Author Topic: Kindle 2 - DRM to the extreme. (Read 3508 times)

kyanwan · « **on:** July 26, 2009, 11:30:24 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/technology/companies/27amazon.html

Seems Kindle 2 has DRM - that includes remote delete for titles. I *WAS* thinking of buying this, but now, my respect for this product has gone from 100% to 0%.

They sold copies of Orwell's 1984 - and had some kind of rights problem. The solution? Delete 1984 from *EVERYONE'S* Kindle. What total BS!!!

Needless to say, it's dead to me.

Vent your disappointment!

sdedalus83 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:05:21 AM »

I'd much rather have something along the lines of an archos 7 with a detachable keyboard, a transflective display, running angstrom. The always innovating tablet is pretty cool, but it's too big and doesn't have a transflective display.

The high relative cost, restrictive drm, and very limited hardware killed the e-ink devices for me. Transflective lcds may not be as good as e-ink for books, but they allow the device to be a lot more than just an ebook reader.

iindigo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:38:02 AM »

Apple is rumored to be releasing a 10" tablet at some point during 1Q 2010... it's supposed to basically be like a jumbo iPod touch. Provided its price is (somewhat) reasonable and that the ebook market takes advantage of the app store with it (there are already a ton of iPod touch/iPhone ebooks, so it's not much of a jump), I fully expect it to kill Kindle and its draconian DRM.

I wonder why nobody else has created a highly successful product in that category... it seems like something that could be really useful, ranging from ebooks to a tablet that doctors tote around with them everywhere to a net portal for your recliner.

Pzc · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:44:47 AM »

I do wonder how the use of DRM in both
software and hardware will end. To some
extent it's understandable but being at
the complete mercy of some heartless
organization that'll delete contents as
they please ? No thanks. Not now, not
ever. If there's a choice, that is.

Sosseres · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:36:00 AM »

There are several products in that category, Amazon just has the most famous one. Second most famous is Sony.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644523779
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665245739

Then another one coming:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wired/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501834&objectid=10585984

SirSkyRider · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2009, 07:16:52 AM »

Normally, I prefer paper books to ebooks, but I considered buying one for university studies... having the possibility to search a large textbook is great.

On the other hand, DRM sucks. If you buy a car, you wouldn't want the car company to tell you where to go, which roads you have to take and which navi you should use.

Lupin · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:48:23 PM »

Quote from: SirSkyRider on July 27, 2009, 07:16:52 AM

On the other hand, DRM sucks. If you buy a car, you wouldn't want the car company to tell you where to go, which roads you have to take and which navi you should use.

There's a big difference here. When you buy a car, you OWN it. You can do anything to it because it's yours. When you buy, software, music, ebooks, you LICENSE them, you DON'T OWN them. You can't do anything to it because it's not yours to begin with.

fohfoh · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:52:22 PM »

Quote from: Lupin on July 27, 2009, 12:48:23 PM

Quote from: SirSkyRider on July 27, 2009, 07:16:52 AM
On the other hand, DRM sucks. If you buy a car, you wouldn't want the car company to tell you where to go, which roads you have to take and which navi you should use.
There's a big difference here. When you buy a car, you OWN it. You can do anything to it because it's yours. When you buy, software, music, ebooks, you LICENSE them, you DON'T OWN them. You can't do anything to it because it's not yours to begin with.

It's more like renting imo. A glorified rental contract.

mgz · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:03:16 PM »

Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 12:38:02 AM

Apple is rumored to be releasing a 10" tablet at some point during 1Q 2010... it's supposed to basically be like a jumbo iPod touch. Provided its price is (somewhat) reasonable and that the ebook market takes advantage of the app store with it (there are already a ton of iPod touch/iPhone ebooks, so it's not much of a jump), I fully expect it to kill Kindle and its draconian DRM.

I wonder why nobody else has created a highly successful product in that category... it seems like something that could be really useful, ranging from ebooks to a tablet that doctors tote around with them everywhere to a net portal for your recliner.

and you expect it to be anywhere near 300$ and have no DRM lol apple loves any kind of locking you into their bags of shit they can get

iindigo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:12:38 PM »

Quote from: mgz on July 27, 2009, 01:03:16 PM

Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 12:38:02 AM
Apple is rumored to be releasing a 10" tablet at some point during 1Q 2010... it's supposed to basically be like a jumbo iPod touch. Provided its price is (somewhat) reasonable and that the ebook market takes advantage of the app store with it (there are already a ton of iPod touch/iPhone ebooks, so it's not much of a jump), I fully expect it to kill Kindle and its draconian DRM.

I wonder why nobody else has created a highly successful product in that category... it seems like something that could be really useful, ranging from ebooks to a tablet that doctors tote around with them everywhere to a net portal for your recliner.

and you expect it to be anywhere near 300$ and have no DRM lol apple loves any kind of locking you into their bags of shit they can get

The current iPhone/iPod Touch books have no DRM, so I don't see why any for this new device would (especially if it can run iPhone apps).

As for price, I'm expecting it to be somewhere between $500-$800, at least if it turns out to basically be a netbook with a specially-optimized OS in touchscreen tablet form. Its extra uses beyond book reading justify the price.

Lupin · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:39:05 PM »

Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 01:12:38 PM

The current iPhone/iPod Touch books have no DRM, so I don't see why any for this new device would (especially if it can run iPhone apps).

Yeah, it doesn't have DRM but Apple can remotely remove unwanted apps from your phone.

sdedalus83 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2009, 02:23:07 PM »

If they give it a display which can be comforably read in full sunlight, it might be appealing.

mgz · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2009, 02:26:35 PM »

Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 01:12:38 PM

Quote from: mgz on July 27, 2009, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 12:38:02 AM
Apple is rumored to be releasing a 10" tablet at some point during 1Q 2010... it's supposed to basically be like a jumbo iPod touch. Provided its price is (somewhat) reasonable and that the ebook market takes advantage of the app store with it (there are already a ton of iPod touch/iPhone ebooks, so it's not much of a jump), I fully expect it to kill Kindle and its draconian DRM.

I wonder why nobody else has created a highly successful product in that category... it seems like something that could be really useful, ranging from ebooks to a tablet that doctors tote around with them everywhere to a net portal for your recliner.

and you expect it to be anywhere near 300$ and have no DRM lol apple loves any kind of locking you into their bags of shit they can get

The current iPhone/iPod Touch books have no DRM, so I don't see why any for this new device would (especially if it can run iPhone apps).

As for price, I'm expecting it to be somewhere between $500-$800, at least if it turns out to basically be a netbook with a specially-optimized OS in touchscreen tablet form. Its extra uses beyond book reading justify the price.

its doesnt have DRM literally, but they can basically delete any and everything from your phone and not give you money or justify its deletion when ever they want. They also run their app store like nazis and try their best to lock every item that is on the phones down like its a super max prison.

So while no, there isnt DRM on it, it is a phone that is barely yours.

kyanwan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2009, 05:43:59 PM »

The state of tech is suck. I'm really dying to have an e-book reader ... as I've got TONS of tech crap I've gotta read.

Sad thing is - the best reader I've found yet is a PocketPC - or a laptop.

It's so bad, I'm even considering a tablet pc.

A nice thin large-display ebook reader - would be sweet as hell ... but I see nothing coming up that won't be total ass.

Sucks. No more hardware companies for devices like this - we've got publisher-manufacturers now. And that really bites.

dankles · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2009, 10:12:01 PM »

Quote from: kyanwan on July 26, 2009, 11:30:24 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/technology/companies/27amazon.html

Seems Kindle 2 has DRM - that includes remote delete for titles. I *WAS* thinking of buying this, but now, my respect for this product has gone from 100% to 0%.

They sold copies of Orwell's 1984 - and had some kind of rights problem. The solution? Delete 1984 from *EVERYONE'S* Kindle. What total BS!!!

Needless to say, it's dead to me.

Vent your disappointment!

HELL YES!! Someone else that actually cares about stuff like this!!! Thank you Kyanwan!!
I heard about this from the defective-by-design mailing list.
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

EDIT:
I'd buy a kindle if i could re-install my own linux system onto it. The book like feel of it is really nice.

EDIT2:

Quote from: mgz on July 27, 2009, 02:26:35 PM

Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: mgz on July 27, 2009, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: iindigo on July 27, 2009, 12:38:02 AM
Apple is rumored to be releasing a 10" tablet at some point during 1Q 2010... it's supposed to basically be like a jumbo iPod touch. Provided its price is (somewhat) reasonable and that the ebook market takes advantage of the app store with it (there are already a ton of iPod touch/iPhone ebooks, so it's not much of a jump), I fully expect it to kill Kindle and its draconian DRM.

I wonder why nobody else has created a highly successful product in that category... it seems like something that could be really useful, ranging from ebooks to a tablet that doctors tote around with them everywhere to a net portal for your recliner.

and you expect it to be anywhere near 300$ and have no DRM lol apple loves any kind of locking you into their bags of shit they can get

The current iPhone/iPod Touch books have no DRM, so I don't see why any for this new device would (especially if it can run iPhone apps).

As for price, I'm expecting it to be somewhere between $500-$800, at least if it turns out to basically be a netbook with a specially-optimized OS in touchscreen tablet form. Its extra uses beyond book reading justify the price.

its doesnt have DRM literally, but they can basically delete any and everything from your phone and not give you money or justify its deletion when ever they want. They also run their app store like nazis and try their best to lock every item that is on the phones down like its a super max prison.

So while no, there isnt DRM on it, it is a phone that is barely yours.

That is DRM, just in a different form.
MS Vista and google android also has this remote trigger to disable stuff too, just for the record.

Lupin · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:46:37 PM »

Do people get the joke that what Amazon just did is a "book burning" and that their reader is called a "Kindle"? Add to that the fact that one of the books they deleted is the "big brother" book?

kyanwan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2009, 07:31:17 AM »

o.O

The irony. We should stick to our telescreens.

-----------

But yeah, I've been looking for a quality ebook reader. I love having a nice reader, where I can tote around a hundred books - and read what I feel like. Most of my books - are a couple pounds, big - bulky - over a thousand pages. I can't exactly lug around, say, 3 books - and "Oh, I think I'll read this one ..." -

I've lost good, expensive books that way.

I tried PocketPC for that reason. It was OK - but - the screen is so tight, you can only get a paragraph or two in there, with a readable font.

Even the best displays - are tiny. A pocket sized reader - bout half the size or less of a compact laptop (eg: a paperback book) - is ideal. My picture of this reader, was Kindle. But ... The Kindle. It's ruined. ( yeah, that's how I feel. )

mgz · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:08:06 PM »

my only question is are the people being refunded for the book

Lupin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:15:53 PM »

Quote from: mgz on July 28, 2009, 12:08:06 PM

my only question is are the people being refunded for the book

They refunded the people whose has copies of the Orwell books that got deleted.

mgz · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2009, 12:18:35 PM »

then to be honest i could really care less lol