Discussion Forums > Anime Discussions
English Dubs
Borror0:
--- Quote from: zrdb on August 15, 2009, 08:45:26 PM ---"Good English dubs are the exception rather than the rule." On really now?
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Ya, really.
Tatsujin:
--- Quote from: Borror0 on August 15, 2009, 09:25:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: zrdb on August 15, 2009, 08:45:26 PM ---"Good English dubs are the exception rather than the rule." On really now?
--- End quote ---
Ya, really.
--- End quote ---
Just proves how full of shit English Dubs are. HAAAAAAAAAAAH AHAHAHAHAHAH!
Original > Everything else. Thanks for reading.
Zalis116:
--- Quote from: Anoerph ---He would always repeat the stupid sounding sentences and laugh (boy would he have had a blast seeing "people die when they are killed" in FSN
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For the record, I didn't find your post elitist. But I don't think subtitles would've sounded any less stupid to someone determined to hate on anime. Ever try reading subtitles out loud? Most sub lines don't sound too cool, either. Incidentally, if he'd heard the FSN dub, the line would've been "If people are hurt badly enough, they die. That's the way it should be."
--- Quote from: Onibokusu ---This was true, about 4 years ago. Most dub haters live in the past, and not in the here and now.
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--- Quote from: kurandoinu ---You think? One Piece was also hacked to pieces for that dub. Lolly anyone?
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Yes, the old 4kids One Piece dub was a hackjob, but by all accounts the new Funimation dub is perfectly good. It's being released on uncut DVDs with all cigarettes, guns, and other "mature" elements uncensored.
--- Quote from: Borror0 ---Except that his not what he said.
He was talking about better voice actors. Hollywood actors are actors; not voice actors. There is a significant different.
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Yeah, you're right. It's just that when most people talk about "anime VAs suck, they should get some real actors," they're usually referring to A-list celebrities.
--- Quote from: Havok10K ---it really hard to find such anime that dubbed with heart, name at least 1 anime that had that heart of the character,
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I'll name a few: Fruits Basket, Rumbling Hearts, Shuffle, Koi Kaze, Kanon 2006, Samurai Champloo, Fullmetal Alchemist, El-Hazard (even the Japanese producers thought that dub was better), Ouran High School Host Club, Solty Rei, Trinity Blood, Haibane Renmei, Texhnolyze...
--- Quote from: Tatsujin ---it is not original no matter how you slice it and you dice it. Anime's done in Japanese voice acting, and even the feelings that get put into when acting from the ORIGINAL seiyu behind the scenes, original voice acting, original scripts, original whatever else you wanna implement on this. Anime in Japanese voices > English voices. Anime's originally done in Japan (focusing on stuff coming from Japan and developed in Japan).
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Not all original Japanese stories and scripts are outstanding works of creative genius, just like not every US original cartoon, TV show, and movie has top-notch scripts. I've seen a number of shows that are simply more interesting and entertaining in English, regardless of the relative quality of the acting. Among them would be Ghost Stories, Generator Gawl, Magikano, Orphen, Colorful, E's Otherwise, Girls Bravo, Ikki-Tousen, Gokudo, Dai-Guard, and Shrine of the Morning Mist.
And what about shows not set in Japan, like shows that take place in the USA/UK or otherwise international settings? For shows like Chrono Crusade, Baccano, Yugo the Negotiator, Area 88, Noir, Hellsing, Sherlock Hound, and Beck, English can feel more appropriate for the show's characters and atmosphere. And then there's all the sci-fi/fantasy settings like Last Exile, Berserk, Lodoss War, Trigun, etc.
--- Quote ---*Shana dub clip link* Just proves how full of shit English Dubs are. HAAAAAAAAAAAH AHAHAHAHAHAH!
Original > Everything else. Thanks for reading.
--- End quote ---
And what exactly is wrong with that clip, again? Having seen all of that dub, I thought it was pretty good. Once Tabitha St. Germain settled into the role of Shana (that clip was from one of the first eps IIRC), she came pretty close to Rie Kugimiya in many ways. Especially in one melon bread-eating scene towards the middle of the series. Marjorie was hilarious, and I appreciated how Kazumi Yoshida and Hecate actually sounded like... Kazumi Yoshida and Hecate, instead of like Ayako Kawasumi and Mamiko Noto.
Besides, what does one clip from one show prove about English dubs in general? That's like saying, "I saw this fansub with the line 'mass naked child events,' fansub translations are terrible."
And if we accept that "Original > Everything Else," that still doesn't mean that "everything else" is bad.
-----
In general, if you don't want to watch English dubs, feel free not to watch them. Just don't knock 'em till you try 'em. In my experience, some dubs are very good, some are very bad, and most fall somewhere on the spectrum between those extremes.
Aneroph:
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on August 16, 2009, 12:01:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Anoerph ---He would always repeat the stupid sounding sentences and laugh (boy would he have had a blast seeing "people die when they are killed" in FSN
--- End quote ---
For the record, I didn't find your post elitist. But I don't think subtitles would've sounded any less stupid to someone determined to hate on anime. Ever try reading subtitles out loud? Most sub lines don't sound too cool, either. Incidentally, if he'd heard the FSN dub, the line would've been "If people are hurt badly enough, they die. That's the way it should be."
--- End quote ---
For the record, 'People die when they are killed" is exactly the way the line is supposed to be. It appears in the anime and numerous times in the visual novel. It was referring to the fact that (click to show/hide) he had already been injured so many times and so badly that he was, according to all worldly rules, killed and should have died all those times, but something is still keeping him alive. Thus the phrase, people die when they are killed. He was 'killed' many times, but never died People just love to isolate that phrase and use it for humor (even I laughed when I saw before the anime :D)
--- Quote from: Borror0 ---Except that his not what he said.
He was talking about better voice actors. Hollywood actors are actors; not voice actors. There is a significant different.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote --- Yeah, you're right. It's just that when most people talk about "anime VAs suck, they should get some real actors," they're usually referring to A-list celebrities.
--- End quote ---
Maybe my sources are wrong, but the last time I did a check on American voice actors they all stated that voice actors and stage/movie actors have the exact same training. Honestly, actors on stage can't have less emotion in their voices just because they're able to also speak through body language. There's quite a large difference in voice acting quality with anime dubs and movies like 'Up' and 'Ice Age' and 'Toy Story' where A/B-list celebrities do the voices. Japanese movies sound pretty much the same if not worse than anime voices (could be a lack of bad stage actors from Japan though :P)Before anyone says I'm living in the past I should mention that I still watch anime every Saturday night on Cartoon Network in dubs. I may not like the dubs, but I sure as heck like to support the fact that anime is still being played on television as this was the way I found anime, and occasionally I come across a series that looks interesting that I download.
Personally, I've always wanted to see a large scale collaboration between international anime companies to make one grandiose sub anime with characters of different nationality speaking the proper language. American characters have original American voices, Japanese characters have Japanese voices, French characters have french voice etc. with choice of subs for whichever language you speak, or make it story relevant and include translators when the multi-national characters speak with each other. Something like Afro Samurai with (I think) Japanese creators and original English voices was a nice attempt at stepping out of the language box, but it was fail in my book the moment they put the words 'afro' and 'samurai' in the same sentence, and even more so when they cast (motha Fu**ing :D) Samual L. Jackson as the voice.
aznZephyr:
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on August 16, 2009, 12:01:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: Havok10K ---it really hard to find such anime that dubbed with heart, name at least 1 anime that had that heart of the character,
--- End quote ---
I'll name a few: Fruits Basket, Rumbling Hearts, Shuffle, Koi Kaze, Kanon 2006, Samurai Champloo, Fullmetal Alchemist, El-Hazard (even the Japanese producers thought that dub was better), Ouran High School Host Club, Solty Rei, Trinity Blood, Haibane Renmei, Texhnolyze...
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You seriously considered Fruits Basket, Samurai Champloo, Fullmetal Alchemist and Ouran High School Host Club as "dubbed with heart?" I wouldn't know about the other anime on your list since I've never watched them dubbed (or at all), but I have seen the ones I listed, and the English dub was just as dry as the next.
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on August 16, 2009, 12:01:12 AM ---And what about shows not set in Japan, like shows that take place in the USA/UK or otherwise international settings? For shows like Chrono Crusade, Baccano, Yugo the Negotiator, Area 88, Noir, Hellsing, Sherlock Hound, and Beck, English can feel more appropriate for the show's characters and atmosphere. And then there's all the sci-fi/fantasy settings like Last Exile, Berserk, Lodoss War, Trigun, etc.
--- End quote ---
What bout them? You think Samurai Jack would be better off in Japanese?
No matter how "international" or "US/UK" they seem, its still Japanese. The one writing the story has a Japanese-ethnocentric-point-of-view that is trying to please a majority Japanese audience. No matter how you look at it, its not truly international and it will not be as good in any other language besides its original (in this case, Japanese).
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on August 16, 2009, 12:01:12 AM ---In general, if you don't want to watch English dubs, feel free not to watch them. Just don't knock 'em till you try 'em. In my experience, some dubs are very good, some are very bad, and most fall somewhere on the spectrum between those extremes.
--- End quote ---
I've tried 'em, I won't watch 'em, and I'll knock 'em as much as I want :D
Dubs are like most everything; some are good, some are bad, and most fall somewhere on the spectrum between the extremes. Unfortunately there's only so much an abridged product can do. Even if its from Enlgish to a more readable English (like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn), it won't match the true character intended.
EDIT:
I've said this before (or at least in a simillar way). I do not believe subtitles are innocent of the accusations above. They can be just as bad as the dubbed. For example, a certain subbing group translated dango to dumplings. There are many types of dumplings from different countires and cultures all over Asia. Dango, on the other hand, is specifically Japanese. In this specific example, it doesn't make that much of a difference: in the end since it wasn't major to the storyline. Hopefully you get my point though; subtitles can be just as bad. Although in the end I prefer them over dubs because they don't replace anything.
--- Quote from: Aneroph on August 16, 2009, 12:40:32 AM ---Personally, I've always wanted to see a large scale collaboration between international anime companies to make one grandiose sub anime with characters of different nationality speaking the proper language. American characters have original American voices, Japanese characters have Japanese voices, French characters have french voice etc. with choice of subs for whichever language you speak, or make it story relevant and include translators when the multi-national characters speak with each other.
--- End quote ---
Keep dreaming (no offense intended).
Although one thing's for certain - It would top Steamboy for the record of most expensive anime (26 million USD).
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