Author Topic: Computer hangs/freezes with 2 hdds plugged in + filename changed during transfer  (Read 1216 times)

Offline HrtOfSword

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Long story short, my Dell Dimension 8400 desktop sometimes hangs and freezes when I access / click on stuff stored in the secondary SATA hard drive connected. Another problem that happens is that upon connecting the secondary SATA hard drive (I connect before turning on the power) and I boot up the PC, I sometimes get this "drive not detected" black screen and WINDOWS does not load. Sometimes only one hard drive out of two cannot be detected.

I don't usually connect the secondary SATA hard drive (and I turn the power off for it when I don't thru' the settings on bootup) and only connect it to transfer or backup files.

I suspect that this may be due to the data cable being old and worn out so it comes loose easily, it is worn out internally so it doesn't transfer data as well, or its connectors are dirty. The reason for this suspicion is because whenever I encounter the aforementioned two problems, the solution I discovered was to unplug and replug the data cables back to the harddrive. It usually works, although sometimes only for a short period (sometimes it works perfectly).

However the solution only solves the symptoms, and may not be solving the cause. So I would like to know what is the cause so that I can replace the parts and remove the cause of this problem.


Now for the long story, my first harddrive (call it HDD-A) used to run rather fast. Even with MSN Messenger, Azureus and a MMORPG running at the same time, it neither lagged the computer or internet connection. This was the case even if it was turned on for long periods of days or a week or two. However, after using HDD-A for about 3 years or so, it started lagging after being turned on for a couple of days. Then it started getting worse and would lag if I opened Azureus. At this point, it could still play mkv videos properly. Sometime around this period, my Norton Internet Security 2004 went nuts (probably a corrupted registry key) and would cause my computer to lag due to it scanning thumbs.db and other stuff every now and then. One of Norton's programs would sometimes "encounter an error" and close itself though Norton Internet Security and Anti-Virus didn't close (but it would rearrange the icons on the bottom right corner of the tab). I suspect that was also due to registry key corruption. After uninstalling Norton and installing some other anti-virus, I stopped having those Norton problems and it became slightly better for a while.

It deteriorated further and it got to the point in which playing an mkv video, especially those around 720p, would make the video lag behind the audio. This was especially the case whenever a particular portion of the video displayed multiple or complex changes in the image. It was also at this point that I started getting a few blue screens (less than five) and started having problems such as the harddrive not being detected, especially if I had just connected and/or disconnected the secondary harddrive.

(HDD-B was once used as a backup HDD such that if HDD-A died, I would be able to access the files in HDD-A using HDD-B.)
However, when I changed the harddrive to a second harddrive (call it HDD-B) with no change to any other part of the desktop, the mkv videos played fine without any lag at all. This led me to initially suspect that it might not be a problem with the components of the desktop but it may be the harddrive causing this problem. However, after using HDD-B for a month or so, it started deteriorating as well and similar problems as HDD-A started appearing, though less severe, even now (after using HDD-B for about 3-4 months).

What made me worry the most was when I was transferring a file from HDD-A to HDD-B. The filename of the Nyoro~n Subs version of Evangelion 1.0 was changed from the original long filename to just _NYORO~1. I did not change the filename (I only noticed it a few days later) but I remember that while the file was being transferred the small little window-tab that appeared displayed the short _NYORO~1 name instead of the full long filename. However, I didn't think much about it at that time as I encountered the same issue with the small window-tab while transferring other files, but those other files did not have their name changed after being transferred (they retained their full long filenames).

So I have four questions.
1. Does anyone know what is the underlying problem with my desktop? Am I right to say that it is a problem with my data cable?
2. Why or how did the filename of the video get changed during the transfer from one HDD to another?
3. Why is there a shortened version of the full long filename displayed for some files when they are transferred but not for others? Is it some kind of hidden system information like the information on the artist in an MP3 file?
4. Is there any way to prevent such a change (or corruption?) in filename?


Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 10:40:05 AM by HrtOfSword »

Offline Lupin

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Check your power requirements. How many hard disks do you have running? How many optical drives? What's your video card? If your computer has too many components, it's possible that your power supply no longer have enough juice to run them all. You mentioned that you're running you computer for days without turning off. Running your computer for days makes your supply capacitive, reducing the amount of power it produces. If this is the case, buy a new PSU.

Filenames can get changed when you're transferring between two different file systems. FAT file system uses a 8.3 format--8 characters for the name and 3 characters for the extension. My suggestion is to use NTFS in all your drives.

Offline kureshii

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Actually, none of those issues sound like they're directly caused by a faulty or dying HDD. System slowdown is just a result of file system clutter, program bloat and registry spam, among other causes. Lagging video playback is usually a processor + settings issue, and doesn't usually have to do with the HDD.

Defrag the system disk, run cleanup programs (CCleaner recommended), and personally I don't know how to make AV work properly again since I don't use any (well, I use Clamwin, but that's a standalone scanner that doesn't do shell integration).

More importantly, do you hear weird clicky noises or other worrying sounds coming from your HDD when these system hiccups occur?

Other possible causes off the top of my head:
1) Overheating HDD (Does it have adequate ventilation, and a supply of cooler air from a case fan?)
2) General disk slowdown near capacity (Hard drives get slower as they start getting filled up)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 11:45:46 AM by kureshii »

Offline HrtOfSword

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Check your power requirements.
001. How many hard disks do you have running?
002. How many optical drives?
003. What's your video card?
001. Two hard disks (I can only have 2 hdd connected at one time as there are only 2 trays for hdd on my Dell desktop)
002. One DVD drive.
003. RADEON X300 Series & RADEON X300 Series Secondary

If your computer has too many components, it's possible that your power supply no longer have enough juice to run them all. You mentioned that you're running you computer for days without turning off. Running your computer for days makes your supply capacitive, reducing the amount of power it produces. If this is the case, buy a new PSU.
Q1b. Does that mean that it is not a problem with my data cables, power cables and memory, but rather my PSU?
Q5. And just curious, why does running the computer on days make the PSU capacitive? And why does that in turn reduce the amount of power produced?


Filenames can get changed when you're transferring between two different file systems. FAT file system uses a 8.3 format--8 characters for the name and 3 characters for the extension. My suggestion is to use NTFS in all your drives.
Q6. How do I tell whether a harddrive is using the FAT file system or the NTFS file system?
Q7. How do I set it on installation/format so that my harddrive is always NTFS and never is FAT?

Q8. On a sidenote, I would like to know the actual correct method of formatting a harddrive without installing the OS and with the ability to create partitions. What I did for my 500GB file backup only harddrive was I right-clicked on it, selected Format and clicked on start. There was no option for partitions in that small menu.

Lagging video playback is usually a processor + settings issue, and doesn't usually have to do with the HDD.
The problem with HDD-A is that it sometimes does not have the lagging video problem and sometimes has it. Sometimes restarting the computer does the trick but sometimes it lags even though the computer just booted up.

More importantly, do you hear weird clicky noises or other worrying sounds coming from your HDD when these system hiccups occur?
My fan (the big one for people) is noisier than my desktop so I don't exactly hear anything from my desktop (I used to hear lots of noises from my Windows ME PC so I know what it sounds like).

Other possible causes off the top of my head:
1) Overheating HDD (Does it have adequate ventilation, and a supply of cooler air from a case fan?)
2) General disk slowdown near capacity (Hard drives get slower as they start getting filled up)
1) My desktop case is opened up for the ease of changing of HDDs, so it has lots of ventilation, even without a fan (it has fans though).
2. My HDD-A has been hovering around 300MB to 700-800MB since around two years ago but that was not when the video started lagging and Norton went crazy. It was quite some time (months or maybe a year plus) after hovering around 300MB to 700-800MB that the problems started.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 12:14:42 PM by HrtOfSword »

Offline Lupin

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001. Two hard disks (I can only have 2 hdd connected at one time as there are only 2 trays for hdd on my Dell desktop)
002. One DVD drive.
003. RADEON X300 Series & RADEON X300 Series Secondary
How about your power supply? What's its rating? I've had bad experiences with OEM computers. They usually use power supplies that only have enough juice to run the current setup.
Q1b. Does that mean that it is not a problem with my data cables, power cables and memory, but rather my PSU?
It might. PSU is the most underrated component in a computer. You said the problem only arises when you attach another drive. Try installing the other drive instead of the DVD drive. Check if you experience any lock-ups/slowdowns.
Q8. On a sidenote, I would like to know the actual correct method of formatting a harddrive without installing the OS and with the ability to create partitions. What I did for my 500GB file backup only harddrive was I right-clicked on it, selected Format and clicked on start. There was no option for partitions in that small menu.
Right click on My Computer and select Manage. On the left pane, select Disk Management. Windows will then list all drives present in your system. Just select the drive you want to format, right click then select Create New Partition. Here you can select the size, and type of partition that will be made for the drive. You can also choose to set a drive letter for the partition as well as the format the drive.

Offline kureshii

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There's no "correct" method of formatting per-se; Windows does it well enough actually. But you can always use boot to a system boot CD and use that to partition your hard drive if you like. In my experience I've never found it to provide any significant advantage over formatting while in OS, although you will have to boot to a system CD/disk if you want to repartition your OS drive (you can't re-partition it while running from it)

Your hard disk shouldn't switch disk formats halfway during operation; in fact, it should not be able to do so without wiping your data (unless it does so by some roundabout method, e.g. backing up data to another partition first). Once NTFS, always NTFS until re-formatted. Likewise for FAT32, etc.

PSU power output isn't the only reason we distrust most OEM PSUs, they are also not known to have low noise or low voltage drop on the voltage lines. If you can get a model number or other information on the PSU in your Dell, I can do a quick google.

I would always recommend getting a decent PSU in a computer (especially the cheaper ones) once your warranty expires (assuming you want to keep the warranty before that), although I've heard of cases where the motherboard is proprietary and doesn't work with other ATX PSUs. Hopefully that is not the case here.

Just to be sure, I'd also throw in a Scandisk check. HDD-A is probably fine, but if you've never done a disk scan on it, it's nice to have a little peace of mind and know for sure. Also, disk brand, make and model number, if possible. Not that it's a sure indicator of anything, but information always helps.

Last question; you said you sometimes get lagginess on MKVs, and sometimes not. Was that tested with the same MKV file, or with various MKV files?

Can you verify if this is the Dimension 8400 you have? If not, do post the basic specs as well (processor type, chipset type if you can find it) - CPU-Z will be of great help here.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 01:06:58 PM by kureshii »

Offline HrtOfSword

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001. Two hard disks (I can only have 2 hdd connected at one time as there are only 2 trays for hdd on my Dell desktop)
002. One DVD drive.
003. RADEON X300 Series & RADEON X300 Series Secondary
How about your power supply? What's its rating? I've had bad experiences with OEM computers. They usually use power supplies that only have enough juice to run the current setup.
Q1b. Does that mean that it is not a problem with my data cables, power cables and memory, but rather my PSU?
It might. PSU is the most underrated component in a computer. You said the problem only arises when you attach another drive. Try installing the other drive instead of the DVD drive. Check if you experience any lock-ups/slowdowns.
Sometimes the "cannot find harddrive" black screen problem also happens when I use only one harddrive. But it usually happens after I have unplugged the secondary harddrive and rebooted the computer.
Erm what do u mean by installing the other drive instead of the DVD drive?
Do you mean turn off the DVD drive in the system settings (refering to the F2 menu before Windows boots)?

Q8. On a sidenote, I would like to know the actual correct method of formatting a harddrive without installing the OS and with the ability to create partitions. What I did for my 500GB file backup only harddrive was I right-clicked on it, selected Format and clicked on start. There was no option for partitions in that small menu.
Right click on My Computer and select Manage. On the left pane, select Disk Management. Windows will then list all drives present in your system. Just select the drive you want to format, right click then select Create New Partition. Here you can select the size, and type of partition that will be made for the drive. You can also choose to set a drive letter for the partition as well as the format the drive.
Q9. Will the windows version affect the way that my new harddisk is formatted? Like will Windows 7 format harddisks more reliably than Windows XP or Vista, and XP will format better than those in the '90s?

PSU power output isn't the only reason we distrust most OEM PSUs, they are also not known to have low noise or low voltage drop on the voltage lines. If you can get a model number or other information on the PSU in your Dell, I can do a quick google.
I would always recommend getting a decent PSU in a computer (especially the cheaper ones) once your warranty expires (assuming you want to keep the warranty before that), although I've heard of cases where the motherboard is proprietary and doesn't work with other ATX PSUs. Hopefully that is not the case here.
I've tried googling the code written on it CN-0X2634-17972-578-25Q4 but there are no results.
Yea I've heard that from the guy who came to fix my computer once (he discovered the fan was spoiled, but thankfully I had warranty).

Just to be sure, I'd also throw in a Scandisk check. HDD-A is probably fine, but if you've never done a disk scan on it, it's nice to have a little peace of mind and know for sure. Also, disk brand, make and model number, if possible. Not that it's a sure indicator of anything, but information always helps.
It's a Western Digital so it's pretty much reliable I guess.

Last question; you said you sometimes get lagginess on MKVs, and sometimes not. Was that tested with the same MKV file, or with various MKV files?
Both. I cant remember all the individual cases but I do remember one thing.
The opening for Code Geass R2 always always always lagged at the part where they did this warp thingy while showing all the characters. The wrap thingy was probably too much for whatever that had the problem. This was for HDD-A.
I think HDD-A also lagged sometimes for Gundam 00 S1 at the part in which the Gundam first appeared and had glowing "wings". Sometimes it worked fine and there was no lag.

Can you verify if this is the Dimension 8400 you have? If not, do post the basic specs as well (processor type, chipset type if you can find it) - CPU-Z will be of great help here.
It looks like it but mine is probably an older version as I have
- CPU - Intel Pentium 4 530, not 560. It's a Prescott.
- Mainboard - Intel i925X, not Intel 925X Express



Offline billlanam

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Replace your cable at the very least, even if it's not part of the problem, they are cheap, and it won't hurt.

You also could have too many programs running in the background, which will slow down your computer, use msconfig to see and disable (or remove) the programs that you don't need (google the names to see whether you'll need them).

The intermittent lag probably happens when a program in the background slows the computer down enough to interfere.