Anime definition (uploading)

[vigo]

Sorry if the subject deceived you but this isn't a chance to rant/rave about anime vs. cartoons, or anime as a style. This is strictly an inquiry/request over uploadable content.

I just spent a good hour last night and a few minutes this morning researching "anime" on this website, ann, wikipedia and imdb. Why? Because while browsing boxtorr... err, BakaBT I came across Transformers the Movie (which I probably downloaded from boxtorrents).

So...

Its not anime. The TV series isn't anime. This got my fingers clickin' and the search button was violated to no degree. Though transformers seems to be the only one... how is this interpreted? Is this an exception or, does the loophole: it was released in japan tag it for acceptance?

Because if the latter scenario applies, then we could be hosting "clicking" G.I. Joe, The Last Unicorn and Watershipdown. I was able to verify g.i. joe and the last unicorn were released/aired in Japan, and that the watershipdown novel was translated in japanese: ウォーターシップ・ダウンのうさぎたち. Yeah, I know... a lot of wasted time just for someone to come along and state the obvious, "Sorry, not anime."

But after seeing Transformers titles listed, I had to make a case. If the "loophole" isn't valid, then I revert to my first inquiry: Is this an exception. Because if its simply staff debatable then I'd like to make a case for exemplary non-anime animation like anything by Bakshi (wizards, heavy metal, etc) or at least animation that was indeed released in japan like The Last Unicorn and Watership Down.


And if neither of inquiries/observations hit the nail on the head then I simply (sincerely) have to ask: What the hell is Transformers doing on here?

[Sosseres]

My personal definition is, did it make it onto AniDB. Yes or no? In a broader sense, was it made in an East Asian country with culture similar to the Japanese?

[Southrop]

The common definition for anime would be Animation Produced in Japan or by Japanese people/entities.

[kurandoinu]

I'm slightly confused? Is this about the Transformers cartoon movie, or the new one? And surely the cartoon one IS anime? :s

[vigo]

The common definition for anime would be Animation Produced in Japan or by Japanese people/entities.

Understood. Now who can explain Transformers?

I'm slightly confused? Is this about the Transformers cartoon movie, or the new one? And surely the cartoon one IS anime? :s

Transformers The Movie (animated), and Transformers the television series are both American animation cartoons. So by definition Transformers is not. The movie was released in japan 3 years after the American release.

So the point is, that Transformers isn't anime, but its here. Or it is anime because, although American in origin it was later released in Japan. Therefore, shouldn't other American animation that was released/adapted to Japanese audiences also be here?

[Lupin]

Transformers The Movie (animated), and Transformers the television series are both American animation cartoons. So by definition Transformers is not. The movie was released in japan 3 years after the American release.

So the point is, that Transformers isn't anime, but its here. Or it is anime because, although American in origin it was later released in Japan. Therefore, shouldn't other American animation that was released/adapted to Japanese audiences also be here?

The TV series was produced by Toei Animation, a Japanese company. Transformers itself was based on the the toy line made by Takara, a Japanese toy company.

[blubart]

just take a look at the ann page of both the series and the movie.
while transformers is an American brand (albeit based on a Japanese toyline) the animated series and movie where made by Japanese - which fulfills the definition for anime as southrop posted: "Animation Produced in Japan or by Japanese people/entities."
It has nothing to with that it was later released in Japan.

[vigo]

The TV series was produced by Toei Animation, a Japanese company. Transformers itself was based on the the toy line made by Takara, a Japanese toy company.

Written and recorded in America. But ok, I'll bite. The release also year appears to be the same on each side. And I'll concede its production staff is mainly Japanese... so, ok then. By that token should Aeon Flux be considered anime? Someone mentioned "east asian country". One would think Luk Film, Korea would fit the bill.

Just because you can or can't search it on animdb, or ann: that shouldn't define anime.

So why is Aeon Flux not considered anime, but the Transformers Movie (might be)... the movie came out in America 3 years beofre it was released in Japan. Can you call it anime if you dub it in Japanese? Is Naruto then American animation?


I hope I'm not coming off too agressive. But seeing transformers listed made me question whether the site was STRICTLY japanese anime... to be honest I'd be happy if it wasn't. I'd love to upload material like Wizards, or Watershipdown. Of course no one would consider them anime (neither would I). But again, I can't call Transformers anime (at the very least the movie).

[Lupin]

Written and recorded in America. But ok, I'll bite. The release also year appears to be the same on each side. And I'll concede its production staff is mainly Japanese... so, ok then. By that token should Aeon Flux be considered anime? Someone mentioned "east asian country". One would think Luk Film, Korea would fit the bill.

Just because you can or can't search it on animdb, or ann: that shouldn't define anime.

So why is Aeon Flux not considered anime, but the Transformers Movie (might be)... the movie came out in America 3 years beofre it was released in Japan. Can you call it anime if you dub it in Japanese? Is Naruto then American animation?


I hope I'm not coming off too agressive. But seeing transformers listed made me question whether the site was STRICTLY japanese anime... to be honest I'd be happy if it wasn't. I'd love to upload material like Wizards, or Watershipdown. Of course no one would consider them anime (neither would I). But again, I can't call Transformers anime (at the very least the movie).

Was part of it produced in an East Asian country like Japan, Korea or China? No. How about Transformers? Yes. How about the movie? While it's true that the movie (which was most likely produced in its entirety in North America) came out three years later in Japan, note that it's distributor is Takara, the creators of Transformers.

[blubart]

So why is Aeon Flux not considered anime, but the Transformers Movie (might be)... the movie came out in America 3 years beofre it was released in Japan. Can you call it anime if you dub it in Japanese? Is Naruto then American animation?

as i said, take a look at ann:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6 <- Æon Flux (complete animation is done by Americans/Koreans in America)
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2952 <- Transformers Movie (complete animation is done by Japanese, music and storyboard is done in America)

it's not that transformers isn't borderline anime, but there is a huge difference between it and animation like Æon Flux in terms of the definition.

[vigo]

If you guys combined both your posts together it defines exactly what I'm talking about

Aeon flux is not anime because it was created by koreans in America. But The Transformers movie is because it was created by Japanese in America? 

And I did the searches on ANN and wikipedia this morning. ANN lists it, and Wikipedia simply lists the U.S. for ocuntry of origin. I just found this link a minute ago: http://www.absoluteanime.com/transformers/index.htm

I find the topic interesting but I still can't consider The Movie anime. Bottom line is that the country of origin was America and it was produced for an American audience (why it didn't come out in japan for 3 years).

[Lupin]

Aeon flux is not anime because it was created by koreans in America. But The Transformers movie is because it was created by Japanese in America?  

Since you been mentioning wikipedia, read the categories for Aeon Flux at the bottom of the page. Is it anime? The closest thing you can get is anime-influenced. Wikipedia doesn't classify it as anime. Check transformers's categories. Does it include anime? Yes.

No one is forcing you to classify the movie as anime.

[blubart]

Aeon flux is not anime because it was created by koreans in America. But The Transformers movie is because it was created by Japanese in America? 

you should read your own sources - i don't know how you come to the conclusion they swiftly imported those Japanese animators to America.
"It is a cartoon produced in the US. However, it was animated and shown in Japan"

transformers is indeed borderline anime as the producers (music, storyboard) are based in America and it was produced for an American audience. On the other hand it is based on a Japanese Toyline, was animated in Japan and has received a big Japanese audience. Thus it was allowed. Nothing of that sort can be said about Æon Flux.

[vigo]

Its also categorized as an American animation  

So its certainly not clear. And for further confusion...

So do we have to accept thundercats and silverhawks are anime? Both found on ANN.

Here's thundercats: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=3898

If I offer up thundercats will it get approved? I certainly don't think its anime, but I want to know what's accepted. By all arguments made Thundercats would be acceptable anime, and Aeon Flux would not. No?

Personally I think its silly, but at least it would conform to a standard. So can we get a ruling on that?

Thundercats and Transformers the Movie = yes. Aeon Flux = no.

 

[Sosseres]

Thundercats was removed from AniDB since it was never for the Japanese market.

Which transformers can be argued to be. Even if the US had first release that could have been due to any number of reasons, most likely a contract.

[Lupin]

Did both air in Japan? No. Did the Transformers movie air in Japan? Yes.

I'll take AniDB's definition of anime: An anime is an animated, professionally produced, feature film created by a Japanese company for the Japanese market.

Sure, you can say how about Chinese/Korean animation made for Chinese/Korean market. Do those count as anime too? In my opinion, yes. How about Afro Samurai which is a Japanese company produced but for the American market? Does that count as anime? Again for me it's yes since everything sans the cast is Japanese.

[blubart]

By all arguments made Thundercats would be acceptable anime, and Aeon Flux would not. No?

it would most likely not, reread the "arguments made"

anyway: in general it is pretty clear what anime is (see definition) exceptions are decided on a case by case basis. for the transformers movie the arguments (idea (toyline) and animation japanese based, while not produced for a japanese audience it is well known there) where good enough to allow it.
for Æon Flux, Thundercats or all the other series you want to throw into the pot the arguments most likely aren't as strong.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

anyway: in general it is pretty clear what anime is (see definition) exceptions are decided on a case by case basis.

If something's questionable, then we (the staff) discuss it.  If we can't come up with a consensus, then one of the admins makes a final decision.  There's really no hard-and-fast rule, which is why you can ask here about something specific and we'll get back to you (eventually) with a decision.

It's also worth noting that there are things on the site that probably wouldn't be approved if offered today, and things granted now that may not have been accepted in days of yore.  As the staff changes, so does the site.