Discussion Forums > Politics
Obama's Health Care Speech 9-9-9... Way to go Repubs... :\
vicious796:
--- Quote from: molbjerg on October 06, 2009, 09:28:41 AM ---American politics is insane and pathetic.
Although I have to say British politics is making me want to cry these days.
One of the few remaining things that makes me proud of my country, the NHS is top of the list. I think it says a lot about our culture that even the lowest of the low get treatment. I think it says a lot about Americans that they resist the idea so much. WHAT? SPEND OUR TAXES ON SAVING LIVES INSTEAD OF BOMBS?!??! ZOMG
I think it's completely unethical to have someone wheeled into hospital, needing help - do you have a piece of paper? No. Ok, die then.
--- End quote ---
It's more about proper allocation, at least in my case. This is one of those things that should be solved at a STATE level but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT decides to come in and fuck with it. Our Federal Government is WAY WAY WAY too big and it's getting to a point where it can't support itself. We've become a child country where everyone just wants handouts from the Federal Government.
I hate to say it, but I promise you unemployment will NEVER be low again in the United States if there's a public option. There are some people out there who ONLY work to have health insurance for their kids. This is almost admirable, except that when a public option comes into play and they realize they can just pick up unemployment checks every week and STILL have insurance for their kids, goodbye work.
Medicare is fucked up, we need to do something about it, but a public option (which is what the big boys are rooting for) on a national level for the United States just makes no sense. Do it state-wide, I might even vote for it if the Commonwealth of Virginia said they were gonna handle it (and ONLY them).
relic2279:
--- Quote from: vicious796 on October 06, 2009, 10:18:03 AM ---It's more about proper allocation, at least in my case. This is one of those things that should be solved at a STATE level but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT decides to come in and fuck with it. Our Federal Government is WAY WAY WAY too big and it's getting to a point where it can't support itself.
--- End quote ---
Thank the republicans over the last 30 years for that...
The insurance companies do not work on a state level. The work at a national level. Trying to get each state to negotiate terms of a public option for health care service with the different insurance providers is not just unrealistic, it's a near impossibility. And one sided.
--- Quote ---I hate to say it, but I promise you unemployment will NEVER be low again in the United States if there's a public option. There are some people out there who ONLY work to have health insurance for their kids.
--- End quote ---
Poor people work every day to have money to eat. To insure themselves, their kids, and to pay bills. Saying someone 'only works for insurance' is grasping at straws.
--- Quote ---This is almost admirable, except that when a public option comes into play and they realize they can just pick up unemployment checks every week and STILL have insurance for their kids, goodbye work.
--- End quote ---
Guess what, you still have to PAY for the public option. Whether they're spending money on bills, drugs or god for bid, insurance, I'm not entirely sure why you think that's a bad thing for unemployed people to do.
--- Quote ---Medicare is fucked up
--- End quote ---
Medicare is actually pretty good. I've had first hand experience. I wish I had it now. The only thing that sucks about medicare is it takes too long to get approved to be on it. I'd take medicare over the "first rate" medical insurance I had with Verizon Wireless any day of the week.
fohfoh:
I still think a public + private health care system makes more sense. The hybrid allows for people who need instant care, to get it if they can pay. Those who need help, but can wait... then do so. Why everyone always thinks that it instantly swaps as if the government is going to go, "OK, we're taking over control of health care now. Please hand over assets like a good citizen." is beyond me.
Proin Drakenzol:
I find it interesting that while not a single person arguing against a public option feels they might ever need it the converse is not true.
vicious796:
--- Quote from: Proin Drakenzol on October 06, 2009, 11:25:56 AM ---I find it interesting that while not a single person arguing against a public option feels they might ever need it the converse is not true.
--- End quote ---
Because, when you lose your job, your company usually pays for your insurance for awhile after it as a severance. Aside from that medicare and COBRA do what they need to for short periods of time. Seeing as I would NEVER go a long period of time without a job, a lack of health insurance to some degree is not a concern of mine.
I honestly don't see how people don't get jobs. I've never had a problem in any state I've ever lived in. Are they the BEST jobs? No. But money is money in a tight spot and responsible people do what they have to do to get things done.
@relic
What are you talking about, insurance companies don't work at a state level? Are you retarded? Have you EVER filled out an insurance form? You report the state you work in due to rates in different states varying. Why? Law suits. West Virginia, for example, doesn't have a max amount you can sue for in case of a medical or car accident. What does that mean? Insurance rates are THROUGH THE ROOF in West Virginia. Do companies work in multiple states? Yes, but it all goes down to different rates for different reasons and they have STATE OFFICES for that purpose.
I'm also getting really, really sick of hearing about how the republicans have done everything wrong in the last 30 years as though no Democrat or Independant has ever voted to increase government size. This current administration is totally democrat, he has a majority in all of congress and a slight edge in the Justices and he's done NOTHING aside from increase government size. The government owns everything right now, does it not? Tax dollars have bought out companies left and right and the government is larger than ever and it's a big, fat, democrat lead charge. Can your Republican hate shit for some other place, they didn't do it alone.
Yes, poor people work every day to do things - but poor people also do nothing all day too. I'm not saying every single poor person will not work because they don't need insurance but there will be those who won't and unemployment will be higher on an average because of it. There are lifers on the wellfare system who have lived in government funded housing for generations buying things on welfare taxed money for their entire lives, don't start telling me that every American works hard like you and me because that's a bold faced lie. I'll tell you a flat out truth - those who don't work hard don't deserve the benefits and nice things in life that you and I enjoy. They flat out don't.
You also hit the nail on the head - I still have to pay for the public option. If it works the way they've been talking about it (like USPS compared to UPS and FedEx) it'll be tax dollars funding a public option for those who are without paid insurance. Right now, there is no public option in the plan and it's just an enforced restructuring (or so it seems) of how these private companies do business. If Mr. Reid gets his way that will change.
--- Quote from: fohfoh ---I still think a public vs private health care system makes more sense. The hybrid allows for people who need instant care, to get it if they can pay. Those who need help, but can wait... then do so. Why everyone always thinks that it instantly swaps as if the government is going to go, "OK, we're taking over control of health care now. Please hand over assets like a good citizen." is beyond me.
--- End quote ---
Because we've seen rapid government takeovers recently that are rather astounding. Look at the car manufacturers and mortgage companies, the government just bought them without really blinking an eye at first. It was this massive multi-billion dollar takeover that the taxpayers are going to be paying for for generations. Now we're talking about a continual tax to pay for millions of people and no guarantee on our money. Congress has tried to RUSH something through that probably deserves a really, really, really long and hard look. Why? Because it's not going to affect them personally. They've already refused to sign off on using the public option if they voted for it, what does that tell you? Either it's not good enough for them but it is for their constituency or they have no real idea what it is they're pushing so they're hesitant to go for it.
If I'm going to be stuck paying for something, I want to know it will work and work well. I want to know it's gone through all kinds of changes to be the closest thing to perfect they could come up with, not something they slapped together in 3 months and blew through to pat themselves on the back on what great humanitarians they are.
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