Author Topic: China and Russia stand together  (Read 5045 times)

Offline AceHigh

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2009, 02:27:01 PM »
Darkjedi: Way to long post, didn't bother reading the last one.

Reap: do you believe in world peace too? Hippies....

But I agree mostly with darkjedi here: war keeps whole nations motivated. After wars nations usually act on behalf of greater good and not for self benefit. See what happened to Roman society after many hundred of years of domination? Decadency which doomed them in the end. With wars people are kept on their toes and are motivated to do something for their country.

As for inventions: lazyness and fear. Those two are really important factors in the world of inventions. Lazyness is the biggest driving force during times of peace, but in war, fear really speeds up innovative thinking.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2009, 02:31:34 PM »
Cutting down on war is not the best way to 'save' people. Some people like Hitler deserved to be humiliated, and at that time, the best way to do it was war. Teaching him Christian ethics wouldn't have done anything very nice.

Yes surely Hitler wouldn't have listened to anything and he sure as hell had to be taken away from his throne. I can't really imagine any alternative way to that either than war seeing how he brought it to the whole Europe without them wanting it... I can't really see an alternative for preventing him from annexing the whole world under his tyrannical rule except war either I give you that... yet you seem to forget the whole chain of events that got him into power in the first place... if there wasn't for war he would've never got in the power in the first place... and there 45 million people wouldn't have had to die just to get one madman out of power... war only provokes more war... very nice solution indeed.

Very significant. I just can't describe aptly in words. As I've said, the best thing about wars and military was the 'drive' that it gave to humans to achieve supremacy. Advancement in rockets, sensors, communications, aviation, navigation, aeronautics, hydraulics, electronics, computers, etc. etc. etc. etc. there are so many things I can mention that I can definitely say will NOT have advanced as much if the world was in a peaceful setting. The problem is that you still won't likely believe me.

And what makes you think we would have all of those even if the star wars project had continued? We cannot advance that much in 100% peaceful world yes, but the difference is not THAT significant... lets see... world war 2 brought us the start of radar technlogy, rocket technology, turbojet airplanes and more knowledge of nuclear technology... of wich of all we would've got without the war with just a few years delay I bet... most of their research was already underway anyway.

Most people who serve the government through the military is by 'choice'.
And that is exactly why I hate and despise them so. They had the choise to avoid it.

We have the Geneva Conventions for protecting human rights in times of war. In most cases, Geneva Conventions are adhered to by officially recognized military organizations, and that's all that matters because basically they are the only ones who have the right to bear arms.

Funny though isn't killing another human being the worst violation of human rights?  ::)

Perfect justification: We were designed and born to do what is most beneficial to us at the expense of others. It's what our genes are made for.

This is true from most of its part. Nobody designed humans though my friend, but we are born to do whatever is most benefical to ourselves no matter the cost. However that is just what we do uncosciously. Consciously we may do however unselflish deeds we want... we don't necessarily consciously think about our own good when we do that, but uncosciously yes. Nobody would for example donate to charity unless it would make them feel somewhat good... or I wouldn't rant about whats wrong with this world unless I would hate to see people suffer... so yes in the end there are no unselflish deeds, but lets not at least be "consciously selflish" all that much shall we not?  ;)

They don't. They do it because they chose to.
Yes... chose to obey the government who told them to kill... what would they do that unless anybody would declare war?

Someone has to do it, because people like you won't.

Who said it needs to be done in the first place?


people like Hussein and Osama Bin Laden's cronies deserve to get their ass kicked, and the coalition forces did the job for you.
Please tell me why people like George W. Bush, Barrack Obama, Vladimir Putin, Dmitri Medvedev or Hu Jintao are any better than they are? They are all just mass murderers none better than the other.

Dunno, wouldn't you kill Kim Jong-Il yourself if you knew that doing such will not create bad side-effects, and instead benefit your family or yourself?.
I would inprison him instead.

and if you don't kill even if it is required of you to do so, then some other religion taught you things that aren't good for you. Humans are meant to kill if it's necessary.
I wonder since when have humanism and sense of morality been classified as religions... I certainly missed that... and by the way humans are pack animals... so no we are not really meant to kill each other...

Okay. I'm not going to try to dissuade from your religious beliefs anymore lol...

I think you have mistaken something... I am not religious person at all.

Reap: do you believe in world peace too? Hippies....
No I do not believe in world peace... not in the current world anyway. That could be acchieved, but the process would be slow... and nobody is willing to start it unfortunately.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 02:42:45 PM by Reape »

Offline mgz

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2009, 02:52:12 PM »
Cutting down on war is not the best way to 'save' people. Some people like Hitler deserved to be humiliated, and at that time, the best way to do it was war. Teaching him Christian ethics wouldn't have done anything very nice.

Yes surely Hitler wouldn't have listened to anything and he sure as hell had to be taken away from his throne. I can't really imagine any alternative way to that either than war seeing how he brought it to the whole Europe without them wanting it... I can't really see an alternative for preventing him from annexing the whole world under his tyrannical rule except war either I give you that... yet you seem to forget the whole chain of events that got him into power in the first place... if there wasn't for war he would've never got in the power in the first place... and there 45 million people wouldn't have had to die just to get one madman out of power... war only provokes more war... very nice solution indeed.

Very significant. I just can't describe aptly in words. As I've said, the best thing about wars and military was the 'drive' that it gave to humans to achieve supremacy. Advancement in rockets, sensors, communications, aviation, navigation, aeronautics, hydraulics, electronics, computers, etc. etc. etc. etc. there are so many things I can mention that I can definitely say will NOT have advanced as much if the world was in a peaceful setting. The problem is that you still won't likely believe me.

And what makes you think we would have all of those even if the star wars project had continued? We cannot advance that much in 100% peaceful world yes, but the difference is not THAT significant... lets see... world war 2 brought us the start of radar technlogy, rocket technology, turbojet airplanes and more knowledge of nuclear technology... of wich of all we would've got without the war with just a few years delay I bet... most of their research was already underway anyway.

Most people who serve the government through the military is by 'choice'.
And that is exactly why I hate and despise them so. They had the choise to avoid it.

We have the Geneva Conventions for protecting human rights in times of war. In most cases, Geneva Conventions are adhered to by officially recognized military organizations, and that's all that matters because basically they are the only ones who have the right to bear arms.

Funny though isn't killing another human being the worst violation of human rights?  ::)

Perfect justification: We were designed and born to do what is most beneficial to us at the expense of others. It's what our genes are made for.

This is true from most of its part. Nobody designed humans though my friend, but we are born to do whatever is most benefical to ourselves no matter the cost. However that is just what we do uncosciously. Consciously we may do however unselflish deeds we want... we don't necessarily consciously think about our own good when we do that, but uncosciously yes. Nobody would for example donate to charity unless it would make them feel somewhat good... or I wouldn't rant about whats wrong with this world unless I would hate to see people suffer... so yes in the end there are no unselflish deeds, but lets not at least be "consciously selflish" all that much shall we not?  ;)

They don't. They do it because they chose to.
Yes... chose to obey the government who told them to kill... what would they do that unless anybody would declare war?

Someone has to do it, because people like you won't.

Who said it needs to be done in the first place?


people like Hussein and Osama Bin Laden's cronies deserve to get their ass kicked, and the coalition forces did the job for you.
Please tell me why people like George W. Bush, Barrack Obama, Vladimir Putin, Dmitri Medvedev or Hu Jintao are any better than they are? They are all just mass murderers none better than the other.

Dunno, wouldn't you kill Kim Jong-Il yourself if you knew that doing such will not create bad side-effects, and instead benefit your family or yourself?.
I would inprison him instead.

and if you don't kill even if it is required of you to do so, then some other religion taught you things that aren't good for you. Humans are meant to kill if it's necessary.
I wonder since when have humanism and sense of morality been classified as religions... I certainly missed that... and by the way humans are pack animals... so no we are not really meant to kill each other...

Okay. I'm not going to try to dissuade from your religious beliefs anymore lol...

I think you have mistaken something... I am not religious person at all.

Reap: do you believe in world peace too? Hippies....
No I do not believe in world peace... not in the current world anyway. That could be acchieved, but the process would be slow... and nobody is willing to start it unfortunately.
it actually wasnt WW1 itself that allowed hitler to rise to power. But rather the peace negotiations and later treaty of versailles that was directly at fault for crippling germany and driving it into a depression which is what allowed hitler and friends to come to power.

So if anything you can blame peace you dirty hippy

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2009, 02:55:47 PM »


it actually wasnt WW1 itself that allowed hitler to rise to power. But rather the peace negotiations and later treaty of versailles that was directly at fault for crippling germany and driving it into a depression which is what allowed hitler and friends to come to power.

So if anything you can blame peace you dirty hippy

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but without world war I there wouldn't have been treaty of versailles to cripple Germany either?
Also what makes you think I'm a hippy? Just because I value human lives enough to hate war and those who pursue it does not make me one.

Offline mgz

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2009, 03:47:23 PM »
arguing a cause and effect can go infinitely to the point of mean blaming god or laws of physics for the cause of all our problems.

Simple fact remains it was the PEACE TREATY not the war itself that resulted in hitlers rise.

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2009, 04:13:44 PM »
arguing a cause and effect can go infinitely to the point of mean blaming god or laws of physics for the cause of all our problems.

Simple fact remains it was the PEACE TREATY not the war itself that resulted in hitlers rise.

Lets look at this your way then... the terms of peace were ridiculous, but the peace itself is not to blame... or do you think that they should've just killed each other back then? The same events would have happened in different ways led by different assholes anyway. The only winning move would've been not to wage war at all.

Offline mgz

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2009, 04:37:56 PM »
there is no way for us to tell if any of it would have or wouldnt have happened, regardless of WW1

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2009, 04:55:32 PM »
Not for sure of course, but I think it would've been highly more unlikely.

Offline mgz

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2009, 05:30:45 PM »
you cant even begin to speculate

darkjedi

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2009, 09:22:18 PM »
Reape:

If we didn't conduct two world wars before, we would all have died by now due to a new world war that involved highly advanced weapons of mass destruction, because then we wouldn't have known the sufferings that world wars could deliver. Fortunately, humans are meant to learn the best when they suffer through the calamities, and we did learn lesson really well from our two previous calamities. In the end, war's good for you, and it will even save you from starvation 30 years later. Your opinion is secondary to the proliferation of the whole species.

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2009, 09:50:20 PM »
If we didn't conduct two world wars before, we would all have died by now due to a new world war that involved highly advanced weapons of mass destruction, because then we wouldn't have known the sufferings that world wars could deliver.
That is a possibility yes, but I don't see much improvement. After seeing exactly how much of a tragedy war is in the two world wars we still continue to pursue it instead of trying to find alternatives.

and it will even save you from starvation 30 years later.
Millions of people die to starvation each year mostly because the money that could be used for food is used on weapons. Tell that to them.

Your opinion is secondary to the proliferation of the whole species.
Maybe, but then again its already happening. Your two world wars didn't stop it. Are we running out of room? Well maybe we should teach a few idiots how to use a condom instead of starting to kill each other.

darkjedi

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2009, 10:03:58 PM »
Reape, I love you. Now I have to go to school, so sit tight and wait for me...




To Whom It Concerns: Don't lock this thread lol

Offline AceHigh

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2009, 10:19:03 PM »
Maybe, but then again its already happening. Your two world wars didn't stop it. Are we running out of room? Well maybe we should teach a few idiots how to use a condom instead of starting to kill each other.

Why should we care if Africans are killing each other or using condoms? I mean population is not a big problem in Western world now, actually it's declining. Basically that gives us the right to slay all those 3rd world useless idiots who reproduce at a large rate, lets say for the greater good.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2009, 10:29:55 PM »
Maybe, but then again its already happening. Your two world wars didn't stop it. Are we running out of room? Well maybe we should teach a few idiots how to use a condom instead of starting to kill each other.

Why should we care if Africans are killing each other or using condoms? I mean population is not a big problem in Western world now, actually it's declining. Basically that gives us the right to slay all those 3rd world useless idiots who reproduce at a large rate, lets say for the greater good.

Bleh rather go kill the pope who teaches them how "wrong" using condom is.

Ok lets be a bit more serious: No we don't have the right to kill them for "the greater good" at least as long as alternatives exist. How about we start by commiting suicide if the world is too small for all the people? What... don't feel like dying "for the greater good"? Then don't demand that from others either.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2009, 10:31:37 PM »
What... don't feel like dying "for the greater good"? Then don't demand that from others either.

Yeah, I don't produce 14 children either. So yes, I will demand that they kill off 12 of them. Child soldiers is a great solution.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2009, 10:41:02 PM »
What... don't feel like dying "for the greater good"? Then don't demand that from others either.
Yeah, I don't produce 14 children either. So yes, I will demand that they kill off 12 of them. Child soldiers is a great solution.

They produce 14 children because they're desperately poor my friend. You have the luck to have been born in the rich part of the world so you don't have to do that. If their life conditions would improve after a short while their population boom would start to decrease. The western world was pretty good at making babies after world war 2, but see what happened when we went through a process of development. People have their work to take care of so many couldn't even imagine raising such big family as their grandparents or great grandparents did.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 10:48:01 PM by Reape »

Offline AceHigh

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2009, 11:32:37 PM »
Their own fault for not making their country a good place to live, their population boom is a problem they create however, so why not profit on selling weapons so they can solve it themselves?
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Onibokusu

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2009, 06:55:20 AM »
If that art college had let him in, it wouldn't of mattered if it was peace time or not. It would have never happened.

On the subject of Africans, they should be able to support themselves. They are a race which is killing themselves, despite it being bloody obvious what is causing the death. They breed like rabbits, spreading disease to others. They have children, who inherit the disease, and it never stops.

Most places in the world on the same economic standing point as them are not killing themselves and don't need the support of first world nations.

This is Africa: Civil wars causing starvation, mass disease, no effort to start trading with other nations to gain money and support themselves.

Even if there was world peace, Africa would not be any better off.

Offline Reape

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2009, 07:44:41 AM »
so why not profit on selling weapons so they can solve it themselves?
Who wants their old AK-47s that they got from the Soviets anyway?

On the subject of Africans, they should be able to support themselves. They are a race which is killing themselves, despite it being bloody obvious what is causing the death. They breed like rabbits, spreading disease to others. They have children, who inherit the disease, and it never stops.
The same could be said from the western world. Only exception is that we have something to fight that disease with and/or we aren't religious enough not to use it.

This is Africa: Civil wars causing starvation, mass disease, no effort to start trading with other nations to gain money and support themselves.

Mhm, but whose to blame for that? The imperialist countries taught them to depend on us and then just suddendly left them on their own. Such quick change was not good for them and now we are in the current situation... and we all know what that is. I'm not saying its entirely our fault. Of course the africans themselves have most of the responsibility, but its still partly our fault so lets do what we can... a factory or two there wouldn't surely hurt them. Would benefit us too. Cheaper labor force you see... and the the chinese and indians are going to demand bigger payment soon anyway.

Even if there was world peace, Africa would not be any better off.
Umm... hello? No warlords to kill their people and claim all the resources? Anyway while that is an impossible goal for the time being don't go saying that it wouldn't benefit them.

darkjedi

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Re: China and Russia stand together
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2009, 08:20:14 AM »
I wonder why Iran is richer than half of Africa combined, when it is worse off than Africa. Africa has diamonds, even. Don't they realize how Singapore/Taiwan/Japan/South Korea/EU/Russia/US exploit their diamonds and minerals for their 'high technology'? Can they not exploit them themselves by blackmailing those first countries 'we demand more payments, or we'll not give you diamonds, and if you try to take it by force, we'll fight against you' instead of fighting against condoms lol.

Anyway, to answer my own question of why Iran fluorishes more than Africa:

Iran is much more aggressive than Africa in pursuing its strategic interests.

Aggressiveness is good, hands down.