LOSSLESS AUDIO when Creative decides to release it - and pay $500 for it on top of it all.  Even though, your brain & ears can only handle up to 24-Bit quality.   )

---

So - when looking at Intel's low-ass offerings vs the thing they get you up the ass for - (i7 - the so-aptly-coined emergency edition, where they slapped on so much cache it HAS to be good) - what incentive do they have to lock the multiplier?   Zero.

---

But, what is pathetic here, is that such a piece of pure steaming shit like the Phenom can come so close in performance to Intel, while being 1/5 of the price.   That's pathetic.   That's shameful.

[Tatsujin]

Overclocking halves the life of your hardware.

So, double the price of the intel.

What enthusiast that knows enough to overclock would hang onto an outdated processor for that long? Your point is moot.

Flipping a switch or changing your multiplier in BIOS isn't exactly computer science.

OK, so it doesn't "halve" the life of your equipment per-se.   To get any BIG boosts, you will need to do an extreme overclock.  

These "overclocks" that people do of, 5, 10%, 15%, even 20% - those are pointless.   What's your performance bonus going to hit?   Why bother?

25% or 30% instead of 20%?  Is it worth it to put the extra strain on your hardware, to get an extra 5% or 10% out of it?  

Put it this way - people who buy hardware, will buy the thing that's good, and cheap.   Now, let's head on over to that valve hardware survey that's done all the time.   ( hah ) what's the percentage of people who swap out their hardware every 6 months, year, whatever - like, 1-5%.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/

( So out of all of us here, only 1 has this "good hardware" we're talking about.  Even me -lol- I've got a few old Amd X2's.   Why?   Because I upgrade RAM & GPU based on my personal needs, not based on who I need to impress with screenshots so I can join their WoW lardasses fap club. )  

This user - likes performance.  The kind where I never get a BSOD, hiccup, failure, error.   I compute failsafe (*or should I say, fail resistant.)   Overclocking, is something not in my vocabulary.   I leave that to fools.   ( like the type of fool who considers an extra 5 FPS - and other things the human eye is incapable of seeing, or the mind is incapable of processing - a "sizable gain". )

( This would be the same person buying into 64-BIT HD ULTRA-LOSSLESS AUDIO when Creative decides to release it - and pay $500 for it on top of it all.  Even though, your brain & ears can only handle up to 24-Bit quality.   )

---

So - when looking at Intel's low-ass offerings vs the thing they get you up the ass for - (i7 - the so-aptly-coined emergency edition, where they slapped on so much cache it HAS to be good) - what incentive do they have to lock the multiplier?   Zero.

---

But, what is pathetic here, is that such a piece of pure steaming shit like the Phenom can come so close in performance to Intel, while being 1/5 of the price.   That's pathetic.   That's shameful.

Alright so my Quad 2 Core is at 2.4Ghz, I want to overclock it to 3.2Ghz ... would that make a difference for encoding, converting stuff, and playing 1080p flawlessly? (I get 1 to 0.5 second lag whenever I skip a scene or go backwards, not when playing the video).

[fohfoh]

I think something is missing here. A i7 920 sits at around what was it 2.66GHz? Now, if we OCed it to 3.0 let's say. It's probably going to be better. However, going into the 3.5-4 Ghz range... NOW we're getting silly. (I don't care if it's stable, we now walk into Kyan's argument of e-peen)

HOWEVER, anything that sits in the 2 Range area that can be OCed into the 2.8-3 Range stably probably should consider it. 3 is probably the highest level you really need.

Also we realize that a 5-25% increase in power isn't necessarily the same in performance. Resolved bottlenecks (assuming you can bottle neck what you currently have) cause more information to transfer. It looks like an exponential initial boost, then an exponential incremental decrease in performance. (You know, that graph that looks like the upside down "J")

AFAIK, most laptops are overclocked before being pushed into the market. I recall buying my computer back in the day. T7200 @ 2.0 GHz C2D was GODLY for a laptop at that time (costing about $1500 CAD) Nowadays, Friggen T3400 and lower ALL run at 2.0 GHz. It's stupid. You know your system is going to crap out. ESPECIALLY since it's in a laptop.

[kyanwan]

The kind of overclocking I consider worthwhile - is the stuff people did with the original athlons.  Elaborate cooling setups that run at around $100-200 - including nice water pipes with ferrofluid vs water, peltier coolers - etc.    50% minimum is what I consider "overclocking" into worthwhile territory.    Anything in the 20s and less - is just using your hardware smart - not - overclocking.

This is like running your old P1-100 at 133, just because it could.  ( 30% speed increase using nothing but crappy stuff that looks like your northbridge heatsink.   That chip was pretty good. )

These "safe" overclocks, that's not overclocking - that's being a wuss.      It's so safe - that some manufactures "pre-overclock" the stuff and slap a lifetime warranty on it.  

---

Laptops are trash, imo.   That thing's destined for the trash even before you buy it.   Only thing I'd ever buy in a laptop - is one under $400 - something I can throw up in the air, hit it with a baseball bat - and feel great after the fact.  ( or sell it for parts on ebay to some chump who repairs em. )

---

Ok, +1 for Intel.  How come nobody else found this?   

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3551&p=8
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103674

Q9550 = $219
X4 955 = $215

So they have offerings in the same alley, that are slightly better. 

[bloody000]

How come you didn't read my post?


----------------
***:
a. Overclocking is about bragging rights and e-penis.
b. You don't need the extra performance. Even if you do it's not worth it.
c. Moderate OC is not OC and is for pussies. Real man does Extreme OC(TM).

Make up your fucking mind and try again.

[relic2279]

   50% minimum is what I consider "overclocking" into worthwhile territory.  

Well. My e6400 is dual core chip and stock 2.0Ghz. It's running at 3Ghz on air cooling, at safe temps (thanks to nice fans in my case) for over 2 years.

That's a 50% increase in performance with no additional cost to me. I'm getting much more for my money. And yes, Overclocking has a very noticeable effect. Especially when I'm encoding vids or playing HD content. I can't play HD content on my PC/TV without it being choppy. Overclocking fixed that.  (Probably would be helpful in games, but I haven't been playing any recently)