Obama's Health Care Speech 9-9-9... Way to go Repubs... :\

[relic2279]

If this doesn't prove the party isn't batshit crazy, I don't know what does.

Joe Wilson (R) of S. Carolina in the middle of Obama's speech:  "You Lie!"
Video: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/09/you_lie.php?ref=fpblg

Only, Obama wasn't.

Claim: Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services. False. That’s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs.

Source


So, he's either a republican so blinded by the money the lobbyists are paying him and/or his party that he doesn't care, or he's a complete moron to object in such a manner without having any clue what he's talking about.

[sdedalus83]

The link is interesting.  Almost all of the accusations in the chain email seem to be directed toward the single payer proposal from about a year ago, rather than the current bill. 

At least we're moving toward a public/private hybrid, employer mandate system, similar to what the Japanese have and what Nixon and Kennedy nearly pushed through back in the 70's.  A considerable number of the complaints in that chain email would be legitimate if directed at say, the British NHS, but they fall apart when directed at this proposal.

[vicious796]

This is what I was afraid was going to happen. Obama gets on stand, starts lashing out at Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats for not just signing his bill, seems to be holding back anger at the American public for not accepting it with open arms, and then some RETARD fucks it up.

No attention will be paid to Obama's tone, his demeanor, or the content of his speech. The problem is that there is no clause directly stating that it WON'T be open for illegal immigrants. There's nothing in that bill that defines a check-system. How are we going to keep track of who is and is not on this "public" option. Are you going to create and ship out cards to every single American? How much would that cost alone? Will it be run through SSN? Valid driver's license? How do you ensure that people aren't just sneaking in through stolen IDs or false ones?

If you're telling doctor's offices that, essentially, they have to see every patient that comes to them and it will go on a government plan, why would they refuse an illegal immigrant? It's guaranteed money. Otherwise they'll just keep going to the IR for their children's colds and clog that up.

Obama did not specify anything, there's a shocker. He didn't really promote any aspect of the bill that's come under fire. He did nothing but come out and say "Hey, you're retarded for not blindly following me anymore! Here are some of the ridiculous rumors that no intelligent person should believe."

[relic2279]

The problem is that there is no clause directly stating that it WON'T be open for illegal immigrants.

I'm pretty sure it does:
"Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
Seems pretty direct to me...

How are we going to keep track of who is and is not on this "public" option. Are you going to create and ship out cards to every single American?

Same way we license people to drive, get regular insurance, are on medicaid, or any other government program we currently have.

why would they refuse an illegal immigrant? It's guaranteed money.

Same reason they'd refuse a drug seeker? License loss? You'd have to prove you have insurance to be seen anyhow, so it's sorta moot.

"Hey, you're retarded for not blindly following me anymore! Here are some of the ridiculous rumors that no intelligent person should believe."

Which is what needed to be said. I've seen some of the rumors and misinformation flying around and some of them are beyond laughable.

[mgz]

The problem is that there is no clause directly stating that it WON'T be open for illegal immigrants.

I'm pretty sure it does:
"Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
Seems pretty direct to me...

How are we going to keep track of who is and is not on this "public" option. Are you going to create and ship out cards to every single American?

Same way we license people to drive, get regular insurance, are on medicaid, or any other government program we currently have.

why would they refuse an illegal immigrant? It's guaranteed money.

Same reason they'd refuse a drug seeker? License loss? You'd have to prove you have insurance to be seen anyhow, so it's sorta moot.

"Hey, you're retarded for not blindly following me anymore! Here are some of the ridiculous rumors that no intelligent person should believe."

Which is what needed to be said. I've seen some of the rumors and misinformation flying around and some of them are beyond laughable.

more or less what it says is they will treat them but not give them health insurance

[Semnae]

The Republicans senators are starting to believe their own lies!  Seriously, he's had all of August to read the bill, and now he looks like a dumbass because he either didn't, or is just trying to perpetuate the smear campaign.  Smears are a popular tactic for Republicans, which prompted Obama to start fightthesmears.org during his election campain.

[vicious796]

Because Obama didn't use lies and smears in his campaign :/

He's also not using them now :/

[relic2279]

After he got the nomination, I don't think he had to do much smearing. Palin smeared herself.

I still can't get over how close she was to becoming VP and potentially president. What a fucked up country we live in.

[Mag-X]

I really don't understand all the controversy of the whole thing. The bill specifically excludes illegals. That's a fact. Will a few people be able to cheat the system here and there? Maybe, but you cannot deny health care to the vast majority who are playing by the rules just because a few people cheated. That's just unreasonable.

Will hospitals still be required to treat people who have a real emergency regardless of whether they can prove their legal status or ability to pay? Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with this. In an emergency, people who have insurance may not be able to prove it at the time (due to being unconscious or whatever). Treat first, ask questions later.

Even if you can prove that they are illegal, in an emergency they still deserve basic care. That's just being human. Being an atheist, I don't understand having to explain this to the Christian right who like to think of themselves as bing on the moral high ground.

[mgz]

I really don't understand all the controversy of the whole thing. The bill specifically excludes illegals. That's a fact. Will a few people be able to cheat the system here and there? Maybe, but you cannot deny health care to the vast majority who are playing by the rules just because a few people cheated. That's just unreasonable.

Will hospitals still be required to treat people who have a real emergency regardless of whether they can prove their legal status or ability to pay? Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with this. In an emergency, people who have insurance may not be able to prove it at the time (due to being unconscious or whatever). Treat first, ask questions later.

Even if you can prove that they are illegal, in an emergency they still deserve basic care. That's just being human. Being an atheist, I don't understand having to explain this to the Christian right who like to think of themselves as bing on the moral high ground.

it excludes them from health insurance for free, that is correct.

What the senator should have pointed out as a flaw in our system, is the abuse of our medical facilities by illegal aliens.

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

[relic2279]

I don't understand having to explain this to the Christian right who like to think of themselves as bing on the moral high ground.

"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter."  -Winston Churchill

That's a quote I intend for those moronic 'tea bag protesters' but the Christian right is a subset of that group.

"People who claim that Obama is a communist don't understand what communism is. People who claim that Obama is a socialist don't understand what socialism is. People who claim that Obama is a fascist don't understand what fascism is. People who claim that Obama is a Muslim don't understand what Islam is. And people who support the Republicans because they're capitalists don't understand what capitalism is."

[mgz]

but most people who claim obama is a socialist dont mean he is a socialist in its most literal of definitions.
it would be silly to assume or think that. But his obvious pushes for heavily socialized programs gives support to peoples mindset that he is a socialist regardless of how good or bad his intentions are

[Mag-X]

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

I understand that, but it is a completely separate issue.

[mgz]

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

I understand that, but it is a completely separate issue.

it is and isnt, its all connected to health care of americans and people in america.
While it may not be centered around health insurance, if something was done to stop that problem there would be extra money. Not to mention it might be a deterrent of illegal immigration, knowing that you can and will be refused medical care if you cant afford payment if your not a legal immigrant or citizen.

Its a domino effect of costs and how fixing one thing in a very harsh manner can result in billions saved

[Mag-X]

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

I understand that, but it is a completely separate issue.

it is and isnt, its all connected to health care of americans and people in america.
While it may not be centered around health insurance, if something was done to stop that problem there would be extra money. Not to mention it might be a deterrent of illegal immigration, knowing that you can and will be refused medical care if you cant afford payment if your not a legal immigrant or citizen.

Its a domino effect of costs and how fixing one thing in a very harsh manner can result in billions saved

I'm not saying that it's not an issue, and that it doesn't affect health care costs. However, it's beside the reasons behind health care reform. Health care reform is about making sure all American citizens have access to quality affordable health care. The fact that some illegal immigrants are taking advantage of a law that is designed to help legal citizens is more of an immigration issue. The fact that some people are trying to stop something that would help so many Americans just because some illegal immigrants happen to be helped too is despicable.

[relic2279]

Joe 'You Lie!' Republican voted to provide taxpayer money for illegal immigrants' healthcare:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/11/joe-wilson-voted-to-provi_n_284034.html

/facepalm

[mgz]

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

I understand that, but it is a completely separate issue.

it is and isnt, its all connected to health care of americans and people in america.
While it may not be centered around health insurance, if something was done to stop that problem there would be extra money. Not to mention it might be a deterrent of illegal immigration, knowing that you can and will be refused medical care if you cant afford payment if your not a legal immigrant or citizen.

Its a domino effect of costs and how fixing one thing in a very harsh manner can result in billions saved

I'm not saying that it's not an issue, and that it doesn't affect health care costs. However, it's beside the reasons behind health care reform. Health care reform is about making sure all American citizens have access to quality affordable health care. The fact that some illegal immigrants are taking advantage of a law that is designed to help legal citizens is more of an immigration issue. The fact that some people are trying to stop something that would help so many Americans just because some illegal immigrants happen to be helped too is despicable.

thats good and well but if you have insurance companies and hospitals and doctors inflating many rates due in part to the fact that you deal with illegal immigrants and wont get paid is directly affecting american citizens who have to pay for their own care

[Mag-X]

If you walk into an emergency room with a cold and are an illegal immigrant and cant pay. They cant refuse to treat you.

I understand that, but it is a completely separate issue.

it is and isnt, its all connected to health care of americans and people in america.
While it may not be centered around health insurance, if something was done to stop that problem there would be extra money. Not to mention it might be a deterrent of illegal immigration, knowing that you can and will be refused medical care if you cant afford payment if your not a legal immigrant or citizen.

Its a domino effect of costs and how fixing one thing in a very harsh manner can result in billions saved

I'm not saying that it's not an issue, and that it doesn't affect health care costs. However, it's beside the reasons behind health care reform. Health care reform is about making sure all American citizens have access to quality affordable health care. The fact that some illegal immigrants are taking advantage of a law that is designed to help legal citizens is more of an immigration issue. The fact that some people are trying to stop something that would help so many Americans just because some illegal immigrants happen to be helped too is despicable.

thats good and well but if you have insurance companies and hospitals and doctors inflating many rates due in part to the fact that you deal with illegal immigrants and wont get paid is directly affecting american citizens who have to pay for their own care

The problem isn't the illegal immigrants doing this, it's legal citizens who cannot afford health care. We need to insure them first, and then worry about illegals. If they aren't here in the first place, it wouldn't be a problem, but once they're here, we cannot just turn them away. I'm not saying that they should be given the same level of care that those here legally get, but they deserve at least basic care as a basic human right. After they're patched up, they can be sent back to where they came from.

[furuoshiki]

Illegal immigrants always receive a poorer quality of care versus English speaking Americans with insurance.

They often get sent to non-profit hospitals which are available in urban cities where the majority of illegals congregate in search of employment.

The effects of illegal immigrants on health care is often lower than most are willing to believe. After all most of them don't seek care unless it is life-threatening while Americans call 911 because their cheeseburger did not arrive on time.

Most illegals I have spoken to here in NYC are afraid that the hospital staff will notify ICE of their presence so they tend to try to stay under the radar regarding health care unless they have children here. (Now insuring illegal children should be mandatory because it is not their fault they were brought here.)

[Klocknov]

Illegal immigrants always receive a poorer quality of care versus English speaking Americans with insurance.

They often get sent to non-profit hospitals which are available in urban cities where the majority of illegals congregate in search of employment.

The effects of illegal immigrants on health care is often lower than most are willing to believe. After all most of them don't seek care unless it is life-threatening while Americans call 911 because their cheeseburger did not arrive on time.

Most illegals I have spoken to here in NYC are afraid that the hospital staff will notify ICE of their presence so they tend to try to stay under the radar regarding health care unless they have children here. (Now insuring illegal children should be mandatory because it is not their fault they were brought here.)

On the east coast it is a bit different to the west coast, over here you could almost at every hour of the day find an illegal in the ER.

I agree with you on the children fully, though I hate how the ER is forced to treat the illegals due to policy. It makes it horrible if you go into the ER with a real reason other then the sniffles, like when I go with a broken arm, I normally would have like a 3 hour wait with most the people going before me really not even needed to be there and a good amount I could tell where illegals.

Most illegals here don't care, hell I know a few that have hopped the border now like 4 times and came all the way back up to Washington. I guess since we are closer to the majority of the illegals around here home they have less care or worry.

Though I will say I have been for this system, but that is becuase being broke I can't afford healthcare even if I were to need it anymore since I'm not in school no more. Though I don't know if being in school or having insurance threw work would change that.