The best suicide technology in the world (nuclear technology?)

[IceRiccy]

It's an acceptable risk compared to the amount of money we can save by having cheaper oil. If Iran knows what's good for them, they'll definitely try hard to prevent such kind of problems, and if they didn't know what's good for them and they had that accident, then indeed it's their problem, their fault.

They have the most to lose from a second Chernobyl within their soil.

Ehm...Nuclear power may be clean but the risks arent worth it. A chernobyl accident would Cause disaster in the world and you know it. If you dont, I agree with the other poster and say your an idiot.

besides we have so many different ways of gaining energy, Solar, Water, wind, Thermal, 4 clean and hardly no risk energy sources that we should be investing it other then nuclear energy.

[darkjedi]

The only alternative to nuclear power is mass extinction, pure and simple.

We definitely need nuclear power. Those solar-water-wind-geothermal sources you are talking about will not be enough to provide power for 12 billion people 40 years later. And our fossil fuels and oil will not last very long. Our only viable source of unlimited energy (relatively speaking) will be nuclear fusion derived from the hydrogen atoms that we extract from the oceans, once we master the methods to contain nuclear fusions through electromagnetic confinement. Since we don't have such capability yet, it's even more important that we promote the development of nuclear technology, not discourage it. The more developed our nuclear technology is, the less likely it is that an accident like Chernobyl will happen again.

So guys, support nuclear science.  It will benefit all of your children and grandchildren.

[mgz]

iran doesnt have 12 billion people in their country, since they dont have a nuclear power program developing wind or solar based power sources isnt a bad idea. Since they do have if nothing else a large amount of open space.


PS 12 billion people is approximately double the earths current population. With countries like china who have a billion at a very stable population rate

[BuriaL]

..
The more developed our nuclear technology is, the less likely it is that an accident like Chernobyl will happen again.

So guys, support nuclear science.  It will benefit all of your children and grandchildren.
..

I guess its no use talking to you. To naive and stubborn to reason with.

[AceHigh]

I guess its no use talking to you. To naive and stubborn to reason with.

I could say the same about you. Give me a good alternative... please I dare you. The world consumption of electricity is estimated to be roughly 17 trillion kW hour per year. Yeah, that's 17,000,000,000,000 KWh per year.

Let's take Solar One which is located in Nevada, it produces about 134,000,000 KWh. That means we would need about 126866 power plants like that. That would take roughly 203000 square kilometers. That is an area which is slightly smaller then the country of Romania. Now I know what you think, "we got a volunteer!", but as you see it will take a huge amount of space and there are simply countries that can't afford wasting space like that. As with most of the current renewable sources, they are unreliable and not accessible to all countries.


As much as I could tell you all "Ha ha, suckers, Norway has 99,9% of renewable energy, you suck", I understand that many countries are not in a position to exploit those resources. It's as simple as the fact that Netherlands do not have waterfalls which can be used to produce power.

Nuclear energy is really safe, idiots who are talking about Chernobyl, forget that it was the 1st generation NPP. Finland is now building the 5th generation NPP which actually has failsafe devices unlike Chernobyl (which had an obvious design flaw instead). Nuclear power is safe, clean, reliable and cheap, end of story.

[mgz]

I guess its no use talking to you. To naive and stubborn to reason with.

I could say the same about you. Give me a good alternative... please I dare you. The world consumption of electricity is estimated to be roughly 17 trillion kW hour per year. Yeah, that's 17,000,000,000,000 KWh per year.

Let's take Solar One which is located in Nevada, it produces about 134,000,000 KWh. That means we would need about 126866 power plants like that. That would take roughly 203000 square kilometers. That is an area which is slightly smaller then the country of Romania. Now I know what you think, "we got a volunteer!", but as you see it will take a huge amount of space and there are simply countries that can't afford wasting space like that. As with most of the current renewable sources, they are unreliable and not accessible to all countries.


As much as I could tell you all "Ha ha, suckers, Norway has 99,9% of renewable energy, you suck", I understand that many countries are not in a position to exploit those resources. It's as simple as the fact that Netherlands do not have waterfalls which can be used to produce power.

Nuclear energy is really safe, idiots who are talking about Chernobyl, forget that it was the 1st generation NPP. Finland is now building the 5th generation NPP which actually has failsafe devices unlike Chernobyl (which had an obvious design flaw instead). Nuclear power is safe, clean, reliable and cheap, end of story.

you would be an idiot to say nuclear power isnt safe for the most part when it is maintained properly and staffed with trained individuals, however given irans record on many things in the nature of large expensive shit. And their lack of caring about the people as a whole. It would seem unlikely that the country would find itself pulling a complete 180 on how it ran things. As opposed to wanting to use the guise of developing nuclear programs to work on weapons development which is where speculation comes into play.


Should iran be able to use nuclear power ? hell yea they should, BUT imo they should be reaching out to countries like us or canada or chunks of europe for help not starting from scratch, because when you develop your own technology for things from the ground up usually there is bugs to fix and lessons to learn which is where things like 3 mile island stateside or chernobyl come into play

[BuriaL]

I guess its no use talking to you. To naive and stubborn to reason with.

I could say the same about you. Give me a good alternative... please I dare you. The world consumption of electricity is estimated to be roughly 17 trillion kW hour per year. Yeah, that's 17,000,000,000,000 KWh per year.

Let's take Solar One which is located in Nevada, it produces about 134,000,000 KWh. That means we would need about 126866 power plants like that. That would take roughly 203000 square kilometers. That is an area which is slightly smaller then the country of Romania. Now I know what you think, "we got a volunteer!", but as you see it will take a huge amount of space and there are simply countries that can't afford wasting space like that. As with most of the current renewable sources, they are unreliable and not accessible to all countries.


As much as I could tell you all "Ha ha, suckers, Norway has 99,9% of renewable energy, you suck", I understand that many countries are not in a position to exploit those resources. It's as simple as the fact that Netherlands do not have waterfalls which can be used to produce power.

Nuclear energy is really safe, idiots who are talking about Chernobyl, forget that it was the 1st generation NPP. Finland is now building the 5th generation NPP which actually has failsafe devices unlike Chernobyl (which had an obvious design flaw instead). Nuclear power is safe, clean, reliable and cheap, end of story.

Photovoltaic tech("solar") are currently only operating at a maximum output of 40% or so. The estimated maximum output of this tech is about 83% i think.
In europe, have you ever seen a house with solar panels on the roof? why is that? with current technology you can earn money on them over time, so why dont anyone but campers use them?

Theres allso the issue with using waste heat, from industry, electronics and with better tech i guess we could build "air condition" cooling systems that actualy produce energy.

Geo-Thermal power is barely tapped, whos using it? Iceland?

The netherlands use wind power dont they? and they could use the power of the tidewater?


Even if you live in a bunker with no powersources of any kind theres some hope.
I dont remeber where, but i saw some people on tv once. They buildt some pressure sensitive "mats" that made power when people walked on them.
There are devices like watches that make power when you move.
Hell if it came down to it, make exersise mandatory and have everyone cycle for 10min each day to produce power. Then well have healthier people and more power.


I like green, not pollution brown or nuclear yellow.


Edit: Typo

[mgz]

the amount of actual waste produced by nuclear plants is like nothing compared to most things conventionally used in countries like america

[BuriaL]

the amount of actual waste produced by nuclear plants is like nothing compared to most things conventionally used in countries like america

If youre talking to me..
Iam talking about waste heat produced from machinery, electronics..etc. Iam not talking about burning garbage and shit.
Heat --> Electricity.

Anyways i just found this:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/solar-forest-charging-station-keeps-cars-cool-and-juiced.php#ch02

I loove how it looks. Seems like a practical way to use parking space to

[bloody000]

Solar power is a joke. It's unreliable and it takes up too much space. It only works if you have a huge barren desert.

Recycling waste energy is nothing new. You just have to make up the cost of doing it.

Of course Icelanders are using geothermal power, they have volcanoes everywhere! Do you live near a volcano?

You missed the point. The Netherlands is flat. Their sea is shallow.

Scientists are working on fusion power. If you ask me, it's much more hopeful than those "alternative" energy sources.



Here, we have hydroelectricity. Years ago we have enough electricity to export it to the States. but not anymore. Consumption is rising but production obviously won't go up so we've been importing electricity for the last few years. Unlike fuel-based power plants you just can't built yourself a river and put dams in it. That's why they are good, you don't need to meet special requirements that are out of man's control.

[BuriaL]

Solar power is a joke. It's unreliable and it takes up too much space. It only works if you have a huge barren desert.

Recycling waste energy is nothing new. You just have to make up the cost of doing it.

Of course Icelanders are using geothermal power, they have volcanoes everywhere! Do you live near a volcano?

You missed the point. The Netherlands is flat. Their sea is shallow.

Scientists are working on fusion power. If you ask me, it's much more hopeful than those "alternative" energy sources.



Here, we have hydroelectricity. Years ago we have enough electricity to export it to the States. but not anymore. Consumption is rising but production obviously won't go up so we've been importing electricity for the last few years. Unlike fuel-based power plants you just can't built yourself a river and put dams in it. That's why they are good, you don't need to meet special requirements that are out of man's control.

Next time do some research before writing something at all.

[bloody000]

Educate me, hippie expert.

[BuriaL]

Educate me, hippie expert.

Ace and mgz can put up and argument. You cant even that. Ill write something anyways.

You might wanna elaborate on how the solar energy is fail. How Geo-thermal cant be used unless you live near a volcano and other verry observant statements you just made.
And why cant we use allready developed land for solar panels?

And how can regaining waste energy be costly? Sure inital costs for parts, and over time that pays for itself.

It seems you dont know what "tide" is ether. You know the big ball of light that circle earth every day? Its magnetic and attracts water. So the water moves around and makes a strong current, perfect for making power. Ironicly you said theyre sea is shallow, but thats exactly the reason it works.

[darkjedi]

Geo-Thermal power is barely tapped, whos using it? Iceland?

The Philippines uses it. 1/4th of the Philippines' energy production comes from geothermal power plants, and they only have natural gas and fossil fuel powerplants as alternatives, because they are too poor to operate a dam with an integrated hydroelectric power plant, and they don't have solar panels. I'm in the Philippines right now, (and I've stayed here long enough to thoroughly analyze their energy economy) and I feel the effect clearly; we have power failure lasting for around 10 hours every month in the more out-of-the-way districts on average whenever the geological activities of the tectonic and oceanic plates near the Philippines are weakened, which causes the efficiency of the geothermal power plants to drop because of the lower temperature of the geothermal steam. (5% drop in efficiency means 1/80 of the country will be deprived of electricity until the efficiency is restored; that's 1.2 million people)

And you know what's stupid? Philippines does have a nuclear power plant that they can use to provide power for another 10% of the country whose operation cost is only half a billion USD, (that's cheaper than the cost of the fossil fuels and fossil fuel power plants they need to use to provide power for 10% of their population)  but they can't, because the U.S. doesn't want to help, (and because Filipinos educated by the West are pacifists and stupid) and the Philippines can't complain anything about it because the Philippines is U.S.'s puppet through and through.

Now you see, if Filipinos are deprived of electricity for 10 hours a month, it's because of people like you - people like you who do not like nuclear powers, when nuclear powers are precisely the only thing that will provide your family comfort when your own countries become cheapshits like the Philippines once resources deplete.





And mgz, the reason why Iran can't get help from the U.S. or Western countries is because the West themselves refuse to help. Why would they want to help Iran get better with nuclear technology, when it's clearly against their operational propaganda? (prevent a Muslim nation from getting nuclear powers, woohoo! [courtesy of Bush]) They want Iran to dismantle their nuclear program - no excuse permitted. It's not Iranian's fault; it's the West's fault for not helping. But luckily for Iran they've now got the Russians and the Chinese to help them, (who are incidentally smarter than people like Bush or Hillary Clinton lol) and their 6000+ centrifuges have been operating well so far without any mishaps. Operating 12000+ won't be that hard once Iranians get better in the next few years with Russia and China's help.

[IceRiccy]

The only alternative to nuclear power is mass extinction, pure and simple.

We definitely need nuclear power. Those solar-water-wind-geothermal sources you are talking about will not be enough to provide power for 12 billion people 40 years later. And our fossil fuels and oil will not last very long. Our only viable source of unlimited energy (relatively speaking) will be nuclear fusion derived from the hydrogen atoms that we extract from the oceans, once we master the methods to contain nuclear fusions through electromagnetic confinement. Since we don't have such capability yet, it's even more important that we promote the development of nuclear technology, not discourage it. The more developed our nuclear technology is, the less likely it is that an accident like Chernobyl will happen again.

So guys, support nuclear science.   It will benefit all of your children and grandchildren.

Your naive and stubborn.

Nuclear energy has already reached a limit. The only thing we can research is gaining more energy out of a single atom aswell as increasing the safety measures. Real Energy comes from the Source, the earth itself. Right now at this point, the worlds own heatsource can generate up to 13.000.000 yottajoule. With the current tech, we can only harvest 200 zettajoule using Geothermal plants. over 15 years with less then 1 Billion US dollars investment, we can actually push that harvest amount up to 2 Yottajoule. Wich already supplies nearly enough energy to power the population for several MILLENIA!. Its clean, its safe, its unending and best of all its eco friendly.

Think about it. If 2 ZJ can provide enough energy for the entire world population for Several millenia, regardless of how quick it expands, and the fact that is it safe, why should we invest in nuclear energy, that is anything but safe and has limited capacity?



@ Burial

The Netherlands have Wind, Solar, Water(you dont need waterfalls to create energy with, you also have current), geothermal, nuclear and even Fossil Fuel plants. We are a small country, but we compete with the G8 and every other major industry related country, the only reason why are not on it standard is due to our countries size.


@ bloody000

You have no idea how solar energy really works do you? Learn a little more about it, and you might understand, you dont need just a big barren desert to make it usefull.

[darkjedi]

Your naive and stubborn.

Nuclear energy has already reached a limit. The only thing we can research is gaining more energy out of a single atom aswell as increasing the safety measures. Real Energy comes from the Source, the earth itself. Right now at this point, the worlds own heatsource can generate up to 13.000.000 yottajoule. With the current tech, we can only harvest 200 zettajoule using Geothermal plants. over 15 years with less then 1 Billion US dollars investment, we can actually push that harvest amount up to 2 Yottajoule. Wich already supplies nearly enough energy to power the population for several MILLENIA!. Its clean, its safe, its unending and best of all its eco friendly.

Think about it. If 2 ZJ can provide enough energy for the entire world population for Several millenia, regardless of how quick it expands, and the fact that is it safe, why should we invest in nuclear energy, that is anything but safe and has limited capacity?

Give me sauce.


My sauce:

Energy released by 1 gram of H2 gas undergoing fusion = 9,000,000 joules

Earth = 1,400,000,000,000,000,000 tons of water

Equation:

1,400,000,000,000,000,000 tons x 1,000,000 gram/tons x 9,000,000 joules = 1.3 x 10^31 Joules

1.3 x 10^31 Joules is equivalent to 130,000,000 Yottajoules. 13,000,000 Yottajoules.

coincidentally, you said:

the worlds own heatsource can generate up to 13.000.000 yottajoule

That's precisely because of NUCLEAR POWER.

You just proved my point.  


One free zero is roaming around somewhere.... God damn it... where is it? (found it lol)

[BuriaL]

Iam somewhat confused. Geo-thermal heats up water that gets used in turbines? And this proves youre point how?

[darkjedi]

Iam somewhat confused. Geo-thermal heats up water that gets used in turbines? And this proves youre point how?

Water can be used in three ways to produce energy:
1) geothermal steam (forgot to mention; it's used for all steams, be it fossil fuel, natural gas, oil, even nuclear)
2) kinetic driver in a hydroelectric power plant
3) source of hydrogen atom for nuclear fusion

Among those three, the way by which water can be made to provide 13,000,000 Yottajoules is not geothermal or hydroelectric, but by NUCLEAR FUSION. IceRiccy mistakenly thought the general consensus 'Earth's water can provide 13,000,000 Yottajoules' meant that it's either through geothermal steams or hydroelectric power plant. But it's actually because of nuclear fusion. Only by nuclear fusion can the Earth's water mass be harnessed to provide 13,000,000 Yottajoules.

[IceRiccy]

Geothermal energy is energy that emits from the earth. It comes from magma and the radioactive decay of uranium, thorium, and potassium. Magma is hot because of the tremendous amount of friction and pressure to be found in the earth's subsurface area.

It is simple and only requires water to be pumped through pipes in the Earths crust. Allowing the water to vaporize and rise up, were a turbine catches it and generates energy. The steam cools down, turns to water again and the process is repeated. This is geo thermal energy. once we investigate and improve this technique, we can get asfar as the core, wich will results in unending and a lot of power.

btw, im not mistaking anything here, you are. You are comparing the process of Water to steam to water to a Nuclei turning to a plasmic state.

[darkjedi]

It is simple and only requires water to be pumped through pipes in the Earths crust. Allowing the water to vaporize and rise up, were a turbine catches it and generates energy. The steam cools down, turns to water again and the process is repeated.

That's a very crude method. You definitely won't harvest even 13 Yottajoules of energy before the whole solar system dries up within the next 10 million years. You still need to use some chemicals like isobutane if you plan to produce any substantial amounts of power. That will require you to harvest gas from gas giants like Jupiter and Saturn to produce isobutane, because the Earth itself doesn't have enough. And trying to harvest such in itself uses a lot of power; so far, no human spacecrafts are capable of approaching a gas giant's surface and coming back up intact, because our spacecrafts are not sufficiently powerful. (we will need very high-impulse propulsion devices like nuclear pulse engines or antimatter engines to resist Jupiter or Saturn's gravity; again, nuclear technology) And it's also harmful to the environment also; it's a pollutant and a cancer agent.

we can get asfar as the core, wich will results in unending and a lot of power.

Nah, you can't. Unless you can oppose the kinetic pressure of the Earth's mantle through an equally powerful pressure from nuclear power, you won't be able to approach even just the Moho boundary without your own vehicle breaking down first.

btw, im not mistaking anything here, you are. You are comparing the process of Water to steam to water to a Nuclei turning to a plasmic state.

lol that's inevitable because I'm trying to defend my point of view that nuclear power is better than geothermal power. You were wrong also in claiming that geothermal power can produce 13,000,000 Yottajoules, when it's actually only nuclear power that can produce such amounts of energy.