Discussion Forums > Anime Discussions
Are all american DVD releases so ugly?
DaggerLite:
--- Quote from: Neco on December 02, 2009, 07:17:34 PM ---I don't think its fair to compare DVD releases, which usually include dubs, or other features you might get, with a fan sub that is just a video with subtitles and doesn't have to worry about finding voice actors that are good that don't cost a fortune for their time. You may not use that feature (dubs) but it costs money to put it on the disc so it sells to the core consumers in the first place.
--- End quote ---
When the dub is too horrible to be desirable in the first place, of course it's fair to compare. And the extra features really aren't desirable. If you don't like/want the dub, then you might as well leave it out and save some money off the bat. And for extra features, I rarely see more than the creditless OP/ED and some artwork slides. There's rarely anything interesting. Sometimes, they have video commentary made themselves as the third party (not sure if this is the right term here). But that's no better than me or you making a video of us doing the same. I wish they could include original subbed extras instead.
--- Quote from: Neco on December 02, 2009, 07:17:34 PM ---People will always find a justification, or should I say rationalization..
--- End quote ---
I completely disagree with this. If you mean "Some people will...", that might be true. There's always someone that complains. Price is one important factor why many young people would continue to watch fansubs over original releases, even if the quality of the original releases was better.
However, there are many who like to buy, either to support the industry or for collection purposes, even if downloading a fansub might be easier. There are plenty of people who have morals, and understand that not everything in life is free. Think of them as seeders for a torrent. They understand that if they only leech, nothing will work out in the end.
morrefule:
I normally don't have a gripe about about american DVD releases, but I just finished watching one of my favorate Series on DVD that I just bought in Box set and that is True Tears.
I love the anime, but OMFGJC who in the world approved those Subs, I mean the thing isn't even dubbed. (which is fine by me). But when 3 characters say "おはよう" (ohayou), it is translated as Good Morning, Hello Son, and hey Shinechiro all in the span of 3 seconds. WTH!
I'm glad I understand spoken japanesse a bit to look past it and enjoy the series, but it is rediculous. I cought many others and i don't feel like typing them. I just wonder what other stupid mistakes they made in there beside the ones I picked up on. I mean come on you can at least spend a little money on the Translation, I mean they obviously didn't on the DVD menues or the dvd's them selves being as there are only 2 disk in the box. I find it a slap in the face to the anime community that they half-assed such a great series. Even someone who is a casual fan would easily pick up on these things. I mean how can you translate when a character says "Ohhh?" as "What was that?" or "hmmm" as "what?" they are obviously not right... They even missed a few lines of text. Just left it out entirely. What happened to the Editor on this and post production? Did they fall asleep or drink to many?
I guess i'll just burn the Fansubs to Disk and watch them instead... It is sad really... Because I love supporting the anime community and Anime on DVD here in the states.
Ok... that's it i'll step off my high horse now...
kenshin-dono:
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on November 29, 2009, 10:03:26 PM --- (click to show/hide)TL;DR Version: DVD subs are limited by hardware standards from 1997, and designed for readability on old CRT screens. Look at the linked screenshots below to see if all of them are like Moribito or not.
-----------------
DVD players may get newer, but unfortunately the specifications for fonts and colors remain stuck in 1997. So no options for changing color/placement, afaik. And many fonts that fansubbers freely use are copyrighted and require payment to use commercially, which is why CrunchyRoll subs are also limited in their font choices. As for the yellow colors, I heard an explanation from someone who works in the DVD subtitling field at the "World of Fansubbing" panel at Anime Central 2008. Basically, that particular saturation of yellow is a color that doesn't appear much in anime or other media. Thus it doesn't have much risk of blending into the background, especially with black borders as insurance. Personally, I don't see why yellow is inherently worse than any other color, and I'd rather have it over fansub-style white subs with one-pixel borders and no shadows that don't stand out from the background at all.
On the placement, they're placed up higher not only for overscan considerations, but also because they're easier to read that way. If they're too low (again, like most fansubs), then you constantly have to bounce your eyes down to the bottom of the screen, and risk missing out on action taking place elsewhere in the image. Really, a line of X characters at a margin of 10 takes up the exact same amount of space as the same line at a margin of 40. Imo low margins make subs more obtrusive, since you have to expend more effort scanning your vision to read them. Yes, they can be too high. But my point is, there are reasons why DVD subs are the way they are -- to make subs readable against any color of background, on any display no matter how crappy, and for a wide range of viewer eye/vision quality.
In my experience, Media-Blasters' (AKA Anime-Works) subs are higher and larger, relative to other companies' releases. For the sake of convenience, I went ahead and prepared screenshots to show off the range of styles used by different licensing companies and adaptation studios.
ADV: Old | Middle | New
AnimEigo
Bang Zoom (Geneon/Bandai - 2002-05)
Bang Zoom (Geneon/Bandai - 2006 - present) [I blame this large size for the R1 Haruhi subs sucking so badly]
Captions Inc. (Geneon/Bandai/Viz ~1998-2001)
Central Park Media (old; other titles use yellow in similar styles or the AnimEigo-type subs)
Funimation (up to 2003)
Funimation (2004-present)
Manga Entertainment
Media-Blasters/Anime-Works (before 2002 or so)
Media-Blasters/Anime-Works (~2003-2005) **note how the height of the subs is at roughly the same height where the Japanese placed the song lyrics for viewers to read**
Media-Blasters/Anime-Works (2005-present) [I would assume this style is used in Moribito]
New Generation Pictures (mostly Geneon)
Ocean Group (Bandai/Geneon)
Odex (Singapore outsourcing - Geneon/Bandai)
Rightstuf/Nozomi (up to 2004)
Rightstuf/Nozomi (2005-present)
Viz
And for Takeshi, a few examples from non-anime DVDs: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon || Star Wars Episode III
Unlike many around here, I don't see DVD-style subs as that bad. But also unlike many around here, I continue to watch everything on low-res CRT screens, which is what DVDs were made for. So that's probably why I see them differently. At the same time, I do think companies are foolish for sticking to their practices in the face of all the complaints about them. It's not like it would cost them anything in terms of money or readability to make the subtitles white instead of yellow, a little smaller, and a little lower in the image. I would suggest taking complaints to the Anime on DVD forums, as companies are more likely to listen to things posted there than on torrent sites.
--- End quote ---
jesus christ bro, tnx a lot thats an elaborate comparison
ya the one you showed here
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee336/Zalis_116/MedaBlasters_New.png
is pretty close to how moribito was, except moribito seemed even a bit higher! Look how big and ugly that is and how distracting? yeesh. No wonder i switched to dub. Luckily the dubs not too bad in this series.
i have no idea why theyre still using specs from the early 90s if what you say is true, thats just idiotic. Why isn't it smaller and cleaner? And give people font color options. Really, bright yellow is just ugly and distracting. Your explination that it doesn't bleed into backrounds as much because of its color and boarder makes sense i guess but that also makes it espeically ugly and really distracting. I actually prefer thin boardered whitish colors like you say you dislike lol. Most TV's these days have high enough rez where that shouldn't matter.
basically it sounds like theyre so big, yellow, ugly and HIGH, to cater to the lowest common denominator of displays which really sucks. Making it crappier for everyone to cater to people still using cruddy old SD tvs
This is just very disapointing to me. I support the industry and have a pretty big collection but generally hate most subtitles, Moribito was especially bad. Its looking like all media works DVD's are going to flat out suck, i'll probably just pass on any of their other stuff. Honestly not too many look decent from your links. Funmation actually looks like one of the better ones o_O These companies really aren't making much of a case for people to buy their DVDs when the fansubs are higher res, and have MUCH better subs
*sigh* im worried about hitting more of this backlog of DVD's i bought to play catch up
Oh and i disagree with the guy thats all for getting rid of disks all together. Im actually NOT a fan of digital downloads. I enjoy having a physical copy of my stuff. Data gets corrupted, stuff happens. If you take care of your media it lasts a long time. I.e. My NES cartriges would be long gone if they were just data on a HD back when i got them. I never buy DLC for games
I dont see BD/DVD's going anywhere anytime soon, theres a LOOTT of people who feel like i do. Actually i dont see DVD's going anywhere anytime soon. BD's are still pretty expensive and especially for anime most stuff is still only on DVD. Very little BD out there for anime
kenshin-dono:
christ lotta posts since i made this. Been away for thanksgiving/bday, and been playing a lot of Dragon age heh
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on December 02, 2009, 07:47:47 AM --- I know it's not a serious question, but... unlike yellow, lime green and orange would have a fair chance of blending into backgrounds and becoming unreadable, fansub-style. And what about the screenshots of subs that were *shock* white and not yellow? Given that Funimation dominates the current R1 market, the majority of subs on new releases will be white. Or does a completely neutral color like white burn people's eyes out, too?
I can understand the aliasing and resolution issues that people have with vobsubs, but I've never understood the virulent hatred for yellow as a color as opposed to other colors. I don't see how yellow is "old" either; I'm pretty sure all the other colors have been around just as long. I'm half-convinced it's got more to do with not wanting to pay for anime than an honest objection to the color. After all, I haven't seen one complaint about gg's Nyan Koi using a similar color. Granted, that's a pretty new release that many haven't seen, but I also haven't seen that many complaints about BOX-Subs' or Anime-Classics' releases that use similar color schemes. Or for that matter, AIP's Rizelmine, which is practically R1DVD-subs in a fansub.
--- End quote ---
question: it was mentioned a few times in this thread but what are VOsubs?
i certainly prefer white. You dont understand why people hate yellow? Its very simple. Its friggin hidious and very distracting. I want my subs to be low key and unobrusive. A giant neaon yellow font a quarter of the friggin way up the screen is as far away from that as possible. Its 'old' because its the old style you saw a lot back in the day.
i dont view it as an excuse to not buy dvds by pirates at all, its a legitimate complaint. I WANT to buy dvds, i prefer them to having something on my HD and like suporting the industry, but when theyre as horrible as this
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee336/Zalis_116/MedaBlasters_New.png
i have to seriously consider just sticking with the fansub
and that link you provide for nyan koi may be yellow but its much better than most american DVD subs. First of all its not super bright neon yellow! its a lower key duller color that doesn't slap you in the face, and second the text is lower in frame and not blocking half the screen!
@daggerlite
Im not sure about the newer DVD releases, like i said i bought a bunch and am going through them now but the older stuff had some kinda neat little extras usually. I did notice moribito didn't look visually that good. It only had like 3 epps on it too i think which makes no sense. I saw what almost looked like interlacing issues o_O Overall horribly disappointed with Mediablasters im hoping the other groups aren't as bad. I remember ordering spice and wolf season 1. Luckily thats Funmation. Im not a fan of them monopolizing the industry, but if all the other companies are this terrible then maybe its not so bad. Im not planning on buying anymore Media blasters stuff. I'll have to look over the screenshots closely that zalis posted to see if any others are REALLY bad (most were but not as bad as MB)
As far as dubs go, they have never been very good and probably never will be. Occasionaly you get a good one, like bebop, but the vast majority are just terrible. They either dont use professionals or the professionals pretty much suck, and they reuse the same few people over and over again. Ive heard the guy that does Ichigo in bleach about a kajilion times in various video games lately im willing to bed he does tons of dubs in anime as well
anyone know of any other companies that are especially bad, or others that actually have good subs? I gotta check out clannad but its not even dubbed i think, so id assume the subs are good.
--- Quote from: Mag-X on December 02, 2009, 12:43:39 PM ---I haven't even thought about purchasing any DVDs in quite a long time. If they want me to pay for something, it needs to be better than the free version, not worse.
--- End quote ---
This is my exact feeling. If they want me to pay for this it needs to be better than the free version.. thats not seeming to be the case lately.
this may be my new policy very soon if many more of the DVDs i have to go through are as bad as this Media blaster garbage. Which is really too bad because i want to support those that bring this stuff over.. theyre just doing such a poor job it seems that im not sure why im bothering.
Im glancing at my 'to watch' shelf of stuff i bought right before i stopped watching anime, and recently. This is the backlog of stuff i have yet to see:
Utawarerumono, Samurai gun, Black cat, Basalisk, Trinity blood, Melody of Oblivion, Mushishi, Best student council, Elfen lied, full metal panic second raid, Infinite ryu virus, moon phase, Hellgirl, Blue seed, Fantastic children, samurai horror tales, Tsukihime, Noein, Desert punk, Tide blue line, Daphne in the brilliant blue, Sola, Clannad, Jubei-chan 2, Ikkitousen, black heaven, All purpouse cat girl Nukku Nukku, Divergence Eve, 009-1
some on the 'to watch shelf' that i had seen in the past and had on VHS or fansub format but snagged on DVD anyway:
Madlax, Scrapped princess, Argento Soma, Haibane Renmei, Full metal panic/FMP fumufu, Chrono Crusade, E's otherwise, Getbackers, Gantz, Nadesico, Mahoromatic
thats not including the other shelves of DVDs i had on fansub in the past and replaced, thats just the stuff i have yet to watch in the above categories.
so i defiantly support the industy, though if many of those dvds listed above turn out to have god awful subs i may just say F it and stick to fansubs unfortunately =(
unfortunately i just ordered midori no hibi and something else i cant remember which is media blasters.. damn
lol i have a couple boxes of oldschool fansubs. You know back when you had to get mail order VHS tapes? Heh I have end of evengelion on that.
--- Quote from: Neco on December 02, 2009, 07:17:34 PM ---It's not that simple though.
The industry is entirely at fault for the state of things, there is no argument there. They set up lackluster standards and failed to continue raising the bar. But you cannot compete against free, no matter how good your product is. People will always find a justification, or should I say rationalization..
*snip*
--- End quote ---
yes there are a lot of people out there that will view free as best no matter what. But there are people out there that really want to support the industry, and these companies are making it very difficult with such a shoddy ass product. When some of the stuff i see would be on the bottom tier of ADB ratings im concerned.
Neco:
Regarding dubs or other perks "not being wanted" that is your preference as a consumer, and it ends there. You cannot compare a fansub which exactly catered to your tastes, to a retail dubbed / subbed product as a whole, which is marketed to a decidedly different mainstream crowd than your own tastes. I mean its one thing if I were reading constant comparissons to the subtitle tracks between fansubs, and I have seen that on ocassion. But most of what I continue to see around the net is the same "omg dubz suck go get the fansub at least they have accurate dialogue" etc.. But I've no intention of starting up the whole "translator's job" debate.
Now you can lambast them for poor subs all day long, however I never see (or hear of) anyone actually trying to send a message to these companies or at least try and start a feedback dialogue. Usually it has to be the companies that do this it seems, with the whole focus group thing and what not, but sometimes the consumer has to step up too. Consumers have rights of what to expect from a product, yet when it comes to enforcing those rights they often get lazy all of a sudden and expect the company to magically know what to change about a product, or Ralph Nader to show up dressed as Superman and demand certain changes. It just won't happen though.
One side is going to have to force the other to meet with them if this is ever going to change. The Anime industry in America could probably barely be called an industry at all. I don't know, maybe I just like playing Devil's Advocate or something. I just don't see either side doing anything to actually bring an end to the problem of poor quality dubs and subs.
You can either sweet-talk your way into the corporate communications office (or whatever) of these publishers with thousands of hand signed petitions, or you can try and force their hand with an organized boycott... But we all know how boycotts usually turn out when organized by idealists...
I don't know.. Maybe I'll just write a letter so I can at least claim I did something ???
I'm as frustrated as everyone else.. Do you know what being a fence sitter does to your nerves? ;)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version