Old Pc's are wierd. lol

[Mikan]

I thumbed through a box of pc parts and found a old MAC 636d Socket. its ceramic.and...from motorola. lol
and zero heatsink.  wouldnt pc's overheat though?

[Lupin]

Processors don't generate too much heat back then

[kureshii]

There are actually processors that don't need heatsinks. They're not your run-of-the-mill desktop processors, but they serve a wide range of functions. Chances are, if you open up your router you'd find one.

A lot of older desktop chips are like that too.

[Mikan]

ahh! Googled, and found out ceramics also dissipate heat.

From what google,  Lupin, and Kureshii said I put together this: Ceramic Sockets are used in electronics that dont use alot of power, therefor not generating alot of heat where the ceramics can dissipate enough of it to keep the hardware safe.

amirite?

[kureshii]

Do you mean the socket, or the chip covering? As I recall, the really old processors were soldered onto the board, and don't come in a separate die that fits into a manufactured socket.

But in any case, ceramics are pretty gopd heat dissipators (if I didn't remember my lessons from Materials classes wrongly). They're not used often because they're more expensive to manufacture than the usual composite materials you see covering chips these days (again, assuming that what I learnt isn't already outdated).

It seems ceramic-based cooling technology is mainly used in high-end/industrial/military applications these days, which is where budgets tend to be higher. As a recent example, ASUS has a P55 Lynnfield motherboard (ASUS Sabertooth 55i) featuring ceramic-coated heatsinks "for better heat dissipation". I'm guessing in the past they hadn't developed cheaper methods of cooling just yet.

[darkjedi]

Ceramics have unusually high heat capacity, yeah. They are very good for siphoning heat from semiconductors.

Ceramics make the best material for non-reactive armors of military vehicles.

[kureshii]

Ceramics have unusually high heat capacity, yeah. They are very good for siphoning heat from semiconductors.

Actually, the effectiveness of "heat-siphoning" is determined by thermal conductivity, not heat capacity.

[darkjedi]

Mm. I learned something new today.

[Lupin]

Ceramics have unusually high heat capacity, yeah. They are very good for siphoning heat from semiconductors.

Actually, the effectiveness of "heat-siphoning" is determined by thermal conductivity, not heat capacity.

I think he's talking about the same thing but used the wrong term

[darkjedi]

Semantic confusion aside, when I hear 'ceramic', the thing that comes to my mind is 'insulator' not a 'conductor'. Maybe some specialized ceramic fibers (putting random names here) do really offer good thermal conductivity, but whether it's a genuine contributor of its heat dissipating characteristic, I dunno. I know its heat capacity clearly is.

[billlanam]

Semantic confusion aside, when I hear 'ceramic', the thing that comes to my mind is 'insulator' not a 'conductor'. Maybe some specialized ceramic fibers (putting random names here) do really offer good thermal conductivity, but whether it's a genuine contributor of its heat dissipating characteristic, I dunno. I know its heat capacity clearly is.

Ceramics are electrical insulators.

[darkjedi]

Ah, I see. So it's an electrical insulator and a thermal conductor.

[surdumil]

Ceramic packaging is just the other option for integrated circuits.  Ceramic is a better heat conductor than plastic.  It isn't really obsolete.  It's just not commonly used and it's kinda expensive which is why microchip manufacturers try to find ways to not use it.

It's amazing how fast you can clock these days without needing a heat sink.  I've been involved with designs that use a PowerPC-based microprocessor that clocks at around 650 MHz without need of a heat sink or forced air conduction.  It uses a big metal square under the device to conduct heat into the circuit board.

[Mikan]

Do you mean the socket, or the chip covering? As I recall, the really old processors were soldered onto the board, and don't come in a separate die that fits into a manufactured socket.

But in any case, ceramics are pretty gopd heat dissipators (if I didn't remember my lessons from Materials classes wrongly). They're not used often because they're more expensive to manufacture than the usual composite materials you see covering chips these days (again, assuming that what I learnt isn't already outdated).

It seems ceramic-based cooling technology is mainly used in high-end/industrial/military applications these days, which is where budgets tend to be higher. As a recent example, ASUS has a P55 Lynnfield motherboard (ASUS Sabertooth 55i) featuring ceramic-coated heatsinks "for better heat dissipation". I'm guessing in the past they hadn't developed cheaper methods of cooling just yet.

That + Liquid cooling must be amazing.
The socket has a little metal square in the center surrounded by the prongs then everything on top is ceramic lol

This is from 1994, so unless you mean older PC's I guess mac did things differently, as always.

(click to show/hide)

These things even have any value?

[PowerMac]

Do you mean the socket, or the chip covering? As I recall, the really old processors were soldered onto the board, and don't come in a separate die that fits into a manufactured socket.

But in any case, ceramics are pretty gopd heat dissipators (if I didn't remember my lessons from Materials classes wrongly). They're not used often because they're more expensive to manufacture than the usual composite materials you see covering chips these days (again, assuming that what I learnt isn't already outdated).

It seems ceramic-based cooling technology is mainly used in high-end/industrial/military applications these days, which is where budgets tend to be higher. As a recent example, ASUS has a P55 Lynnfield motherboard (ASUS Sabertooth 55i) featuring ceramic-coated heatsinks "for better heat dissipation". I'm guessing in the past they hadn't developed cheaper methods of cooling just yet.

That + Liquid cooling must be amazing.
The socket has a little metal square in the center surrounded by the prongs then everything on top is ceramic lol

This is from 1994, so unless you mean older PC's I guess mac did things differently, as always.

(click to show/hide)

These things even have any value?

Yes, Apple used the PowerPC architecture throughout the 90s. Was a very good  architecture up until the early 2000s when it just started to suck and Apple eventually switched to Intel. PowerPC is still very popular in embedded applications, for example HP uses PowerPC based chips in a lot of their laser printers

[blubart]

...without need of a heat sink or forced air conduction.  It uses a big metal square under the device to conduct heat into the circuit board.

isn't that what one would call a heat sink?

[rheffera]

Yes, Apple used the PowerPC architecture throughout the 90s. Was a very good  architecture up until the early 2000s when it just started to suck and Apple eventually switched to Intel.

Which is the moment when Apple became Worthless. To me anyway.

The whole reason i liked macs was that they were different than Intel and Old Billy over at micro$oft.

I remember buying a 68k performa from my high school. MMM '040 processor.

I remember having a power pc 603e. it was brutally efficient at running Mac OS 7; vs Microsoft's buggy win98 at the time.

And the game escape velocity. and sim city 2000. MMMMM memories

In fact for thier time they were damn good against Intel and winblows.

Now all an apple is is an overpriced windows pc. The OS's are interchangeable. Might as well buy a regular PC and install mac os manually .

speaking of old computers; i just came across a bunch of old 286's. they were never touched! cable ties on the power supply cords!!!!

[Lupin]

(click to show/hide)

These things even have any value?

The processor has gold pins in it if I'm not mistaken

[sdedalus83]

The socket has a little metal square in the center surrounded by the prongs then everything on top is ceramic lol

This is from 1994, so unless you mean older PC's I guess mac did things differently, as always.

(click to show/hide)

These things even have any value?

The little square is either an exposed die, or a heatspreader covering the die.

Ceramic packaging persisted into the Pentium Pro and Thunderbird Athlon days.  Via used ceramic packaging for a bit longer, switching to plastic with the C7.  Processor packaging needs to be an electrical insulator capable of handling high operating temperatures without deforming or degrading.  Intel developed plastic packaging in 1993 and first used it at a production level with the high end Pentium Pro about 3 years later.  It's lighter, less expensive to produce, and far less likely to crack under the pressure of a heatsink.

And no, it's not worth much.

[Mikan]

(click to show/hide)

These things even have any value?

The processor has gold pins in it if I'm not mistaken

Yea its gold pins.

It says this stuff on it too.

(M) XC68LC040RC33B

Q2E23G
QEXJ9424D
MALAYSIA