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aspect ratio question
kenshin-dono:
sorry the gal heh.
hmm so the way you guys describe it it is NOT 16:9 and it will be stretched inapropriatly on my monitor or my 60" had that i usually watch this stuff on? Im a bit confused because thats what it sounds like your saying then later you say it kinda does o_O
You mention it gets stretched. when im talking actually 16:9 i mean displayed without any cropping or ugly stretching. I wouldn't mind bars on the side or tops, but i cant stand losing parts of the image or stretching/squishing
what looks off? cant you tell from the pics? im talkinga bout the ones halfway down on the comment page here
http://bakabt.me/details.php?id=146810&page=0#comments
direct link tot he pics
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1825/hyakkodvd07.png
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5549/hyakkodtv07a.png
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2241/hyakkodvd04.png
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7391/hyakkodtv04a.png
the dvd ones look all squished and ugly, although for some reason the screenshots posted by the uploader look normal.. at least at fist glance
i gotta go feed and put my niece down i'll come back and read through that linked site you posted. Maybe i should try to d.load one epp of each for comparison too but this still seems confusing. I just want it to display properly without cropping the picture or stretching it, im not clear if it does that. I cant see how it could with the resolution listed being an odd number liket hat
morrefule:
I did knotice on img140 the picture is compressed horrizontally or streached vertically, whichever you prefer. Also around the mouth it is boxed instead of rounded like in img186. This can come from a few things.
One - Bad encoding or bad formatting of the encode
Two - Your monitor resolution. Remember standard TV resolutionis NOT always the same as monitor resolution. Some monitors even though they are wide screen are the same pixel count as TV resolution. This is because normally a Monitor has higher resolution, so this can cause and image to become compressed when displayed. What is the natural resolution of your monitor?
Three - Aspect ratio you have set for your PC.
Unfortunately 704x480 is not the best size in my opinion for widescreen format. It can cause compression like you are seeing in these images. If you can find a true 720p or blu-ray encode, and your PC can handle it, i would go with those.
outside of that you got me, if it isn't those three things... unfortunately I can't help you out much. Personally, got with what looks best to you on your monitor.
kureshii:
--- Quote from: kenshin-dono on October 11, 2009, 01:05:41 AM ---sorry the gal heh.
hmm so the way you guys describe it it is NOT 16:9 and it will be stretched inapropriatly on my monitor or my 60" had that i usually watch this stuff on? Im a bit confused because thats what it sounds like your saying then later you say it kinda does o_O
--- End quote ---
LOL, “stretched inappropriately” xD
If you do away with the assumption that image pixels must be square in shape, then it will make sense to you ;)
The pixels on a monitor may be square, but on other devices this is not necessarily the case. On an anamorphic encode, the information is presented in an array of 704x480 pixels. You calculate the aspect ratio as 1.467 only if you assume that the pixels must be square in shape... and in this case they are not.
You're probably wondering “how do the square pixels on my monitor display non-square pixel data then?” The answer: software re-scaling. This probably sets off alarms in your head about “possible loss of image data during scaling” and other dangers of software scaling, but seriously, you're not going to notice the difference much (unless your media player is using a sucky resizing algorithm like nearest-neighbour). Besides, this is the way the studio intended the video to be seen.
Of course, it is going to look terribly blocky or blur on a 60" screen, but all DVDs will look like that on a 60" screen anyway.
“So why even do this at all? Why can't the DVD just be released in native 16:9 aspect ratio?”
Simply put, because widescreen ratios are not part of the DVD-Video specification, they cannot be encoded in that form. DVD players conforming to the specifications would not be able to decode it. So anamorphic widescreen is really a little hack that allows storing widescreen video in a non-widescreen source ratio. Keep in mind that the DVD-Video specifications were released more than 10 years ago; there simply wasn't that much widescreen stuff then.
As for why people would even think of making movies or videos in a widescreen format... that is not a question I can answer >_> Just think of it as the zeitgeist of this era.
From this point on I'll have to refer you to the wikipedia article and other articles (note that this article was written back in 2000, with minor updates in 2006, and HD wasn't so widespread then), as well as other members who are more well-versed on anamorphic widescreen.
--- Quote from: kenshin-dono on October 11, 2009, 01:05:41 AM ---what looks off? cant you tell from the pics? im talkinga bout the ones halfway down on the comment page here
http://bakabt.me/details.php?id=146810&page=0#comments
the dvd ones look all squished and ugly, although for some reason the screenshots posted by the uploader look normal.. at least at fist glance
--- End quote ---
AFAIK most media players simply take the image data before scaling or pixel-shading is applied and save it as a screenshot. Hence, the image is not anamorphically scaled. If viewed as-is, they would look horizontally squished. If you rescaled the DVD screenshots to a 16:9 aspect ratio (i.e. 853x480), they would look normal.
If you see the word “anamorphic”, the video is almost definitely 16:9 widescreen, even if the source ratio (i.e. presented ratio of the video file) says otherwise.
--- Quote from: morrefule on October 11, 2009, 01:27:32 AM ---Also around the mouth it is boxed instead of rounded like in img186. This can come from a few things.
One - Bad encoding or bad formatting of the encode
Two - Your monitor resolution. Remember standard TV resolutionis NOT always the same as monitor resolution. Some monitors even though they are wide screen are the same pixel count as TV resolution. This is because normally a Monitor has higher resolution, so this can cause and image to become compressed when displayed. What is the natural resolution of your monitor?
Three - Aspect ratio you have set for your PC.
--- End quote ---
With regards to detail differences between the TV and DVD versions (e.g. the different mouth shapes), those will not come from encoder filtering. I believe those scenes were simply reworked between the DVD and TV release. You'd notice that the eyes and cheek-lines are a little different as well; No encoding filter is able to change the image like that.
psyren:
Considering all things, I'm wondering if he's even running his monitor at the right resolution.
kenshin-dono:
ok guys thnx a lot for the help. i wound up d.loading the 704x400 xvid tv broadcast version of episode 2 since that was the one that ws closest to done with the 704x480 dvd rip i was d.loading from another site (same file) I figured seeing it in action was the best bet
I could go with the 720p version, but this show didn't look important enough to store in HD, so im going for the smaller filesize
I think kureshii's explination made the most sense. i couldn't wrap my brain around it untill it became clear that the pixels could be different sizes. Even then its still confusing but makes a bit more sense. The whole rescaling thing is kinda an odd workaround, and i AM concerned about picture degredation, but oh well, no other options i guess. And as he mentioned the screenshots probably werent anamorphically scaled, which is why they looked WAY squished and off.
they dont look nearly as squished and lame as that. My monitor is set to 1920X1200. which is a 16:10 most monitor rez's seem to be (thats another thing i always found odd. why monitors seem to be 16:10 for most things). But i usually watch this on my 1920X1080P HD tv hooked into my surround sound. So on that it would be the standard 16:9 ratio. I played it on both the regular monitor and set output tot he Tv's resolution.
it looked damn close. It was SLIGHTLY off though. The 704X480 dvd rip seemed to be slightly cut off most noticably across the bottom of the screen. Not much, but a tiny bit. I didn't really notice any cropping on the sides. Also it seemed a tiny bit stretched, but It was very minor. Nothing like the screenshots above. If i wasn't comparing them side by side i wouldn't have noticed. I would take screenshots to show the exact differnce but i dont know how. Im using MPC and Zoom to compare them. I used MPC for the dvd rip, zoom for the tv pme and alt tabed with fullscreen on for instant comparison. The only player that seems to let me capture a sceen is VLC which is ass
So i guess it does an okay job of scaling, but it still bugs me that a tiny bit of the picture does appear to be lost, the stretching is very minor. When you combine the fact that it has a better ratio and the MUCh better picture than the DVD rip; Im seriously considering the TV version. Blown up on the 60" the color depth and picture quality differences really stood out. The only reason im probably going to stick with the DVD is the few edits they made to the tv broadcast >_< grr i hate when they do that, its making it really hard to chose
anyway thnx again so much for the help guys, and the links. I think ill check those articles out later just to learn up on this confusing stuff =D now to decide if i'll put up with the lower video quality and slightly croped picture vs the better quality unmarred but slightly edited TV version. *sigh*
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